1 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Cura and welcome to Shed Lunch, brought to you by Cheesy's. 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm Helen Mattison. Today we look at the perspective of 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: the UK's fastest growing energy supplier, Octopus Energy. We ask 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: what in roads has Octopus made since it's been here 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: in New Zealand, does the electricity sector allow for fresh 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: competition and how much will technical innovation helps solve our 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: power problems. In a moment, I'll be joined by Octopus 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: Energies Chief operating Officer, Margaret Cooney. But before we get started, 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: here's some important information. 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 2: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 2: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: Everything you're about to see and here is current at 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 2: the time of recording. 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: Welcome Margaret, love you to have you in the studio. 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: Now, before we dive into who Octopus it and what 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: you're doing here in New Zealand, let's look at your 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: background from what I can gather. For about twenty years 20 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: now or probably more, you've been in the energy sector 21 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: and various guys. As I think you started off as 22 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: an analyst in the market and regulatory scene. You've worked 23 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: for Meridian, Powershop Electric, I think you consulted for in 24 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: the like and obviously a big stunt in the UK. 25 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: What is it that fascinates you about the electricity sector 26 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: or the energy sector. 27 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 3: Look, I think that electricity sector is really interesting and 28 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: obviously underpins our economy, so I think that's you know, 29 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 3: that's important to me that it's a really well functioning sector. 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: But also we're in this phase of significant change, so 31 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 3: the economics of energy are changing significantly. The need to 32 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 3: decarbonize our economy is really important, and I think it's 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 3: a fantastic growth opportunity. So it's a really interesting sector 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 3: to be a part of, and I feel really fortunate 35 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 3: that I've had some amazing opportunities in the sector. So, 36 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 3: you know, early on in my career I was involved 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,559 Speaker 3: in setting up power Shop, which was a very innovative 38 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 3: company and really bought the benefits of smart meters that 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: have just been put into many New Zealand homes, brought 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 3: those benefits through to consumers for the first time. But 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: I think that early experience of doing things differently, of 42 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 3: driving change, you know, that's something I've tried to continue 43 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 3: in my career as well. So that leads us to Octopus. 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: So give us an idea of how long you've been 45 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: here and really what's your point of difference. 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, so Octopus has been in the New Zealand market 47 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 3: since twenty twenty. We initially set up here to service 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: a bunch of technology projects in the APEC region. So 49 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 3: we've actually we've got a team of about one hundred 50 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: and fifty in New Zealand and the vast majority of 51 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 3: them don't work on anything to do with New Zealand. 52 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: They're actually providing support to our operations globally. Or there's 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 3: a team KRACKN that's increasingly separate from Octopus now who 54 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 3: are helping transform energy businesses in the APAC region. Some 55 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 3: of them are working on the Meridian project close to home. 56 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 3: So yeah, we have a few things going on. We 57 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: have a small retail business as well of seven thousand customers. 58 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: We would love to grow that, but we've been very 59 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 3: clear that the current market settings don't work for us 60 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: to grow that. So it's been experimental, I guess today. 61 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: So we look at the backers of the company to 62 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: it's a private company. The parent being obviously in the UK, 63 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: you've got some big backers like Origin Energy, which is 64 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: out of Australia. There did You've got Tokyo Gas, who 65 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: I think you're working with to deploy octopercentergy in Japan? 66 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: Is that right? 