Speaker 1: Kyota.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four was a difficult year for the royal family, with
Speaker 2: King Charles and the Princess of Wales both going public
Speaker 2: with cancer diagnoses which required lengthy treatment that took them
Speaker 2: out of the spotlight.
Speaker 1: Things have been.
Speaker 2: Looking rosier for the family so far this year, and
Speaker 2: the King is even flexing his diplomatic muscles in a
Speaker 2: visit to Canada amidst tensions between the country and the
Speaker 2: United States. However, in recent weeks, the friction between the
Speaker 2: monarchy and Prince Harry has made headlines once again. Today
Speaker 2: on the front page four King's Birthday. We're joined by
Speaker 2: UK correspondent Gavin Gray. Gavin, we last touched base with
Speaker 2: you on the Royals a year ago, and that was
Speaker 2: when the cancer diagnoses were still quite fresh.
Speaker 1: Where are the King and Kate at at the moment?
Speaker 3: Well, probably the easiest one to start with is Princess Kate,
Speaker 3: the Princess of Wales, Catherine. She is now formally in remission,
Speaker 3: so great news for her.
Speaker 4: She's been seen out more and more now.
Speaker 3: Although I have to say that although she's back in
Speaker 3: the royal fold doing the duties and back on the roster,
Speaker 3: as it were, we are seeing much less of her
Speaker 3: than before the diagnosis. And I think that's a direct
Speaker 3: result of the thought that actually, you know, this was
Speaker 3: a very serious bump in the road for her, This
Speaker 3: was a very very serious health condition. I think it
Speaker 3: could have been a lot worse. I think it was
Speaker 3: extremely serious, and I think it's probably made her and
Speaker 3: Prince William rather take stock of the situation.
Speaker 4: So obviously.
Speaker 3: In March twenty twenty four, she announced that she'd been
Speaker 3: die knows with cancer, and then announced that she was
Speaker 3: in remission in January of this year.
Speaker 4: Since we've seen her.
Speaker 3: Out in about a few times, as you can imagine,
Speaker 3: the scrutiny of her, how she behaves, how she looks
Speaker 3: as been enormous. So good news as regards her treatment
Speaker 3: for King Charles, well, he's continuing to have this treatment.
Speaker 3: That recent trip to Canada, which was only twenty hours long,
Speaker 3: was actually kept that short, not because he didn't want
Speaker 3: to stay longer, but because they were determined, I hear,
Speaker 3: not to want to interrupt the usual schedule of his treatments.
Speaker 3: So the treatment is ongoing. He still is, you know,
Speaker 3: somebody being treated for cancer. Prince Harry didn't really help
Speaker 3: matters when he said he didn't know how much longer
Speaker 3: his father had got left, which was something that lots
Speaker 3: of people were quite shocked about. But there was that
Speaker 3: bump in the road for him back in March when
Speaker 3: he did have to cancel a couple of engagements, but
Speaker 3: that was quite simply because of a side effect to
Speaker 3: the most recent bout of treatment.
Speaker 2: Well this might sound like a grim takeaway, but do
Speaker 2: you think that the openness about their conditions has perhaps
Speaker 2: helped humanize the royals a bit more.
Speaker 1: I remember stories at the time about how.
Speaker 2: There were just massive surges and visits to cancer websites
Speaker 2: after they both went public.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I absolutely have no doubt, Chelsea. Actually that's been
Speaker 3: enormously important to people. I think it has made the
Speaker 3: Royals seem much more human, much more like you and
Speaker 3: I I think, as well, as made these visits that
Speaker 3: they made to cancer hospitals and to hospitals around the
Speaker 3: world seem that much more poignant. Both at the moment
Speaker 3: are so in the public eye. I mean, King Charles
Speaker 3: is seventy six.
Speaker 4: You know, it's.
Speaker 3: Exhausting going on travel, it's exhausting chatting to people and
Speaker 3: remaining on messages it were for all this time, and
Speaker 3: so I think it is something that his team are
Speaker 3: very careful.
