1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Kyota. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Twenty twenty 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 2: four was a difficult year for the royal family, with 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 2: King Charles and the Princess of Wales both going public 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 2: with cancer diagnoses which required lengthy treatment that took them 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: out of the spotlight. 8 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: Things have been. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: Looking rosier for the family so far this year, and 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: the King is even flexing his diplomatic muscles in a 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: visit to Canada amidst tensions between the country and the 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: United States. However, in recent weeks, the friction between the 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 2: monarchy and Prince Harry has made headlines once again. Today 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: on the front page four King's Birthday. We're joined by 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: UK correspondent Gavin Gray. Gavin, we last touched base with 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: you on the Royals a year ago, and that was 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 2: when the cancer diagnoses were still quite fresh. 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: Where are the King and Kate at at the moment? 19 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 3: Well, probably the easiest one to start with is Princess Kate, 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: the Princess of Wales, Catherine. She is now formally in remission, 21 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: so great news for her. 22 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 4: She's been seen out more and more now. 23 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 3: Although I have to say that although she's back in 24 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 3: the royal fold doing the duties and back on the roster, 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: as it were, we are seeing much less of her 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 3: than before the diagnosis. And I think that's a direct 27 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 3: result of the thought that actually, you know, this was 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 3: a very serious bump in the road for her, This 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 3: was a very very serious health condition. I think it 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 3: could have been a lot worse. I think it was 31 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: extremely serious, and I think it's probably made her and 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: Prince William rather take stock of the situation. 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 4: So obviously. 34 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: In March twenty twenty four, she announced that she'd been 35 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: die knows with cancer, and then announced that she was 36 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 3: in remission in January of this year. 37 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 4: Since we've seen her. 38 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 3: Out in about a few times, as you can imagine, 39 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 3: the scrutiny of her, how she behaves, how she looks 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 3: as been enormous. So good news as regards her treatment 41 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 3: for King Charles, well, he's continuing to have this treatment. 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 3: That recent trip to Canada, which was only twenty hours long, 43 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: was actually kept that short, not because he didn't want 44 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: to stay longer, but because they were determined, I hear, 45 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 3: not to want to interrupt the usual schedule of his treatments. 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 3: So the treatment is ongoing. He still is, you know, 47 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 3: somebody being treated for cancer. Prince Harry didn't really help 48 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 3: matters when he said he didn't know how much longer 49 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 3: his father had got left, which was something that lots 50 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: of people were quite shocked about. But there was that 51 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 3: bump in the road for him back in March when 52 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 3: he did have to cancel a couple of engagements, but 53 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 3: that was quite simply because of a side effect to 54 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 3: the most recent bout of treatment. 55 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: Well this might sound like a grim takeaway, but do 56 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 2: you think that the openness about their conditions has perhaps 57 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: helped humanize the royals a bit more. 58 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: I remember stories at the time about how. 59 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: There were just massive surges and visits to cancer websites 60 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: after they both went public. 61 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, I absolutely have no doubt, Chelsea. Actually that's been 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 3: enormously important to people. I think it has made the 63 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: Royals seem much more human, much more like you and 64 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 3: I I think, as well, as made these visits that 65 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: they made to cancer hospitals and to hospitals around the 66 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: world seem that much more poignant. Both at the moment 67 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: are so in the public eye. I mean, King Charles 68 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: is seventy six. 69 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 4: You know, it's. 70 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: Exhausting going on travel, it's exhausting chatting to people and 71 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: remaining on messages it were for all this time, and 72 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 3: so I think it is something that his team are 73 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 3: very careful. 74 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 4: Not to exhaust him. 75 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: But at the same time, he as well, is determined 76 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: not to let cancer, I think, sort of identify him 77 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 3: and not to let the cancer the thing take over 78 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 3: his life. And that's why we're seeing him out and 79 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 3: about so much and doing many more visits to hospitals 80 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 3: than perhaps he might otherwise have done. 81 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 5: Well. 82 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 2: You mentioned the big news in the last week has 83 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: been that the King and Queen visited Canada. 84 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: Can you explain to us what were they doing there? 85 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: Well, it was hugely symbolic, actually, because the main focus 86 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 3: off his trip was the opening of the State Parliament 87 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 3: and delivering the Canadian government's message as delivered by the 88 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 3: new Prime Minister, the Liberal Prime Minister there, Mark Carney. 