67 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. We've got a joint venture with Tokyo 68 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: Gas in Japan. Their market got liberalized a few years back, 69 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 3: and so we've got entrant retailer that we're doing with them, 70 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 3: and then we've got our technology going into the rest 71 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: of the Tokyo Gas business as well. 72 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: So let's look at krack and then, because that is 73 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: what you're famous for, what does it do? You know 74 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: for the lay person? You know what's so amazing about it? 75 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 3: Look, I think one of the big benefits of Kraken 76 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: is that it's modern, a modern technology stack, and there's 77 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 3: accessible data and the platform is very user friendly. So 78 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 3: it's the combination of those things that allow retail businesses 79 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: to operate more efficiently but also develop new products. So, 80 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 3: you know, we're all familiar with electricity as kind of 81 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 3: bills ending up in your email or in the post, 82 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: but increasingly there's this opportunity to help consumers shift their 83 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 3: demand around and drive down the cost of energy for 84 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: those consumers. And in order to be able to offer 85 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 3: those types of products, you need a level of sophistication 86 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 3: in terms of your technology stack. You need deep data 87 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 3: and you need tools that allow you to offer that 88 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 3: in consumer ways of engaging and ways of managing their 89 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: devices within the home. And that's really what Kraken underpins. 90 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: And if we look at cracking in terms of its competitors, 91 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: the technology I'm talking here, I mean it's the likes 92 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: of gen Track, who also work with energy companies and 93 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: utilities for the smart. 94 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 3: Tech that's right. Gen Track are called SAP. All of 95 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 3: these big big names are the competitors for krackin so 96 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 3: cracking is really a B to B products. So Kraken 97 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 3: is sold to large utilities around the world. So the 98 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 3: likes of edf or as you mentioned, Origin Energy in 99 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: Australia er gone in Australia, So that's a product that 100 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: helps them operate their their retail business really smartly. For 101 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 3: us as an electricity retailer, there's an opportunity to use 102 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 3: that platform to deliver really innovative products. 103 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: And if you look at the percentages of where the 104 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: focuses for the business I mean, is the B to 105 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: B are much bigger part than says you see, the 106 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: retail is quite small. 107 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 3: So globally, Kraken is increasingly becoming separate from the Octopus 108 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 3: Energy operations, and that's really because we're serving so many 109 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: of our competitors through that technology licensing. But they're both 110 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 3: really significant businesses in their own right. And Octopus Energy 111 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: as a retail supplier supplies over about over eleven and 112 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 3: a half million consumers around the globe. So we've got 113 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 3: retail businesses in the UK, in most of Western Europe, 114 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 3: the Japanese one which you mentioned, the US, and our 115 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 3: seven thousand very important customers in New Zealand. What about Australia, No, 116 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: we don't have a retail business in Australia. 117 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: What about generation assets because obviously the competition here eighty 118 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: five percent I think are the big four if you like, Contact, Genesis, 119 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: Rominian Mercury, they've got kind of the line's share of 120 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: the market and they are they've got the generation assets 121 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: as well as the retail arm Would I know you've 122 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: gotneration assets in other parts of the world. Would Octopus 123 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: consider that here? 124 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: Look the New Zealand market is in the scope of 125 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 3: the funds that we have for investing in new generations, 126 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 3: so it's a possibility. Again, we've signaled to government and 127 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 3: regulators that the current market settings don't work well for 128 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: independent players, and so you know, we've got lots of 129 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: great opportunities around the globe, but today New Zealand hasn't 130 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 3: been a priority. As a New Zealander, I would love 131 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: it to be a priority, and I'm forever sending my 132 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 3: UK colleagues different projects and things that they can invest in. 133 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 3: But I think i'm you know, one of the things 134 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: I'm hoping that government does is part of this package 135 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 3: of reforms that they're looking at, is think about how 136 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 3: they can mobilize all that investment and know how from 137 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 3: companies overseas to come into the New Zealand market. 138 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: Before we dive into the dynamics of the market and 139 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: what's happening at the moment, perhaps if you can give 140 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: us an idea of what you think the demand is 141 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: for electricity, I mean the likes of data centers and worldwide, 142 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: not just New Zealand. You know, it just seems like 143 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: we need more and more. But what sort of stats 144 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: can you offer for that. 145 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the global picture is quite interesting. So globally 146 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 3: we've traditionally growing energy electricity demand by about two and 147 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 3: a half percent per anim but over the past year 148 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: that's really tipped up, so it's almost double that in 149 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: a year. 150 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: AI. 151 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 3: It's a combination of a few things, So AI is 152 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 3: definitely a driver, but also the cost of solar and 153 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 3: the access to that, particularly in emerging economies, has driven 154 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 3: rapid electrification in India. And then China is going gangbusters 155 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 3: on electrifying and you know, is really an electro state 156 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 3: now and a real pioneer of you know, rapid deployment 157 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 3: of renewables. And also they manufacture so much of the 158 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: of the products that go across the electricity supply chain 159 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 3: as well. So the global picture for electricity is growth. 