WEBVTT - Why thousands of NZ nurses are striking this week 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:05.840 Kiyota. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.000 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:16.600 daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. More than 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:22.520 thirty six thousand Nurses Organization members nationwide went on strike 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.680 yesterday and they will walk off the job again tomorrow. 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:31.720 Health New Zealand says the action could disrupt treatment services 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.559 and care over the entire week, especially for patients with 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:39.880 non urgent needs. It's while the Health Minister, Simeon Brown 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:44.280 has criticized the strikes, saying they'll disrupt more than thirteen 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:49.199 thousand surgeries and appointments, all this after a year of 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:54.200 deadlocked negotiations between the union and Health end Z. Today, 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.720 on the Front Page, union delegate and healthcare assistant at 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.760 christ Church Hospital, our deech joins us to tell us 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:09.840 what it's like on the ground and at the picket line. So, 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:14.800 first off, ou tell me why have nurses decided to 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:15.600 go on strike? 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.520 Okay, so nurses, midwives and HCAs that are insident members 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:26.160 are striking essentially because our health system has completely overwhelmed 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:33.040 staffing levels, an atrocious state and short staffing is yeah, 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:35.760 it's chronic. It's been ongoing for quite some time and 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.400 We've just had enough of it. We're tired Christish Hospital 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.080 where our work over the weekend has been in code black. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.800 The hospital is bursting at the seams and wards are 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.040 working chronically understaffed, day in, day out, and people have 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.280 had enough. I'm on the bargaining team with insident. I 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.800 know we've been in bargaining now for since September last year, 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:02.600 so roughly a year. And if that's order have failed 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.480 to address any of our key claims. 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.320 I mean, this isn't the first time we've spoken about 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.200 understaffing issues. Why hasn't been anything been done? 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:11.919 Well? 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.919 I think you know, well, I guess the main reason 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:15.480 is funding. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.800 You know, we have we have a government that's looking 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.360 at you know that is underfunded health. It's been an 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:25.920 ongoing issue for quite some time from successive governments. This 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.960 government is interested in in you know, sterity measures and 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:32.720 cuts and that have impacted the front. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.280 Line and health. And it's it's all around budgets. 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.040 It's all around sort of how much to spend, and 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.840 so it's not addressing what is fundamental, which is having 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.519 enough staff to give the care that we want to give. 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.600 Health New Zealand says that the shift below target or 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:55.680 the SBT data is a moment in time measure and 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.400 not a reliable indicator of understaffing. Now, first off, can 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.520 you ex explained to me what that data shows and 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.239 how do you respond to that? Reasoning from health en 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:06.040 Z I. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:10.600 Mean c CDM or care capacity demand management as a 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:15.080 tool through trenk care that measures the acuity of patients 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.520 and determines the number of staff that are needed on 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:23.120 any particular shift. The nursing stuff input into that data 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.080 ongoing throughout the shift, so it's not like a once office. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.720 It's a continuous process and that that is calculated and 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:35.800 measures through f FDA calculations how many staff were short. 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:41.040 You know, previously the up until their hiring freeze, FDA 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:46.080 calculations have provided uplifts and staffing in many many areas 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.160 because of the of the reason that. 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.200 It's shown that we're understaffed. 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.440 So, you know, being cynical, you could say that, you know, 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.000 one of the reasons is because it's that they wanted 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.880 to get rid of CCDM and trend care or to 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.520 sort of modify it is because it's it's showing the 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.880 gaps that exist and that that doesn't measure up to 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.440 the budget they've allowed. 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.080 So Health New Zealand is also accusing nurses of putting 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.479 politics ahead of patients. How does the union respond to 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:17.880 this kind of criticism. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.160 Well, I mean it's it's it's political and as much 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.320 as it's about you know, a public health system and 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:28.680 the need for a good public health system. And it's 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.520 that have hit in the government who have become overly 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:36.520 and politically involved in this in this dispute, they're the 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.080 ones that have essentially changed it up and had Judith 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.360 Collins interfere with the Public Services Minister. 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:44.000 You know. 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.160 So I guess you could say you could argue that 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:52.040 that they've made it political in their approach. 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.000 It's not all about money, though, is it. I mean 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.400 that chronic understaffing. How do you how do we address that? 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.280 Do you need a gar and tea I guess from 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.240 Health New Zealand to say, well, we promise to hire 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.240 x amount by the end of the year or by 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.240 year's time or something. I mean, how do we get 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:10.760 around that? 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.479 Yeah, I mean in terms of if you're talking about wages, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.960 it's you know, obviously the cost of living is impacting 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.320 on our members and you know, we want to we 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.480 want to wage increase that keeps up with and addresses inflation. 