89 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 3: It was an interesting one because of course King Charles's 90 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: head of state in Canada and his mother had given 91 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 3: the previous speech from the throne as it's called, that 92 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 3: throne being a wooden walnut throne, and over the years 93 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 3: I suppose the ties between Canada and the UK part 94 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 3: of the Commonwealth. They've always been pretty close, but I 95 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: think things have been a little more distant over the 96 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: last few years. However, the reason for that trip, without doubt, 97 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 3: was the fact that Donald Trump was trying to pressure 98 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: Canada into becoming the fifty first state. That is something 99 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 3: Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada, said is not 100 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 3: going to happen. But he would have been very pleased 101 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 3: to be able to invite King Charles over in order 102 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 3: to really round that home. At no point, to my knowledge, 103 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 3: did King Charles actually use the word Trump. But everything 104 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: in that opening address to the Ottawa Building, the Ottawa Parliament, 105 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 3: everything in that address was about Canada being independent, part 106 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: of the Commonwealth, very happy being Canada, very happy not 107 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 3: being for sale to America. 108 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 6: I've always had the greatest admiration for Canada's unique identity, 109 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 6: which is recognized across the world, for bravery and sacrifice 110 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 6: in defense of national values, and for the diversity and 111 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 6: kindness of Canadians. 112 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's a sign of how the monarchy 113 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: can utilize itself in these kind of diplomatic sendings. Hey, 114 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: this is basically the ultimate power move by Mark Kearney. 115 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: This is the extent of what the Royals can do 116 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: to show support, though, isn't it. The King would never 117 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: actually directly call out anything Trump is doing, would he. 118 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 119 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: And it's a bit of a tightrope though this particular 120 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 3: trip because for King Charles, of course, Donald Trump has 121 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 3: been invited to be a guest of King Charles and 122 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 3: the country later this year. 123 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 4: So King Charles really very difficult trope. 124 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 3: Walk because he's got to say all the right things 125 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 3: for Canada while he's there while not directly angering Donald Trump. Now, 126 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 3: as you say, ros go around naming and shaming. But 127 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 3: at the same time, you know, the UK is pretty 128 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 3: dependent on good trade with America and it's seen pretty 129 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 3: much a soft power to use the Royal family, who 130 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 3: we know Donald Trump is a massive fan of in 131 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: order to try and build bridges, and King Charles very 132 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 3: careful in Canada not to destroy any of those bridges 133 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 3: before the second visit by Donald Trump over to the 134 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: UK as part of his second presidential term. 135 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: Do you think the visit to Canada will quell any 136 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: Republican sentiment that seems to arise whenever the Royals tend 137 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: to visit any of the realms. 138 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 4: Really, it won't have done any harm, that's for sure. 139 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 3: A lot of people interviewed on the streets of Canada 140 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 3: are saying things like he's bringing us together. 141 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 4: Hearing from the king has been very good. I think 142 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 4: there is a. 143 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 3: Universal dislike of Donald Trump, almost universal in Canada, and 144 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 3: certainly an almost universal denial of wanting to be part 145 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 3: of America. And by tapping into that and by reinforcing 146 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 3: that with this visit, I think that's bound to have 147 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 3: gone down well. Canada is always an interesting one for 148 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: the king or queen to visit, for any monarch to visit, 149 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 3: because of course of its French British ties and being 150 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 3: you know that sort of really unusual combination part of 151 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 3: the Commonwealth, but you know, very strong French contingent among 152 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: some of the states in the Canada. So that's a 153 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 3: very difficult balancing act that he's had to walk. But 154 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 3: it is one that I think will have strengthen the 155 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: monarchy's grip as part of the Commonwealth for Canada, and 156 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 3: I think it's a I don't think it's been a 157 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: great trip. I know there's all sorts of talk that 158 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: the King will revisit Canada, possibly next year. 159 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 4: I think they we're talking about later this year. 160 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 3: I can't see that happening, but next year and then 161 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 3: it won't be that whistle stoctor. I mean, a twenty 162 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 3: hour visit on a vow of kilometers travel is almost 163 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 3: unheard of in royal circus. So I think this is 164 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: all to do with the cancer and the treatment and 165 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: not disrupting that the regulation appointments. 166 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: But it is something that I. 167 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 3: Know perhaps when that is all over and that treatment 168 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 3: is done and Dustin and King Charles is feeling better, 169 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 3: he will want to go back for a longer trip. 170 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: Well, I have to say as well, Gavin the King 171 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 2: did skip New Zealand on his royal visit last year. 172 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: I know that Odawa is a little closer to London 173 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: than we are, of course, but have you heard any 174 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 2: rumblings of a visit down south. 175 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 3: I do know that he's absolutely desperate to get around 176 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 3: as much of the Commonwealth as possibly, particularly the much 177 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 3: closer members. 178 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 4: So yes, of course New Zealand. 