160 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 3: The New Zealand picture is more complicated. So, you know, 161 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 3: most listeners will have been aware that over the past 162 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: year we've had significant struggles in terms of security of supply, 163 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 3: but on top of that, we've had really high prices 164 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 3: since really about twenty eighteen they kicked up and as 165 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: a result of that, you know, we've had quite flat demand. 166 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 3: So and even last year it declined because we were 167 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 3: asking large consumers to curtail their usage, but I think 168 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 3: we should be more optimistic about the about what future 169 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 3: the future, and you know that if we can build 170 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 3: enough generation to service the demand, then you know we 171 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 3: should be realizing a significant increase in it. So we 172 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: already know that there there's you know, between half a 173 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 3: gig and a gig depends who you talk to. With 174 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: the data centers sitting there to be built before twenty thirty, 175 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 3: so that's pretty soon. So when you think if we've 176 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 3: got that much data center load, then in terms of 177 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 3: the new renewables to match off, we need you know, 178 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: if it's just a they're all an exact match, but 179 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 3: if it's wind and solar, then we need about you know, 180 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 3: four times the capacity of whatever's coming on to be built. 181 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 3: So there's the opportunity to realize those that growth from 182 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 3: data centers. We will continue to get some increase from 183 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: the residential space, and that will be driven by the 184 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: rate of house builds. So we see, you know, every 185 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 3: house that gets built that will edge consumption and the 186 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 3: rate at which they electrified their transport. So yeah, if 187 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 3: you buy an EV that will add kind of twenty 188 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 3: to thirty percent more consumption onto your household. So I 189 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 3: think if we get the clean car discount back that yeah, 190 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 3: we saw that that when that discount was in place, 191 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: we did see the rapid more rapid adoption of vbs, 192 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 3: but that's really Plata's recently and I think also the 193 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 3: economic climate impacts that. And the other thing is we're 194 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 3: also saying that many households are quite cost constraints conscious, 195 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 3: so actual residential consumption on averages is pretty flat, but 196 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 3: it's that new build that's adding to the system as well. 197 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: So Margaret, on a world scale, then how progressive actually 198 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: is New Zealand when it comes to electrifying and putting 199 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: money into renewable energy generation. 200 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 3: So if we look at the performance over the last decade, 201 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 3: you know, New Zealand we've added on a per capita basis, 202 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 3: so probably max about forty fifty watts per person. In contrast, 203 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: Australia is about four times that. In contrast, again, China 204 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: is probably about ten times that. Almost five hundred watts 205 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 3: was in the last year alone. So we've been very 206 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 3: modest in the way that we've scaled our system and 207 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 3: I think that's our immediate challenge is really getting that 208 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 3: uptick and new supply the. 209 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: Un residential though, I mean, are we a place in 210 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: the world where if it's data centers all the like, 211 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: where you know, we could be seen as somewhere where 212 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: we could generate electricity and pass it on beyond our 213 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: shores sort of thing. Yeah. 214 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 3: Look, I think the other thing I should have mentioned 215 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 3: is obviously we've got this need to electrify industry that's 216 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 3: currently using gas, and that's a really immediate need. So 217 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 3: if you think about many of those large gas users 218 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 3: like Fonterra or others, they've got a massive shift that 219 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 3: they need to do very quickly in terms of New 220 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 3: Zealand being an appealing place to come and set up. Look, 221 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: I think the Minister of Finance has talked about, you know, 222 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 3: one of the most common