Speaker 4: Not to exhaust him.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, he as well, is determined
Speaker 3: not to let cancer, I think, sort of identify him
Speaker 3: and not to let the cancer the thing take over
Speaker 3: his life. And that's why we're seeing him out and
Speaker 3: about so much and doing many more visits to hospitals
Speaker 3: than perhaps he might otherwise have done.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: You mentioned the big news in the last week has
Speaker 2: been that the King and Queen visited Canada.
Speaker 1: Can you explain to us what were they doing there?
Speaker 3: Well, it was hugely symbolic, actually, because the main focus
Speaker 3: off his trip was the opening of the State Parliament
Speaker 3: and delivering the Canadian government's message as delivered by the
Speaker 3: new Prime Minister, the Liberal Prime Minister there, Mark Carney.
Speaker 3: It was an interesting one because of course King Charles's
Speaker 3: head of state in Canada and his mother had given
Speaker 3: the previous speech from the throne as it's called, that
Speaker 3: throne being a wooden walnut throne, and over the years
Speaker 3: I suppose the ties between Canada and the UK part
Speaker 3: of the Commonwealth. They've always been pretty close, but I
Speaker 3: think things have been a little more distant over the
Speaker 3: last few years. However, the reason for that trip, without doubt,
Speaker 3: was the fact that Donald Trump was trying to pressure
Speaker 3: Canada into becoming the fifty first state. That is something
Speaker 3: Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada, said is not
Speaker 3: going to happen. But he would have been very pleased
Speaker 3: to be able to invite King Charles over in order
Speaker 3: to really round that home. At no point, to my knowledge,
Speaker 3: did King Charles actually use the word Trump. But everything
Speaker 3: in that opening address to the Ottawa Building, the Ottawa Parliament,
Speaker 3: everything in that address was about Canada being independent, part
Speaker 3: of the Commonwealth, very happy being Canada, very happy not
Speaker 3: being for sale to America.
Speaker 6: I've always had the greatest admiration for Canada's unique identity,
Speaker 6: which is recognized across the world, for bravery and sacrifice
Speaker 6: in defense of national values, and for the diversity and
Speaker 6: kindness of Canadians.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's a sign of how the monarchy
Speaker 2: can utilize itself in these kind of diplomatic sendings. Hey,
Speaker 2: this is basically the ultimate power move by Mark Kearney.
Speaker 2: This is the extent of what the Royals can do
Speaker 2: to show support, though, isn't it. The King would never
Speaker 2: actually directly call out anything Trump is doing, would he.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's a bit of a tightrope though this particular
Speaker 3: trip because for King Charles, of course, Donald Trump has
Speaker 3: been invited to be a guest of King Charles and
Speaker 3: the country later this year.
Speaker 4: So King Charles really very difficult trope.
Speaker 3: Walk because he's got to say all the right things
Speaker 3: for Canada while he's there while not directly angering Donald Trump. Now,
Speaker 3: as you say, ros go around naming and shaming. But
Speaker 3: at the same time, you know, the UK is pretty
Speaker 3: dependent on good trade with America and it's seen pretty
Speaker 3: much a soft power to use the Royal family, who
Speaker 3: we know Donald Trump is a massive fan of in
Speaker 3: order to try and build bridges, and King Charles very
Speaker 3: careful in Canada not to destroy any of those bridges
Speaker 3: before the second visit by Donald Trump over to the
Speaker 3: UK as part of his second presidential term.
Speaker 2: Do you think the visit to Canada will quell any
Speaker 2: Republican sentiment that seems to arise whenever the Royals tend
Speaker 2: to visit any of the realms.
Speaker 4: Really, it won't have done any harm, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: A lot of people interviewed on the streets of Canada
Speaker 3: are saying things like he's bringing us together.
Speaker 4: Hearing from the king has been very good. I think
Speaker 4: there is a.