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:25.960 You know, won't being off for so far as essentially 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:26.640 a pay cut. 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.520 But in terms of like for safe staffing, we need 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.680 much more money put into the public health system and 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:39.800 we need order to commit to continuing the CCDM trend here. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.240 And also we have a plane on bargaining around culturally 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:48.560 appropriate ratios that would be basically a safety net below 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:53.760 the care capacity demand management process, so that we would 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:58.159 have a net that would ensure that a certain number 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.520 of health messes and HCAs are there to provide the 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:04.400 care that we want to give and the care that 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.839 advice for a good you know person outcome. 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:09.200 Right. 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.680 So those processes that you mentioned that kind of mathematically 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.680 we figures out how many nurses should be on a 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.560 shift or something like that. I mean, on any given 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.960 day at the moment, can you give me an example 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.400 of how that isn't working out well? 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.560 I mean, I can give you just one an incdotal 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.920 example of like where I worked that, you know, especially 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.440 on night shift, Like night shifts have been chronically short 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.800 staff for some time and and over this this you 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.880 know winter period. I mean, it's not really the winter 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.680 period because the the the pressures on that house system 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.919 of we've seen these numbers even before winter hit, but 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.160 over winter, you know, the staffing has become dire. 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:53.840 Like you know, we're meant to be. 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.440 Staffed to to five r ns and two h c's 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.920 on night shift, and regularly one of the is redeployed, 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.800 so we are four our ends on instead of five, 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.880 and after a certain time there's no h gas on 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:11.320 the floor. So you know, like that's that's just one area, 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:15.360 and that's that's across the board. Like we're we're staffing 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.200 and redeployed to try and fill the gaps. 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.480 But when there's not enough staff, everywhere gets short. 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.880 What are some ongoing challenges that nurses are facing that 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:25.880 impact I guess retention. 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:30.120 Well, I guess a remuneration package that that meets the 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.000 cost of living and that that makes it easier, especially 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.600 for our members that are you know, single mothers or 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.200 single fathers, and that the struggling at the moment on 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:40.040 a sole income. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.720 You know, so wages essential to keeping people here. But 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:44.600 also when. 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.000 You're in an environment where day in day out, you're 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.080 you're becoming anxious and fearful of going to it because 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.240 of the pressures and you're knowing how understaffed it is 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.320 and how busy it is, people burn out and people 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.160 sort of like want to move away from that obviously, 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.640 and so you know, when when they see conditions and 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.440 wages in Australia to be a lot better than they're 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.120 going to want to move to that. So it's something 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.520 and they're interest for I guess. But yeah, like we 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.640 don't want to see that. We want to see, you know, 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.840 a well funded, functioning public health system that retains our staff. 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.640 I mean, another aspect of the pressures that people are 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.360 under when we are short staffed is the culture that 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:32.319 develops and it becomes very cutthroat and it's something that 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:33.880 we need to address. 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.280 So but yeah, I guess. 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.520 Also you have to look at the fact that our 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.000 hospitals are overwhelmed because patients are becoming more acutely unwell. 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.280 We have an aging population. Successive governments have failed to 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.559 address that. I mean, the social determinants of health, whether 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:54.440 it's housing, whether it's poverty, whether it's homelessness, those sorts 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:56.360 of things. If we had a if we had a 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:00.240 well functioning primary health system, we'd be keeping people well 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:01.360 and longer and keeping them. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:02.000 Out of hospitals. 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.520 I mean, the result of our hospital has been overwhelmed 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.880 as the result of brought me healthcare failing. 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.040 We're hair not only for ourselves, but we hare for 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.760 our patients as well, because they deserve better care than 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:27.880 what we're able to provide in these conditions. And so 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.320 we've been pretty clear with our message. We need better staffing, 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.880 we want nursing ratios, and we want fear pay and 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:34.920 so far the government hasn't delivered on any of that. 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.880 So we've had to take this pretty historic action of 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.880 two day strikes, and Samian Brown has been misrepresenting the 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:46.200 truth and the reality. Up on his window today he's 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.520 got a sign saying that our strike is delaying thousands 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.320 of surgeries. I think he's got thirteen hundred surgeries. But 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.359 what he's not saying is the reason there's so many backlogs, 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.199 just because the government has failed to deliver on those outcomes. 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.320 I saw that Health Minister Simeon Brown pointed out that 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.760 the average salary for a registered nurse is now over 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.280 one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a year, including 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:12.760 overtime and allowances. 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:14.199 Is this correct? 