complaints she has is the 223 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: price of it in New Zealand and that that has 224 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: been prohibitive in recent years. But when we look at 225 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: the cost of building new electricity generation, actually we should 226 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 3: have some confidence that we should go after these opportunities 227 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 3: and really our challenges getting ourselves into a position that 228 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 3: we're building ahead of the ahead of the demand, so 229 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 3: that we don't have the crazy prices that we have had. 230 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: Okay, let's look at the sector at the moment. We've 231 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: got two reviews, a sort of parallel if you like. 232 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: I think one of them is worth the Minister for 233 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: Energy that was done by Frontier Economics, and that was 234 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: focusing on the whole sector really in many things. And 235 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: then obviously the Electricity Authority and the Commerce Commission have 236 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: been looking probably more at competition and whether or not 237 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: the big four, the four Gen tailors really have a 238 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: sort of a dominance that they make it a bit 239 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: un fear. Are you hopeful that there will be some 240 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: change with I mean, we've had reviews before and many 241 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: of them. 242 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 3: Look, we're starting to see some change come through from 243 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 3: the regulator. So we had some announcements last week about changes, 244 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 3: which we think, you know, they're just announcements of consultation 245 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 3: at the moment, so I'm lied to kind of put 246 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: too much stock in them until we've seen the detail. Yes, 247 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 3: but they signal. The signal is really positive. You know, 248 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: we've had real problems with the contracts market that actually 249 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 3: underpins the trading between the big gen tailors and between 250 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 3: independent players and large industrial consumers. That has not worked 251 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 3: well and that's probably not a surprise when we've got 252 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: so much vertical integration and such moments in the sector. 253 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 3: But you know, it has been frustrating that these these 254 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 3: are kind of well flagged issues, they're not new, but 255 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: the regulatory response has been too slow. But you know, 256 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: the electricity authorities moving at pace now and I think 257 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 3: our job is to work with them to try and 258 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 3: make those rules as effective as possible. The frontier review, 259 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 3: we're all yes, yet to know what's in there. We've 260 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 3: you know, heard different snippets about, you know, this idea 261 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 3: of thermal co or nationalizing some of the thermal assets. 262 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 3: I think, though, you know, the priority needs to be 263 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 3: on how can we get out of this current build 264 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 3: after the demanding you know, we need to break that cycle. 265 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 3: But also I think I think generally the sector has 266 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 3: been resting too much on its laurels and been quite 267 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: complacent about a deteriorating situation. So there will no doubt 268 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 3: be some well, I think there needs to be some 269 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: changes in there around the governance of this of the 270 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 3: industry and the monitoring of security of supply, because very 271 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: scarily in a dry yet last year we got down 272 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 3: to days of coal stock file left and for such 273 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 3: a critical industry, you know, we can't. We can't run 274 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 3: it like this. We need to be making sure that 275 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 3: we have that downside risk covered because that's what ultimately 276 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 3: costs New Zealand businesses so much, either in the price 277 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 3: that that that risk translates to in terms of higher 278 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 3: prices in the market or having to down their production, 279 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 3: which you know, it's bad if we don't. If we 280 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 3: can't make stuff and ship stuff, we can't earn money 281 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 3: to build the hospitals and roads and things that we 282 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 3: need in New Zealand. What do you think of. 283 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: The four gen tailors have got together and sort of 284 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: a backup, if you like, with coal through Genesis and 285 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: they're thinking about they would have an agreement whereby there 286 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: would be a backup using coal and it's got to 287 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: have Commerce Commission approval and the like, but would supposedly 288 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: open the door for retailers like yourselves to have access 289 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: to something like that too. 290 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 3: Keeping the generation in market is really important because we 291 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 3: absolutely need it, you mean coal that well. Keeping that 292 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 3: hunting plant plan in market is really critical because we're 293 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 3: losing all the gas generation that we have had, so 294 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 3: we just can't afford to lose it. It's obviously