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Speaker 1: A little bit of a change up to the way

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Speaker 1: the government is approaching eb Infrastructure grants will now turn

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Speaker 1: into loans, interest free lines, sixty nine million dollars worth

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Speaker 1: of them for the private sector to build charges up

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Speaker 1: and down this beautiful country of balance. The promise is

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Speaker 1: ten thousand. Of course by twenty thirty charging it. Board

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Speaker 1: member Stephen England Hall is whether Stephen, very good morning.

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Speaker 2: To you, Good morning mine.

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Speaker 1: Does the loan grant thing change the landscape or not?

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Speaker 2: Really? I think it does. Yeah, it certainly makes more

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Speaker 2: capital available for the development of infrastructure networks like ev charging.

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Speaker 1: What should in your view, the government's role in this

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Speaker 1: whole thing be if anys.

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Speaker 2: I think a government. Yeah, the government's role here is

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Speaker 2: really an enabler, and I think the approach with concessionary

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Speaker 2: loans does make that because it makes that role more formal.

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Speaker 2: Grants are really helpful to get US industry catalyzed and

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Speaker 2: off the ground, but we're at a point where were

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Speaker 2: trying to emerge into a scalable, rough bust sustainable model,

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Speaker 2: and so moving to a loans structure, almost a public

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Speaker 2: private partnership structure, really means that capital is going to

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Speaker 2: be allocated, and the competition to those people with great

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Speaker 2: business plans, good models, and good know how to make

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Speaker 2: these things happen.

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Speaker 1: Is the money at risk? Is anyone going to not

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Speaker 1: pay it back? Do you think?

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Speaker 2: Well, the money is always a risk when it comes

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Speaker 2: to a loan type facility, But we would expect that

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Speaker 2: with the appropriate structures and governance in place, the right

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Speaker 2: people will have, the right decisions will be made, the

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Speaker 2: money will be presented to the people with the right

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Speaker 2: capabilities and skills and sufficient capital themselves to see it through.

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Speaker 1: Of all the hurdles facing EV and the big EV story,

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Speaker 1: where do you reckon charges on the road side fits?

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to be one of the

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Speaker 2: bigger ones, just particularly as EV's continue to increase their

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Speaker 2: share of overall transport, the availability of charge points for

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Speaker 2: consumers world maybe individuals or businesses becomes increasingly necessary to

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Speaker 2: ensure that EV adoption continues to grow at a reasonable page.

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Speaker 1: So you would say that I would disagree with you.

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Speaker 1: I think most people who've got EV's charge in the

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Speaker 1: garage at night, don't they They pop out to their

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Speaker 1: ten k's to work their pop home the up overnight.

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Speaker 1: That's really what people are charging. The number of people

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Speaker 1: to charge on the street is minimal or am I

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Speaker 1: completely wrong?

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Speaker 2: No? I think at the current level we are seeing

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Speaker 2: most of eighty percent of charging generally speaking, happens at

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Speaker 2: home because it's gumly convenient. It's like having your own

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Speaker 2: petrol station garretts right downstairs. It's it's easy, it's convenient,

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Speaker 2: and it's really really cost effective, given that you know,

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Speaker 2: running an EV versus a petrol diesel car can be

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Speaker 2: as much as you know, seven times cheaper per kilometer

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Speaker 2: of use. If you're charging at home, that becomes the

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Speaker 2: economic brought you sort of. There's two things really happening.

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Speaker 2: One is when you're not at home and you're on

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Speaker 2: the road doing things or you're running a business, you

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Speaker 2: need high capacity, high speed charging. You're not going to

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Speaker 2: do that over a twelve hour periods. You want to

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Speaker 2: do that, you know, five or fifteen minutes to get

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Speaker 2: a decent range.

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Speaker 1: Which was my next question. Are these charges being rolled

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Speaker 1: out top of the line, in other words, they're going

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Speaker 1: to pump you full of gas fast or are we

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Speaker 1: going to get caught out? Technologically, well, the.

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Speaker 2: EV technology continues to change, but the key thing is

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Speaker 2: the charging unit itself is a relatively inexpensive part of

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Speaker 2: the installation of the charging ecosystem. It's connections to your

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Speaker 2: local limes companies that's building their infrastructure and transformers. That's

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Speaker 2: clearly widen the ground to put your charges in. That's

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Speaker 2: also really expensive. So long as that's well planned. The

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Speaker 2: EV charge itself will evolve over time. They're getting new

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Speaker 2: one and fast one and bigger ones. But I'll just

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Speaker 2: use the same underlying infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: Okay, text for you, texts, We've got text. You really

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Speaker 1: EV use the stations as car parks, you plug in

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Speaker 1: your park, you do it for free? Is that true

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Speaker 1: or not?

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Speaker 2: Well know, because the EV charger you usually pay, the

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Speaker 2: company that runs the EV charge point will be paying

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Speaker 2: ground rent for that for their parking space for that car,

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Speaker 2: And when you're charging, you're effectively charging both for parking

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Speaker 2: as well as for the energy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, second question. The trouble with super fast EV charging

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Speaker 1: stations is you need a small nuclear power plant charging site,

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Speaker 1: true or not?

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Speaker 2: Not true? You need you need proper distributed energy management,

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Speaker 2: so you've got proper tools to make sure you balance

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Speaker 2: the demand balance the network needs. Not for EV charges,

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Speaker 2: but for all electricity users.

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Speaker 1: All right, Steven, appreciate your expertise very much. Go well,

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Speaker 1: Stephen England Hall. Who's the charge net board member? I

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Speaker 1: can tell you by the way, speaking of cars and

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Speaker 1: EV's European car sales and March, you're up now. Why

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Speaker 1: am I telling you this because it's interesting because Tesla's

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Speaker 1: in the same market over the same period of time

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Speaker 1: went backwards twenty eight point two percent. So if you

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Speaker 1: don't think he's got an image problem, you're not awake for.

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Speaker 2: More from the Mic Asking Breakfast. Listen live to news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.