Speaker 3: Universal dislike of Donald Trump, almost universal in Canada, and
Speaker 3: certainly an almost universal denial of wanting to be part
Speaker 3: of America. And by tapping into that and by reinforcing
Speaker 3: that with this visit, I think that's bound to have
Speaker 3: gone down well. Canada is always an interesting one for
Speaker 3: the king or queen to visit, for any monarch to visit,
Speaker 3: because of course of its French British ties and being
Speaker 3: you know that sort of really unusual combination part of
Speaker 3: the Commonwealth, but you know, very strong French contingent among
Speaker 3: some of the states in the Canada. So that's a
Speaker 3: very difficult balancing act that he's had to walk. But
Speaker 3: it is one that I think will have strengthen the
Speaker 3: monarchy's grip as part of the Commonwealth for Canada, and
Speaker 3: I think it's a I don't think it's been a
Speaker 3: great trip. I know there's all sorts of talk that
Speaker 3: the King will revisit Canada, possibly next year.
Speaker 4: I think they we're talking about later this year.
Speaker 3: I can't see that happening, but next year and then
Speaker 3: it won't be that whistle stoctor. I mean, a twenty
Speaker 3: hour visit on a vow of kilometers travel is almost
Speaker 3: unheard of in royal circus. So I think this is
Speaker 3: all to do with the cancer and the treatment and
Speaker 3: not disrupting that the regulation appointments.
Speaker 4: But it is something that I.
Speaker 3: Know perhaps when that is all over and that treatment
Speaker 3: is done and Dustin and King Charles is feeling better,
Speaker 3: he will want to go back for a longer trip.
Speaker 2: Well, I have to say as well, Gavin the King
Speaker 2: did skip New Zealand on his royal visit last year.
Speaker 2: I know that Odawa is a little closer to London
Speaker 2: than we are, of course, but have you heard any
Speaker 2: rumblings of a visit down south.
Speaker 3: I do know that he's absolutely desperate to get around
Speaker 3: as much of the Commonwealth as possibly, particularly the much
Speaker 3: closer members.
Speaker 4: So yes, of course New Zealand.
Speaker 3: And I do know at the time from sources he
Speaker 3: was absolutely gutted actually not to be able to complete
Speaker 3: the tour, as was initially envisaged, although he didn't make
Speaker 3: it there this time. I think New Zealand's going to
Speaker 3: be pretty much top of the list for places for
Speaker 3: him to visit when he's fully better. I think it
Speaker 3: is simply the length of the flight's Chelsea at the
Speaker 3: age of seventy six as well. I mean, I know
Speaker 3: they're flying, you know, in the superb luxury and so forth,
Speaker 3: but when they get there, they're really busy and they
Speaker 3: can't just turn up at these events without having thought
Speaker 3: about what they're going to say, without knowing who the
Speaker 3: main players are. So the idea that it's just a
Speaker 3: sort of jolly jaunt is rather wide at the mark,
Speaker 3: and I think that the King is going to be
Speaker 3: very keen to get back to New Zealand, but only
Speaker 3: when he can do it justice.
Speaker 2: It does feel like two conversations have dominated the royals
Speaker 2: in recent years. One is, of course, death, illness, succession.
Speaker 2: The other, Gavin is Prince Harry. About a month ago,
Speaker 2: Harry gave an interview to the BBC where he said
Speaker 2: that the King won't speak to him and that he'd
Speaker 2: love to reconcile with the family now that all went
Speaker 2: down a bit like a lead balloon, didn't it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it did, and I think reconciliation is a long
Speaker 3: way wide at the mark. And let's not forget. He
Speaker 3: made those comments in an interview about how he had
Speaker 3: failed in an appeal against effectively the British government and
Speaker 3: that was all about his security level. Now, when he
Speaker 3: and Megan left back in twenty twenty, they simply decided
Speaker 3: that they no longer when they revisited the UK were
Speaker 3: entitled to the same level of protection as they were
Speaker 3: when they were a working royal. Now Prince Harry has said, look,
Speaker 3: I get the most awful hate mail. You don't appreciate
Speaker 3: how dangerous it is for me and my family, And
Speaker 3: the Roles are saying, well, it's not like we're not
Speaker 3: going to give you any protection. We're going to give
Speaker 3: you the protection which we think is adequate for your
Speaker 3: individual visits and each visit is measured independently by this committee. Well,
Speaker 3: Harry lost his appeal again a louder another hearing with
Speaker 3: regardless security, and we got a very terse statement from
Speaker 3: the Royals at Buckingham Palace effectively saying we've looked at
Speaker 3: all this time and again the review has come back
Speaker 3: with the same conclusions that it did. It sounded like
Speaker 3: a very weary parent and that's why I think reconciliation
Speaker 3: is still wider than mark. It was a very odd
Speaker 3: time to bring it in, having just tried to sort
Speaker 3: of talk about how the government and needs to do
Speaker 3: more and how Buckingham Palace is a bit of a
Speaker 3: broken machine.