179 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 3: And I do know at the time from sources he 180 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 3: was absolutely gutted actually not to be able to complete 181 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: the tour, as was initially envisaged, although he didn't make 182 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: it there this time. I think New Zealand's going to 183 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 3: be pretty much top of the list for places for 184 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: him to visit when he's fully better. I think it 185 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: is simply the length of the flight's Chelsea at the 186 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 3: age of seventy six as well. I mean, I know 187 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: they're flying, you know, in the superb luxury and so forth, 188 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 3: but when they get there, they're really busy and they 189 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: can't just turn up at these events without having thought 190 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: about what they're going to say, without knowing who the 191 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 3: main players are. So the idea that it's just a 192 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 3: sort of jolly jaunt is rather wide at the mark, 193 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: and I think that the King is going to be 194 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 3: very keen to get back to New Zealand, but only 195 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 3: when he can do it justice. 196 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: It does feel like two conversations have dominated the royals 197 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 2: in recent years. One is, of course, death, illness, succession. 198 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: The other, Gavin is Prince Harry. About a month ago, 199 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: Harry gave an interview to the BBC where he said 200 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: that the King won't speak to him and that he'd 201 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: love to reconcile with the family now that all went 202 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 2: down a bit like a lead balloon, didn't it? 203 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it did, and I think reconciliation is a long 204 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 3: way wide at the mark. And let's not forget. He 205 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 3: made those comments in an interview about how he had 206 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 3: failed in an appeal against effectively the British government and 207 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 3: that was all about his security level. Now, when he 208 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 3: and Megan left back in twenty twenty, they simply decided 209 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 3: that they no longer when they revisited the UK were 210 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 3: entitled to the same level of protection as they were 211 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 3: when they were a working royal. Now Prince Harry has said, look, 212 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 3: I get the most awful hate mail. You don't appreciate 213 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 3: how dangerous it is for me and my family, And 214 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 3: the Roles are saying, well, it's not like we're not 215 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 3: going to give you any protection. We're going to give 216 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 3: you the protection which we think is adequate for your 217 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: individual visits and each visit is measured independently by this committee. Well, 218 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 3: Harry lost his appeal again a louder another hearing with 219 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 3: regardless security, and we got a very terse statement from 220 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 3: the Royals at Buckingham Palace effectively saying we've looked at 221 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 3: all this time and again the review has come back 222 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 3: with the same conclusions that it did. It sounded like 223 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 3: a very weary parent and that's why I think reconciliation 224 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 3: is still wider than mark. It was a very odd 225 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: time to bring it in, having just tried to sort 226 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 3: of talk about how the government and needs to do 227 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 3: more and how Buckingham Palace is a bit of a 228 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 3: broken machine. 229 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 7: I've seen constituents in the UK rights to their mp 230 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 7: saying I don't want to as a taxpayer, I don't 231 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 7: want to pay for Megan and Harry's security at this cost. 232 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 7: They're literally quoting headlines from British newspapers. Those figures are 233 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 7: obviously grossly exaggerated by about eighteen nineteen times. And further 234 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 7: to that, if you know that other people being protected, 235 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 7: people that have made a choice for public office, would 236 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 7: you'd be comfortable happy with with with someone in my 237 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 7: position who's given thirty years thirty five years so this 238 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 7: to his country. 239 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 2: Well, Harry in that interview also alleged that his father 240 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 2: could help resolve the security issues that he says are 241 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: preventing him from returning to the UK. And you mentioned 242 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: that quite terse weary parentage kind of Buckingham Palace statement 243 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: that they said, all of these issues have been examined 244 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: repeatedly and meticulously by the courts. How high up does 245 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: a statement like that need to get signed off? 246 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: Wasn't the weary parent that signed that off? 247 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 3: Well, I suspect somebody by the cast an eye on it. 248 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 3: But I think if King Charles had demanded there were 249 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 3: a change in security, there probably would have been. 250 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 4: But you know, as he as was. 251 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 3: Pointed out by lots of royal watchers and lots of 252 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 3: royal experts, myself included, the King can't is not part 253 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 3: of the committee that makes the decision. And if that 254 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 3: sounds rather administrative and rather the it is the case. 255 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the security and the funding for 256 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 3: the roles is not for the royals to decide themselves. 257 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 3: It is for others, and King Charles getting involved would 258 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 3: have been, I think a very slippery slip. So he 259 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 3: took the attitude that the right people on that committee 260 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: know what they're talking about, and they are the ones 261 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 3: that should make the decision. And I think it really 262 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 3: has been another wage between father and son and also 263 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 3: between brothers. Prince William absolutely unimpressed by Prince Harry's constant 264 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 3: going back to the courts appealing these decisions, and let's 265 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 3: not forget Chelsea who's putting the bill From the government side, 266 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: the answer is the UK taxpayer, And if Harry wanted 267 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 3: to win over people, it just seems a funny way 268 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: of doing it. Plus the fact while he was in 269 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 3: the UK, admittedly not with Megan and his family, but 270 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: when he was in the UK he was found or 271 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: reported to be found in London buzzing a number of 272 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 3: front doors trying to find a friend whose address he 273 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 3: couldn't remember. Well, if you were really worried about your security, 274 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 3: would you really, as a royal somebody worried that they 275 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 3: were going to be attacked, would you wander down a 276 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 3: busy London street ringing on doorbells to see if your 277 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 3: friend lived there. It seems very odd, But there is 278 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 3: video doorbell footage of these exchanges. These videos purport to 279 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 3: be from the time he was in London for the 280 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: court case, so it does seem more I think probably 281 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 3: in Harry's defense, what he means is he's worried about 282 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 3: the safety of his children and Meghan, among whom There 283 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 3: is a lot of. 284 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 4: Scorn from some people at the UK. 285 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 3: But whether it's as realistic and violent as Harry's making out, 286 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 3: I don't know. Sadly, he says he can't see a 287 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 3: time at the moment when he would bring his children 288 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 3: back over to the UK because he doesn't believe the 289 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 3: security is enough. 290 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 5: And I do remember a few years ago writing in 291 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 5: my piece and I'd put a source in there, and 292 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 5: some magazin nurse rang me up and said, can I 293 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 5: just double check this? This feels very close to the source. 294 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 5: Who's the sauce? And I said the sources X And 295 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 5: they're like, ah, okay, So you have to be very 296 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 5: careful with how you go about it. And I would 297 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 5: say the most important thing in this job, with what 298 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 5: you think it is. 299 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: Trust Now, Gavin, I often see reports quoting royal sources 300 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: or royal insiders who are sharing bits of gossip or 301 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: supposed feelings from a family member of the royal family, 302 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: someone close to the royal family, and I do I 303 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: always wonder who these sources are, How real are they are, 304 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: these proxies for the royals sharing stuff on their behalf 305 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: or is it like a made eavesdropping on something than 306 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: dming the Daily Mail. 307 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 4: It's a combination of different things. 308 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 3: First of all, there are tip offs that you get, 309 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: and they often come from people in and around the 310 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 3: starf of Buckingham Palace and the theyre households. There are 311 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 3: the communications teams, of course, who put out their statements, 312 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 3: but they also too may push a particular story or 313 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: an angle one way or the other. And Prince Harry 314 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 3: was always deeply, deeply against that and thought, you know, 315 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 3: it was Prince William's press officer against his press officer 316 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 3: and all the rest of it. It is, and they 317 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 3: do tend to work together, after all, they want to 318 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: maximize the publicity of the good that the roles are doing. It. 319 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 3: If they all went on high profile state visits all together, 320 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 3: only one of probably the King's visits would make headlines. 321 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 3: The others wouldn't get a headline. So they of course 322 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 3: they coordinate diaries. Of course they coordinate causes that they 323 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 3: want to support and lend publicity to. But yes, there 324 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 3: are those people then I think, frankly, you know, I 325 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 3: think there are some people who sit at home and 326 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 3: probably make quite a lot up and put it on 327 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 3: the internet as though a fact. So I think there's 328 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 3: a whole load of combination about these things. 329 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: It's been a tumultuous period for the royals. 330 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 2: You've got megxt, the Prince Andrew Epstein controversy, the deaths 331 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: of the Queen, and of course Prince Philip and the 332 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 2: double cancer diagnoses. Does it feel like the monarchy is 333 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: getting any closer to stability. 334 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 3: I think you're right. I think at the moment it's 335 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 3: in a state of flux. And part of that is 336 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 3: the uncertainty over the King's health. After all, he's not 337 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: been that long in the job. And the one thing 338 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 3: that you like with stability is a stability of the cast, 339 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: you know, the main players in the royal family. So 340 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: it has been now a decade, as you said, Prince Andrew, 341 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 3: Prince Harry, the death of Prince Philip, the death of 342 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 3: the Queen. It's been a very very difficult time for 343 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 3: the royal family to hold it together, particularly as I said, 344 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 3: in the eyes of the public. And it's a very 345 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 3: very deeply scrutinizing public and deeply scrutinizing social media world 346 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 3: that we live in. You really can't have any secrets 347 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 3: and everybody is watching your remove and I think we're 348 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 3: seeing that accidentally with Princess Catherine returning to work after 349 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 3: her remission a diagnosis for cancer. About everywhere she goes, 350 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 3: you know, the cameras are trying to zoom in and 351 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 3: see how she's looking and how has she changed in 352 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 3: the last year or so, and that must be very 353 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 3: difficult when you've got a she has three young children. 354 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Kevin. 355 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 4: My pleasure. Thank you very much, Chelsea. 356 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 357 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 358 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 2: at enziherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 359 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 360 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 2: a sound engineer. 361 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 362 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 363 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 364 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: behind the headlines.