not 295 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: ideal that it's coal, but you know, we've got to 296 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 3: be pragmatic about these things. I think our preference would 297 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 3: be for an arrangement that was more accessible for people, 298 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 3: but I think we'll wait to see what the details 299 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 3: of that are because there's limited transparency over those around 300 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 3: those arrangements at the moment, so it's actually quite hard 301 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 3: to comment on whether they're good or bad. But I 302 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: think there is a comment to be made around the 303 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 3: suggestions that contracting will happen off the back of it. 304 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 3: What we've seen previously is actually there's been ongoing issues 305 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 3: around that contracting and continuous refusals to supply. So I 306 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 3: think as part of the Commerce Commissions approval of that, 307 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 3: assuming that happens, that they should be putting a conditions 308 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 3: on it, that there's a commitment around the volume of 309 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 3: trading that happens off the back of these arrangements, because 310 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 3: I think, you know, otherwise it's a hollow promise that 311 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 3: based on previous behavior hasn't borne out. 312 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: So do you mean that like at the moment, as 313 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: a generation retailer, you can it would appear. I don't 314 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: know if this is actually how it happens, but they 315 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: would be able to sort of favor their own retail arm. 316 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 3: That plus, as some of the work from the electricity 317 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 3: authority has picked up, there's been an ongoing issue of 318 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: just refusal to supply, so refusal to engage in contracting, 319 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 3: and very very low volumes of trading. So those are 320 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 3: some of the problems that make it really unsustainable for 321 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 3: independent generators and retailers to come into the market because 322 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 3: you need a level of liquidity in the market to 323 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 3: to make things work effectively to met Just still. 324 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: On the independent retailer generator or retailer question, I mean 325 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: a lot of commentators, particularly Obseas, talk about New Zealand 326 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: having about fifty Is that actually right? I mean, is 327 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: that the amount of choice that consumers. 328 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 3: Really do have? No, it's not. It's I mean, there's 329 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 3: fifty registered on the yahah, but like some of them 330 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 3: are random people or you know, it might be a 331 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 3: local airport that's just covering the shops in that airport. 332 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 3: So I think there's the if you look at the 333 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 3: level of available offers to consumers, that's actually declined significantly 334 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 3: over recent years. So we've had we've you know, we've 335 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 3: got about eighty seven percent of the retail market concentrated 336 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 3: in the Big four. We've had Flick going to Meridian Edge. 337 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 3: We've had Energy Club got sucked up a few years ago, 338 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 3: We've had Ecotricity acquired by Genesis. There's there's increasing contraction 339 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 3: concentration and less options available for consumers as a result. 340 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 3: And I think you that that bears out in the 341 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 3: data around the offers available to consumers and how innovative 342 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 3: they are or not. And also, you know, we have 343 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 3: seen that when when independent retailers come out of market, 344 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 3: like last year when Electric Key we stopped accepting customers immediately, 345 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 3: there was actually quite a significant increase in the prices 346 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 3: from the Big four that were on power Switch. So 347 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 3: I think there's a really important dynamic that that independent 348 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 3: competition introduces that is around price, but it's also around 349 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 3: the innovation that delivers lower cost for consumers. So that 350 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 3: would be things like if you look at the independence 351 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 3: the pioneering things like hour of power, the use of 352 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 3: hot water control, time of use, tariffs, each of these 353 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 3: can actually deliver material savings to the end consumer. And 354 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 3: we want to we want that dynamic to continue because 355 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 3: one of the biggest opportunities we have in driving down 356 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 3: the cost of energy for end consumers is actually engaging 357 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 3: that demand side more smartly, so that ability to if 358 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 3: you think about your energy usage, there's probably about sixty 359 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 3: percent of it that can be shifted to any time 360 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 3: of day without it interrupting your lifestyle, and that at 361 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: the moment that doesn't happen, and it's how do we 362 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 3: make that happen, Because if we could shift that into 363 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 3: the times when we've got like an abundance of wind 364 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 3: and prices are lower, it allows us both to reduce 365 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 3: the cost of your bill is a household, but also 366 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 3: it will help us accelerate the rate at which we 367 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,239 Speaker 3: bring renewables into the energy system. And equally, you know, 368 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 3: a lot of the cost for consumers will be driven 369 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 3: from how much lines capacity we need to build. And 370 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 3: if we can do things like avoid charging our vehicles 371 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: at peak, this will stop us having to invest significantly 372 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 3: in really expensive poles and wires and transformers and things. 