Speaker 7: I've seen constituents in the UK rights to their mp
Speaker 7: saying I don't want to as a taxpayer, I don't
Speaker 7: want to pay for Megan and Harry's security at this cost.
Speaker 7: They're literally quoting headlines from British newspapers. Those figures are
Speaker 7: obviously grossly exaggerated by about eighteen nineteen times. And further
Speaker 7: to that, if you know that other people being protected,
Speaker 7: people that have made a choice for public office, would
Speaker 7: you'd be comfortable happy with with with someone in my
Speaker 7: position who's given thirty years thirty five years so this
Speaker 7: to his country.
Speaker 2: Well, Harry in that interview also alleged that his father
Speaker 2: could help resolve the security issues that he says are
Speaker 2: preventing him from returning to the UK. And you mentioned
Speaker 2: that quite terse weary parentage kind of Buckingham Palace statement
Speaker 2: that they said, all of these issues have been examined
Speaker 2: repeatedly and meticulously by the courts. How high up does
Speaker 2: a statement like that need to get signed off?
Speaker 1: Wasn't the weary parent that signed that off?
Speaker 3: Well, I suspect somebody by the cast an eye on it.
Speaker 3: But I think if King Charles had demanded there were
Speaker 3: a change in security, there probably would have been.
Speaker 4: But you know, as he as was.
Speaker 3: Pointed out by lots of royal watchers and lots of
Speaker 3: royal experts, myself included, the King can't is not part
Speaker 3: of the committee that makes the decision. And if that
Speaker 3: sounds rather administrative and rather the it is the case.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the security and the funding for
Speaker 3: the roles is not for the royals to decide themselves.
Speaker 3: It is for others, and King Charles getting involved would
Speaker 3: have been, I think a very slippery slip. So he
Speaker 3: took the attitude that the right people on that committee
Speaker 3: know what they're talking about, and they are the ones
Speaker 3: that should make the decision. And I think it really
Speaker 3: has been another wage between father and son and also
Speaker 3: between brothers. Prince William absolutely unimpressed by Prince Harry's constant
Speaker 3: going back to the courts appealing these decisions, and let's
Speaker 3: not forget Chelsea who's putting the bill From the government side,
Speaker 3: the answer is the UK taxpayer, And if Harry wanted
Speaker 3: to win over people, it just seems a funny way
Speaker 3: of doing it. Plus the fact while he was in
Speaker 3: the UK, admittedly not with Megan and his family, but
Speaker 3: when he was in the UK he was found or
Speaker 3: reported to be found in London buzzing a number of
Speaker 3: front doors trying to find a friend whose address he
Speaker 3: couldn't remember. Well, if you were really worried about your security,
Speaker 3: would you really, as a royal somebody worried that they
Speaker 3: were going to be attacked, would you wander down a
Speaker 3: busy London street ringing on doorbells to see if your
Speaker 3: friend lived there. It seems very odd, But there is
Speaker 3: video doorbell footage of these exchanges. These videos purport to
Speaker 3: be from the time he was in London for the
Speaker 3: court case, so it does seem more I think probably
Speaker 3: in Harry's defense, what he means is he's worried about
Speaker 3: the safety of his children and Meghan, among whom There
Speaker 3: is a lot of.
Speaker 4: Scorn from some people at the UK.
Speaker 3: But whether it's as realistic and violent as Harry's making out,
Speaker 3: I don't know. Sadly, he says he can't see a
Speaker 3: time at the moment when he would bring his children
Speaker 3: back over to the UK because he doesn't believe the
Speaker 3: security is enough.
Speaker 5: And I do remember a few years ago writing in
Speaker 5: my piece and I'd put a source in there, and
Speaker 5: some magazin nurse rang me up and said, can I
Speaker 5: just double check this? This feels very close to the source.
Speaker 5: Who's the sauce? And I said the sources X And
Speaker 5: they're like, ah, okay, So you have to be very
Speaker 5: careful with how you go about it. And I would
Speaker 5: say the most important thing in this job, with what
Speaker 5: you think it is.
Speaker 2: Trust Now, Gavin, I often see reports quoting royal sources
Speaker 2: or royal insiders who are sharing bits of gossip or
Speaker 2: supposed feelings from a family member of the royal family,
Speaker 2: someone close to the royal family, and I do I
Speaker 2: always wonder who these sources are, How real are they are,
Speaker 2: these proxies for the royals sharing stuff on their behalf
Speaker 2: or is it like a made eavesdropping on something than
Speaker 2: dming the Daily Mail.
Speaker 4: It's a combination of different things.
Speaker 3: First of all, there are tip offs that you get,
Speaker 3: and they often come from people in and around the
Speaker 3: starf of Buckingham Palace and the theyre households. There are
Speaker 3: the communications teams, of course, who put out their statements,
Speaker 3: but they also too may push a particular story or
Speaker 3: an angle one way or the other. And Prince Harry
Speaker 3: was always deeply, deeply against that and thought, you know,
Speaker 3: it was Prince William's press officer against his press officer
Speaker 3: and all the rest of it. It is, and they
Speaker 3: do tend to work together, after all, they want to
Speaker 3: maximize the publicity of the good that the roles are doing. It.
Speaker 3: If they all went on high profile state visits all together,
Speaker 3: only one of probably the King's visits would make headlines.
Speaker 3: The others wouldn't get a headline. So they of course
Speaker 3: they coordinate diaries. Of course they coordinate causes that they
Speaker 3: want to support and lend publicity to. But yes, there
Speaker 3: are those people then I think, frankly, you know, I
Speaker 3: think there are some people who sit at home and
Speaker 3: probably make quite a lot up and put it on
Speaker 3: the internet as though a fact. So I think there's
Speaker 3: a whole load of combination about these things.
Speaker 1: It's been a tumultuous period for the royals.
Speaker 2: You've got megxt, the Prince Andrew Epstein controversy, the deaths
Speaker 2: of the Queen, and of course Prince Philip and the
Speaker 2: double cancer diagnoses. Does it feel like the monarchy is
Speaker 2: getting any closer to stability.
Speaker 3: I think you're right. I think at the moment it's
Speaker 3: in a state of flux. And part of that is
Speaker 3: the uncertainty over the King's health. After all, he's not
Speaker 3: been that long in the job. And the one thing
Speaker 3: that you like with stability is a stability of the cast,
Speaker 3: you know, the main players in the royal family. So
Speaker 3: it has been now a decade, as you said, Prince Andrew,
Speaker 3: Prince Harry, the death of Prince Philip, the death of
Speaker 3: the Queen. It's been a very very difficult time for
Speaker 3: the royal family to hold it together, particularly as I said,
Speaker 3: in the eyes of the public. And it's a very
Speaker 3: very deeply scrutinizing public and deeply scrutinizing social media world
Speaker 3: that we live in. You really can't have any secrets
Speaker 3: and everybody is watching your remove and I think we're
Speaker 3: seeing that accidentally with Princess Catherine returning to work after
Speaker 3: her remission a diagnosis for cancer. About everywhere she goes,
Speaker 3: you know, the cameras are trying to zoom in and
Speaker 3: see how she's looking and how has she changed in
Speaker 3: the last year or so, and that must be very
Speaker 3: difficult when you've got a she has three young children.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Kevin.
Speaker 4: My pleasure. Thank you very much, Chelsea.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 2: at enziherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
Speaker 2: a sound engineer.
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
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Speaker 2: behind the headlines.