1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Right to the COVID inquiries who mentioned yesterday Britain's been 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: completed a or Britain's COVID Inquiry has been completing the 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: findings of damming and one of the major suggestions was 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: lockdowns may not have been needed, that the government had 5 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: their act together. Problem with ours is we keep getting resignations, 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: latest being Executive director Andrew Sweet Grant Illingworth k C 7 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: is the chair of the inquiry and is with us. 8 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: Good morning, it's good morning, Marke. 9 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: Do you have too many resignations? 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: No, we've got a situation where we have a delivery 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 2: deadline of the twenty sixth of February. We've got some 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 2: very very talented people who've been with us most of 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: the time. They've got to find employment for when we 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: finish our job. And it's perfectly natural that we've got 15 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: a bit of turnover at the moment. 16 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Are they turning over or leaving because they haven't enjoyed 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: the experience? All they have problems with the experience? 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 2: Well, there's nobody in the past several months who has 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: expressed any view that they are leaving it because they 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: haven't enjoyed the experience. 21 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: Why did Internal Affairs suggest that there's been some staff 22 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: problems and some problems have been raised with them. 23 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: Look, in every organization you get people bumping up against 24 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: each other. We have a new team. Trying to get 25 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: everyone into their right lanes is not always easy, but 26 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 2: we have had the incredible fortune of having people who 27 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: are just so skilled in their areas that it's very, 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: very impressive, and overall the staffing issue has not been 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: a big issue at all. 30 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: Helen Potarchy left after five months. 31 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: Why look, Helenson titled at her privacy. I've had discussion 32 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: with her and have agreed not to comment on her decision. 33 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: You're perfectly welcome to contact if you wish. 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: It just goes sort of against what you're saying people. 35 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: If she'd say, look, I'm leaving. I'd love to stay, 36 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: but I'm leaving because I've got to go find other 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: work after this, you know, it wouldn't be. It just 38 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: seems to me that we've got issues here, and all 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm interested in is why have we got issues? And 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: are the issues are holding up the overall inquiry. 41 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: Well, I'm looking about the current situation. The current situation 42 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: is that a couple of people have been offered very 43 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 2: good jobs and they're leaving for that reason. There is 44 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: no big drama within the organization and indeed we are 45 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: well on top of the task that we've been given 46 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: to do. We expect to be able to finish the 47 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 2: job on time within budget, which is possibly going to 48 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: be a record for a Royal Commission of Inquiry in 49 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: New Zealand. 50 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: Why did Andrew Sweet leave? 51 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 2: Look, you can talk to Andrew. He's made a public 52 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: statement about what he wants to do. Again, it's not 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: my business to spected for him. He is a delightful character. 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 2: He came in at a time when things were under 55 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 2: a bit of pressure. He managed to get things on 56 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: track in a way which was incredibly impressive. And we 57 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: have you know, he's been a person of great value 58 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 2: and he's moved on to another opportunity. 59 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: See how long is this whole process in total grant 60 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: from the day you guys started to the day you finished. 61 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: Let's say you finishing foebeurreyd next year. How long is 62 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: this whole project? 63 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: Well, I was appointed as a commissioner in phase one 64 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: at the very end, so I'm in a slightly different position. 65 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: And I understand that. But how long's faced it? How 66 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: Long's COVID inquiry two point zero. How long does it last? 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: Beginning to end? 68 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: From the beginning is to none November last year, end 69 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: is twenty sixth February, So this coming year a. 70 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: Year in a bit. 71 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: Yep. 72 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot of resignations for if you're taking 73 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: on a job that's only lasting a year, that's a 74 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: lot of resignations within a twelve month period, isn't it. 75 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: No, it's not when you consider the people involved, the opportunities, 76 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 2: so they have, the contributions they make. It's a lot 77 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: different from the inside down from the outside. 78 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: Well, that's why we've got you on. I'm trying to 79 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: look at it from the inside. Something's going on. And 80 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: if you ring me up grant and go make twelve 81 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: month job, come and help us sort COVID. I'm in. 82 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: I'm all in, and I'm in for the twelve months 83 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: because I've made a commitment. Not so we'll see how 84 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: we go, and I might quite after five months doesn't 85 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: ring true to me? 86 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: Well, it matters not whether it rings true to you. 87 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: It rings true to me. I'd been there all the 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: time and we haven't had a situation where things where 89 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 2: the wheels are falling off quite the opposite. It's started 90 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: off with some meeting this in terms of where we 91 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 2: were going in our timeline, because frankly we had to 92 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 2: learn as we went. But things came right very early 93 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 2: in this year and have gone well ever since. It's 94 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: a high pressure job because we're doing a massive inquiry 95 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: within a very short space of time. When you compare 96 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: what we're doing to what other inquiries that have done overseas, 97 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: I mean, if you ever look, if you ever look 98 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: at the UK Inquiry, we are very small. 99 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: Indeed, does it I take it you've looked at the 100 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: UK Inquiry? Could you conclude something similar to what they've concluded, 101 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: and that is that lockdowns weren't needed. 102 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: They haven't concluded that. 103 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: What I read over the weekend, they seem to conclude 104 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: that very clearly. 105 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: Well, you've concluded you've read it wrong. The situation there 106 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: is Baron Baroness Halett has said that they should have 107 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: acted more urgently at the beginning, much more urgently at 108 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 2: the beginning. It took it very casually and they should 109 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: have established things like masks and spacing and all the 110 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: rest of it. And if they had done that, it 111 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: might possibly have. 112 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: Eliminated name not needed. 113 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: It might possibly have done that. I personally find that 114 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: difficult to accept. 115 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: But when you compare, when you compare that to what 116 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 3: happened in New Zealand, they had twenty six thousand deaths 117 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 3: between March and April. 118 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: In early twenty twenty, we had one, and over the 119 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: whole of twenty twenty our total deaths attributed to COVID 120 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 2: were twenty five. So you're just not talking any You're 121 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: not making a sensible comparison if you try to compare 122 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: what happened here with what happened there. 123 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: Even though we locked down at exactly the same day, 124 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: in fact, almost to the day, we locked down at 125 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: the same time. 126 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: We did, but we did so in different circumstances and 127 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: for different reasons. And by the way, i'm talking out 128 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: a turn because Phase two is not reconsidering twenty twenty. 129 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: We've got a different focus, which is twenty twenty one, 130 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: when our government faced some very difficult decisions as Delta arrived, 131 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: Auckland lockdown. How long do you keep the lockdown going 132 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: for all of these things matters that we've looked at 133 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: with in intense detail over the past few months, and 134 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: or will be revealed when our our report comes out 135 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: the beginning of next year. 136 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: And I appreciate your time, Grant Hillingworth, KC. What do 137 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: you make of that? For more from the mic Asking Breakfast, 138 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: listen live to News Talks at B from six am weekdays, 139 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.