1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Labour has offered to help National create a policy costing unit. 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: It's piped up because neither ACT nor New Zealand First 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: want to help National, thereby killing the idea the unit 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: would cost and verify political parties election promises. David Seymour 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: was the leader of the ACT party and with us. Hello, David, Hey, 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: how would you feel if National goes behind you back 7 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: and does this with Labor? 8 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: Well, I didn't know this was a psychology show. It's 9 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: not about my feelings. But one thing I can tell 10 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: you is that the government has a position, which is 11 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: that we oppose this policy and we expect each other 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: amongst the three parties to vote together. Sometimes there are 13 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: things that one of the three or two of the 14 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: three parties even are not particularly happy with, but we 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: will go to the House and vote together on the issue. 16 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: So I don't know about feelings, but that would be quite 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: a departure from the way the government operates. 18 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So you would expect that National will not take 19 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: Labour up on this offer. 20 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: As a matter of collective responsibility. The National members are 21 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: part of a cabinet that forms the government, which is 22 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: agreed that we're not doing this. So you know, everything's 23 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: open to negotiation in life, but that would be your 24 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: starting point. 25 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: What is your problem with the idea? 26 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: Well, I think you've got to ask what problems it's solving. 27 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 2: You know, as a party, actors put out fully costed, 28 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 2: comprehensive alternative budgets every year that we've been in opposition. 29 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: Everyone has agreed that the accurate and fear may not 30 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: agree with the policies, that that's okay, that's politics. But 31 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: we seem to be able to do it, so we 32 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: don't see the need for it. As for the problem 33 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: with it, a couple of things. One is, I don't 34 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: like this idea that we New Zealanders are all kind 35 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: of a need of a bureaucracy to tell us what's 36 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: right and good or accurate. The truth is that the 37 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: bureaucracy frequently gets things wrong. They are a good bunch 38 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: of New Zealanders, but they're not more correct the rest 39 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: of us. Second of all, the bureaucracy or the government 40 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 2: the government departments are held in check by New Zealanders 41 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: going to the polls and voting and elections to change 42 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 2: the direction of policy and basically keep them under control. Now, 43 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: for the bureaucracy, to be involved in the very process 44 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: and effectively become a referee or a judicator of the 45 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: very process that is supposed to hold it in check 46 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: creates a difficult loop constitutionally. It also means that the 47 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 2: bureaucracy is going to be involved and assessing and making 48 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: judgment calls about the nature of policies that political parties 49 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: are putting forward, so it politicizes them. There's no good 50 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: reason to do it, no need for it, but there's 51 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: a lot of reasons why you might not want to 52 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: do it. Key amongst them is digging in this idea 53 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: that somehow, if you work for a government department, you're 54 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: a higher authority than any other New Zealander. 55 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: David, thank you, appreciate your time. That day smore ex 56 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: Party leader For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 58 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.