1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,600
Speaker 1: Ever, du for ze Ellen Huddle standing by going to

2
00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:04,280
Speaker 1: be with us shortly.

3
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:04,520
Speaker 2: Now.

4
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: On another subject, concerns have been raised about the shipyard

5
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: that the government has chosen to build our new cook

6
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,240
Speaker 1: Straight ferries. It's Guangzhou Shipyard International, which also builds warships

7
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,720
Speaker 1: for the Chinese Navy, and this has been identified as

8
00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,759
Speaker 1: a high risk shipyard by a Research Institute of Washington DC.

9
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,000
Speaker 1: Anne Marie Brady is a China expert in Canterbury University,

10
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:24,960
Speaker 1: Professor and with us Hi Ann Marie.

11
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:27,120
Speaker 2: Good to talk to you.

12
00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: He do you think it's a bit of a dodgy

13
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: choice on our part?

14
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,919
Speaker 2: It's it's quite a confusing signal that our foreignans are

15
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,199
Speaker 2: are sending us because we know that when he was

16
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,240
Speaker 2: Foreign Minister with the Duran government and with this governor,

17
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:49,879
Speaker 2: he's very concerned about the strategic infrastructure and also the

18
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,800
Speaker 2: harmful aspects of our relationship with China. So it's odd

19
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 2: that they have chosen a military shipyard, which is what

20
00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 2: the Guangdong Shipyard International is in Chinese. It's guang Trunk

21
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,640
Speaker 2: Would It's always been a military ship plutyard. It builds

22
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 2: the PLA navy vessels such as their Taipo two torpedo

23
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,760
Speaker 2: boat and high speed gun boats. They have also built

24
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:21,840
Speaker 2: their hospital. They're a military hospital vessel. So it's a

25
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 2: It's an unusual choice because the Fairies are strategic infrastructure

26
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,480
Speaker 2: for New Zealand. It's part of our national connectivity. So

27
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 2: you wouldn't want to give that kind of the contract

28
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,919
Speaker 2: for that kind of technology to the state that you're

29
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 2: so concerned about. I mean, we you know, China's did

30
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,679
Speaker 2: show of force in the Tasman Sea in February. The

31
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 2: SAS tell us that China is our main source of

32
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,919
Speaker 2: foreign interference and spans they're the main source state source

33
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,880
Speaker 2: of cyber attacks. China threatened economic coercion against US. You

34
00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 2: think about it. If it was nineteen eighty seven, so at

35
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 2: Union said hey, I've got a great deal for you

36
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 2: on your telecommunication networks, we'd say no, thank you. We'll

37
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,400
Speaker 2: certainly look powder and buy some laders from you, but

38
00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 2: we won't give you access to our strategic and for structures.

39
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 2: So it's just a bit of a confusion, confusing signal.

40
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 1: I think have you read about the US cranes that

41
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 1: have been built the Chinese cranes built for the US ports.

42
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, the US and the EU are looking really hard,

43
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,320
Speaker 2: and the UK are looking really hard, and Australia at

44
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,320
Speaker 2: strategic infrastructure and the dependency on China. And we've been

45
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,239
Speaker 2: through this already, you know our police.

46
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:39,960
Speaker 1: But I want to ask you something about the.

47
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,800
Speaker 2: CCT cameras, and they don't about the cranes.

48
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 1: So the thing about the cranes is that they're worried

49
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 1: that these cranes are able to have have had vulnerabilities

50
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,680
Speaker 1: put into them that the Chinese are then able to

51
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,760
Speaker 1: exploit at a time of their choosing, like a trojan

52
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 1: horse type thing, and then they can take control of

53
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,520
Speaker 1: the crane if they need them. Is that realistic? And

54
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,480
Speaker 1: the concern then is that the same thing maybe true

55
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 1: of the fairies. Is that realistic?

56
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:09,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, it is. Unfortunately, we are back into the

57
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 2: era of two worlds for strategic technology, and we are

58
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,800
Speaker 2: also really we've got a hot war in Europe and

59
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 2: we've got hybrid warfare in the Indo Pacific, and we

60
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 2: really have we do have a risk of war in

61
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:33,079
Speaker 2: our region too, unfortunately, So we cannot allow strategic technology

62
00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,240
Speaker 2: to be to be from a country where we have

63
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 2: at such a strategic risk as China. You think about

64
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 2: our New Zealand Navy boats, they're not made by China,

65
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,880
Speaker 2: They're made by Germany, Australia, Korea, and we actually had

66
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,040
Speaker 2: a deal with the Koreans and it's costing US six

67
00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy million dollars in break free fees. You

68
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,080
Speaker 2: don't reverse that fees at the Koreans.

69
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think most of us who care about

70
00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 1: money think this is one of the nuttier things that's happened. Listen,

71
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 1: An Marie, thanks so much appreciated. Add Marie Brady, China

72
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 1: expert in Cansbury University professor. For more from Heather Duplessy

73
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: Allen Drive, listen live to news Talks ed B from

74
00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,280
Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio