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Speaker 1: With us.

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Speaker 2: Now we have Nikola Wulis, the Finance Minister. Nikola Hello,

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Speaker 2: hello Heather, Hey, before we get started, is there a

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Speaker 2: poll coming out with TV INZ tonight.

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Speaker 1: I understand there is.

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Speaker 2: Is it good for you guys or not?

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Speaker 1: Well, as we always say, poles bounce up and down

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Speaker 1: and all around. It is fair to say that this

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Speaker 1: one shows a different result from other polls that have

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Speaker 1: been published recently.

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Speaker 2: So for this one you start with a three instead

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Speaker 2: of a two.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to comment on it because I take

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Speaker 1: our obligations to TVNZ seriously and till I've taken that

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Speaker 1: news to their viewers, I shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Well stand by. We'll stand by now on Chorus, if

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Speaker 2: we sell the Chorus debt at how much of a

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Speaker 2: discount are we selling it?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly why we're going out to explore that

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Speaker 1: with the market. Essentially, Chorus already obligated to pay us

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Speaker 1: back lending that the Crown did to them, And what

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Speaker 1: we're investigating is if we gave that debt to someone

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Speaker 1: else to manage and we got paid back quicker, would

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Speaker 1: that be worth it for the Crown. So we need

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Speaker 1: to weigh what price would we get it for. What

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Speaker 1: could we use that money for today that would be

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Speaker 1: of value, What extra borrowing would that prevent us having

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Speaker 1: to do, and what would that be worth overall? So

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Speaker 1: we're going out to get a bit more information about

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Speaker 1: what the price would be that we could get for it,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll make some judgments about whether we proceed.

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Speaker 2: What if you I mean you must have crunch some

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Speaker 2: numbers to kind of have a fair idea of what

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Speaker 2: you would tolerate. Would you tolerate I don't know it

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Speaker 2: discount as big as thirty percent?

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Speaker 1: Well, it is a commercially sensitive transaction. So I don't

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Speaker 1: want to comment on that because I want to get

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Speaker 1: the best steal possible for the taxpayer, and any comments

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Speaker 1: I make at this point could foreclose the options. At

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Speaker 1: the current book value, the securities which we have have

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Speaker 1: a value of six hundred and forty two million, but

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Speaker 1: the actual value will depend on the market.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now, on the family boost. Nearly half of the

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Speaker 2: money it was revealed over the weekend as going to

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Speaker 2: families who earn more than one hundred and twenty thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars a year. Now, this can't be. What we want

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Speaker 2: to do is be putting money into relatively wealthy families pockets.

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Speaker 1: Do we well break that down and think about who

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Speaker 1: are those families. So the thing with family boaster is

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Speaker 1: you claim more depending on what level of fees you pay.

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Speaker 1: So you have to be paying three hundred dollars a

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Speaker 1: week or more to claim the full entitlement. So families

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Speaker 1: paying that amount of fees tend to be where mum

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Speaker 1: and dad are both working full time or both caregivers

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Speaker 1: are working full time, and so therefore they're eligible for

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Speaker 1: more support because they're paying more than fit in fees.

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Speaker 1: So it's always been designed to give a little bit

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Speaker 1: of help to those people who are working hard, paying

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Speaker 1: huge early childhood and education fees in order to be

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Speaker 1: able to work. So that's what the scheme's for. It's

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Speaker 1: for those battling parents who are out there trying to

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Speaker 1: do the right thing, working really hard, juggling like crazy,

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Speaker 1: and then they get hit by the big easy.

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Speaker 2: This is welfare, right, and we just don't have that

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Speaker 2: much money as a country. We should be giving welfare

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Speaker 2: to the people who actually can't afford it and the

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Speaker 2: rest everybody else just needs to make do, don't we.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is very targeted support, so to be eligible

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Speaker 1: for it, you still have to be under household income

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Speaker 1: over the course of a year, and you have to

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Speaker 1: be paying those ECE fees in the first place. It

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Speaker 1: was a cornerstone part of our tax relief package that

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Speaker 1: we campaigned on at the election because we said, look,

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Speaker 1: when we're offering tax relief, we want it for everyone

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Speaker 1: who's working, and we've delivered that. But we're also particularly

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Speaker 1: sympathetic to parents at that early stage when you're just

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Speaker 1: set upon by fees, because actually it should all be appreciating.