373 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 3: It will mean that we can use the existing infrastructure 374 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 3: much more smartly. So that's part of the role of 375 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 3: retailers is to bring more dynamicism in the way that 376 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 3: doesn't put the burden on consumers in terms of mental overhead, 377 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 3: but just makes it easier for them. 378 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: Is that not happening now? Then surely there is innovation 379 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: going on. Given the competition even between the four dentators 380 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: for example. 381 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 3: It's been limited. So as a result, we've seen that 382 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 3: the electricity authorities actually regulated the large four to require 383 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 3: them to offer time abuse tariffs. And you know they're 384 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 3: not all the same, so some of them were quick 385 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 3: to embrace things like hot water others that's taken them 386 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:45,239 Speaker 3: four years to enable that for consumers, and speaking as 387 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 3: a retailer, that's not a hard thing to enable. 388 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: Just thinking too, then of investors here, given that that's 389 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: our audience and the situation at the moment, I mean, 390 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: there's a lot of enthusiasm about investing in energy. As 391 00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: you said it, you know, it's kind of the corners 392 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: own of our lives and the economy to some degree. 393 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: What would you say to retail investors when they're faced 394 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: with the situation we have now there's a lot of 395 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: change probably about to happen, or who knows really what 396 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: what that will end up being. But if they're looking 397 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: our investors particularly, I really can on innovation and tech 398 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: and you know, what would you say to them about 399 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: thinking about where they put their money in terms of 400 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: the sectors. I mean it's apart from some of the 401 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: listed entities, is probably not that many avenues for them. 402 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because the way our electricity system works 403 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 3: ultimately impacts so many of the companies that your investors 404 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 3: will be investing in. So whether it's you know, the 405 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 3: refrigeration at Mainfrage, or the production costs for milk powder, 406 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 3: the age two cells, or you know, the list goes on, 407 00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 3: is such a fundamental ingredient. I think you know, as 408 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: as investors, you have influence over these boards. So it's 409 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 3: making sure that we're doing the right thing in terms 410 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 3: of the New Zealand economy and building out the electricity sector. 411 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 3: I think, you know, the fundamentals mean that it's a 412 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 3: sector that will continue to grow ultimately, and you know, 413 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 3: we should have confidence that would all be better off 414 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 3: by having a larger electricity market and system and more 415 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 3: diversity within that market. What about the. 416 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: Risks there's always risks with investment, I mean, particularly in 417 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: the energy sector. 418 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 3: I think the risks in the electricity sector at the 419 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 3: moment the biggest risk we have is continued de industrialization. 420 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 3: That's not good for anyone, and that's the current trajectory 421 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,959 Speaker 3: we're on. So I look at the opportunity for change, 422 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: as you know, fundamentally it should add to the possibilities 423 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 3: for growth in the sector if we get the settings right. 424 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: What would be getting the settings right for Octopus to 425 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: thrive and be a larger player, if you like, almost 426 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: significant player in New Zealand. 427 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. So in terms of what I think the New 428 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 3: Zealand needs to focus on, it's one we need a strategy, 429 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 3: you know, we should unlike many countries in the world, 430 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 3: the economics of electrication should work for end consumers. So 431 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 3: we don't have cheap fossil fuel here. We import huge 432 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 3: amounts of fuel and the more quickly we can displace that, 433 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 3: the more money we have in our wallets, and the 434 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 3: more competitive we should be. So we should be really 435 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 3: focused on making that change happen quickly. I think what 436 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 3: we've seen over the past, well over this decade, is 437 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 3: that you know, investors in large infrastructure and naturally conservative 438 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 3: because they've got large assets, you know, and that is legitimate. 