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:14.960 Well? 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:19.080 I would say to that that it's actually deliberate disinformation 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.880 because in order for your average nurse to earn that much, 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.319 that have to be working, that have to be a 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.480 senior nurse to start with, that have to be working, 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.800 you know, every every shift that earns a penalty, like 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.760 weekends and night shift, that kind of thing, and it's 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.839 that's that's just you know, there's only a very very 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.520 small number of members that would even earn that much, 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:48.720 So it's just deliberately you know, disinformation. I would say 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.960 that sort of is leading the public Australia. And then 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:54.559 when you look at you know, like the other members 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.040 of ends that you know that HCA is that don't 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.000 as much as are in so I mean what they're 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.520 in in is way less. It's only you know, in 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.240 the last round of bargaining last time that some HbAS 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.840 were brought up to the living wage and you know 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.960 there's there's the risk of HbA members falling below that again, 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.400 so you know that's that's a significant number of our 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:17.200 membership as well. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.120 Do you get frustrated when you see things like that 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.440 because you know, the average New Zealander who doesn't really 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.360 know anything or doesn't have a nurse in their life 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.600 say sees, ah, well, they must be doing it right, 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.960 because the average wages over you know, there's six figures 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.839 or they see something like, oh, graduates are getting you know, 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.720 seventy odd thousand dollars a year straight off the bat, 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.680 Like it must be frustrating that those figures aren't laid 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.680 out like that, Like, no, not everyone is going to 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:51.079 be getting those overnight shifts or weekend shift or Sunday shifts. 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:52.920 Yeah, yeah, it is. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.120 It is very frustrating, and I mean it's a deliberate 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.120 take to you know, to put out that spin. 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:58.920 I mean, this scivement's very good at it. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.680 You know that, like I said, it's a very small 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.120 number that would get anywhere near in that amount. 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:05.360 And you know, like we. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.360 All need, you know, we acknowledge that, like you know, 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.200 many many working people are struggling at the moment of 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.040 the cost of living crisis, and you know, we're not 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.600 the only ones that are that are needing leading wage 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.360 increases that sort of interest and inflation and things like that. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:26.200 So yeah, that's it's disappointing, but it's not unexpected, I guess. 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.040 And what about the claims that nurses are putting patients 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.520 at risk by striking or going on two strikes in 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.959 one week, which is unprecedented. But I suppose one wouldn't 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.440 become a nurse if you didn't like people. 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.320 Yeah, I mean, obviously we're in this job because we care. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.640 You know, on a personal level, I get a reward 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:47.640 out of caring for people. It's something that you know, 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.640 like it's inherent in me. But I mean that's like 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.800 caring profession is. It's a role for people that care. 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.120 I mean, I guess it's hard to put into words, 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.640 how you know, overworked and overwhelmed. You guys, what's it 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.160 been like on the picket lines. 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:03.600 The response has been great. 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.800 We've had the firefighters here again massive respect and solidarity 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.960 with the New Zealand Professional Firefighters Service, they union, they've 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:16.280 they've and we've had the representatives from other unions, from 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:21.280 the from the teachers and senior doctors, that sort of stuff. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.040 I mean, we've had a lot of support, a lot 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:27.400 of public support. Our pickets in March has been very 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:32.400 rowdy and very excited, but you know, members, members are 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:37.680 angry and they're frustrated, and you know, they want to 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.600 see our claims addressed. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.720 And Lastly, now if you could waive a magic wand 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.360 what needs to be done tomorrow in terms of bargaining. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.360 I think that we need to be sitting back at 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.360 the table and we need to be having to take 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:57.000 our claims seriously and addressing them. You know, we have 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.679 a number of claims that would go a long way 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.960 to it dressing the issues around staffing that they're they're 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.719 failing to accept an address, So you know that that 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.600 would be a first good step would be to sit 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.160 back down at the table. 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:13.800 We want to. 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.000 Sit at the table and negotiate, but if they're not 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:20.320 prepared to even contemplate and accept some of our claims, 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.640 then there's there seems to be no point because they're 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.480 not they're not coming to the parties. So you know, 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.000 that's what we need is we need them to to 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.120 accept that, you know, what we're saying is correct and 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.360 that they that they need to address our claims. 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:34.760 Thanks for joining us out. 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:36.280 That's okay, Thank you very much. 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.840 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.760 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.880 at nzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.360 produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:59.040 our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front page 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.720 on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.760 in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.