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Speaker 2: You should have simply get in tax relief. Then shouldn't

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Speaker 2: you let people keep more of their tax rather than

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Speaker 2: taking the tax and then redistributing it as welfare. It's

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Speaker 2: a rich one.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's the most expensive time in life when your

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Speaker 1: kids are in early childhood education because once they go

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Speaker 1: to school, that's free. But in that early stage, when

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Speaker 1: you've often also got a first mortgage or high rental costs,

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Speaker 1: where you're actually limited in your ability to return to

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Speaker 1: work full time, you really get hit by costs. So

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Speaker 1: we're upfront we're going to target extra relief at families

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Speaker 1: with young children. And actually, when I talked to mums

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Speaker 1: and dads up looking down the country and actually grandparents.

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Speaker 1: They say, well, of all the times in life, that's

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Speaker 1: the time to help.

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Speaker 2: Did you vote in the local body elections?

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Speaker 1: I did.

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Speaker 2: If anybody was going to get away with not voting,

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Speaker 2: I thought it was going to be somebody as busy

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Speaker 2: as you. All Right, when you opened your book phone, Nicoller,

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Speaker 2: were your heartened by the quality of the people. Was

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Speaker 2: there a moment where you thought, oh lord, here we go.

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Speaker 1: Well, look I'm in Wellington, right and so.

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Speaker 2: So it was o here we go.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I've been up front. What I want for

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Speaker 1: Wellington is for Wellingtonians not to face the rate increases

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Speaker 1: that they had in recent years. And what was quite

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Speaker 1: obvious to me was there was no one really running

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Speaker 1: a campaign message that was really clearly about that, with

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Speaker 1: a really clear plan.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't that Raye chungs But then he got tripped up

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Speaker 2: by the pendulous breasts?

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Speaker 1: There was that. But also you missed my second bit,

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Speaker 1: which was and a really clear plan to deliver it.

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Speaker 1: Oh you did. Well. I just think that spelling these

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Speaker 1: things out really helps. And look where we are. We've

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Speaker 1: got a new mayor that can only be a good

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Speaker 1: thing that he's got a clear mandate from the people.

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Speaker 1: We've got a new council and I want to work

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Speaker 1: really constructively with that new council to do good things well, given.

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Speaker 2: The turnout is so poor, do you know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm starting to come around to the idea that we

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Speaker 2: need some structural reform here. We actually probably need to.

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Speaker 2: We've got sixty seven territorial authority's probably about a thousand

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Speaker 2: local body politicians across the country, not a number I'm

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Speaker 2: making up. Do you not think that we need to

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Speaker 2: cut it right back?

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Speaker 1: Well, of what I'm increasingly of the view of is

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Speaker 1: that this whole postal voting thing is too complicated for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. Do you know it might be

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Speaker 1: a lot simpular if it was just turn up and vote,

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Speaker 1: Turn up to the booth, turn up to the place,

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Speaker 1: just as you do for general government elections, because I

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Speaker 1: just have sympathy for the people. You know, you get

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Speaker 1: the letter or you don't get the letter then and

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Speaker 1: you have to fill in the papers, then you have

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Speaker 1: to remember to seend them, and that's a lot of

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Speaker 1: steps in the process, whereas just bowling up to your

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Speaker 1: local voting place is quite simple. I'm not in favor

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Speaker 1: of online voting. I think that's open to all sorts

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Speaker 1: of problems, but I do think that we should be

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Speaker 1: having another lock at the voting system as a whole

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Speaker 1: to make sure as many people vote as possible.

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Speaker 2: Now, I am loving all the government agencies going after

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Speaker 2: the money that's owed to them or other people, and

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Speaker 2: the IDs obvious doing a great job here. But my

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Speaker 2: question to you is why has it taken so long

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Speaker 2: to recover debt that has been outstanding for five years?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it's a really good question. I actually spoke

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Speaker 1: with the ID about this today, and they made quite

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Speaker 1: a deliberate decision during COVID not to chase text debt

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Speaker 1: because they wanted to leave a bit of time for

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Speaker 1: everyone to get on their feet. But the problem is

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Speaker 1: we're still paying the price for that some years later.

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Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, the vast majority

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Speaker 1: of tax payers pay the text they owe by law,

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Speaker 1: and it's not fair on everyone else if some people

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Speaker 1: just shirk their obligation and so IRD are now chasing that.

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Speaker 1: We of course, as a government, have given them funding

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Speaker 1: to ensure that they can do audits, they can chase up,

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Speaker 1: they can do those things because for us it's about fairness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, brilliant. Hey Nicola, thanks very much, appreciate it. Nichola Willis,

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Speaker 2: Finance Minister. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen

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Speaker 2: live to news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,

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