439 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 3: How do we motivate them and incentivize them to invest 440 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 3: ahead of demand, and we've seen other countries have put 441 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 3: in place mechanisms to encourage that demand to come, that 442 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 3: supply to come ahead of demand. So I think long 443 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: term contracting arrangements, all of these types of things should 444 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 3: be considered for New Zealand. I think then there's a 445 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 3: question around how that market is working, and I think 446 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 3: some of what the Electricity Authority is working on at 447 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 3: the moment should hopefully address that. And then we do 448 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 3: need just better governance of the sector and coordination, especially 449 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 3: at the moment because we've got a really complicated situation 450 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 3: of fast declining gas and need to help those industries 451 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 3: exposed switch quickly into electricity, and the need to immediately 452 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 3: scale electricity. So I think, you know, there's only so 453 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 3: much different actors in the market can do to resolve that, 454 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 3: but it actually requires a bit of facilitation from government. 455 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 3: You know, if we were head confidence about the market 456 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: settings and the ability to grow with be more of 457 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: a mass market player. And we've got some great products 458 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: that we no have appeal with the general customer. We've 459 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 3: seen the success of them in other markets and are 460 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 3: excited about the potential to offer better choice to New 461 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 3: Zealand consumers. 462 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: What's an example of one of those innovative products. 463 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've got we've got one of these news 464 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 3: land as well, so a zero bell home. So we 465 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 3: are working with property developers in the UK. Basically the 466 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 3: cheapest time to put much of this technology into homes 467 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 3: is when they're getting built. But you get this incentive issue, 468 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 3: like if a property developers building homes, they're really cost conscious, 469 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 3: and how do we incentivize those builders to build homes 470 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 3: that are more energy smart? And so what we've done 471 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 3: is we've provided a five year guarantee that if a 472 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 3: new home is built and it meets a bunch of 473 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 3: criteria so it's got solar and battery and heat pumps, 474 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 3: that we can give a guarantee that we would there 475 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 3: will be no bill for that house for five years. 476 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 3: Obviously assumes normal consumption, but no bitcoin miners in these properties. 477 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,959 Speaker 3: But you know, that is a really compelling proposition and 478 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 3: it's a fantastic one for social housing developers and things. 479 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 3: So we've been doing lots of these in the UK. 480 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 3: We're working with a bunch of property developers here around 481 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 3: the concept. It always takes quite long, yeah, you know, 482 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 3: go from concept of building properties. But that's an example 483 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 3: where we think, you know, a simple solution that delivers 484 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 3: great outcomes for the consumer. Another one is where we 485 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 3: have a product called Intelligent Octopus. We have actually about 486 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 3: ten percent of the UK's EV fleet and managed using 487 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 3: this product, and basically it helps if you on your 488 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 3: app use sele I need my car by X time 489 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 3: in the morning, and then we will determine when that 490 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 3: car is charged based on what's happening in the market 491 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 3: and deliver you a much lower price and return for 492 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 3: having control over charging it. And really excitingly, we're starting 493 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 3: to see vehicle to grid capable cars come into the 494 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 3: market at quite accessible price point. So then you imagine 495 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 3: that functionality with the ability to export into the grid, 496 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 3: the energy market starts looking quite different. It would only 497 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 3: take tens of thousands of these vehicles to totally nail 498 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 3: the peak problem that we have. So I think there's 499 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 3: these really exciting opportunities to use technology more smartly and 500 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 3: that will hopefully lower the cost of supply for all 501 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 3: of us. 502 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: Well, great chat, Margaret. We could go for hours, but 503 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: we'll leave it there. Thank you for coming in. Thanks 504 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: so much for having me. Really enjoyed talking to you 505 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: and thanks everyone for tuning in. You can watch shed 506 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: Lunch on YouTube or follow us on your favorite podcast app, 507 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: leave us a race sting, or tell us what you'd 508 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: like to hear next. Matowa mm hmm