1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,867 Speaker 1: from Newstalks, edb. 3 00:00:12,667 --> 00:00:16,547 Speaker 2: Irish rugby journalist and broadcast Murray can Sell up as 4 00:00:16,547 --> 00:00:18,267 Speaker 2: well as Murray. Thanks for tacking the time to join 5 00:00:18,307 --> 00:00:20,107 Speaker 2: us across New Zealand. What was your view on the 6 00:00:20,627 --> 00:00:22,787 Speaker 2: yellow cad the app gride to Raid for Todd Burn. 7 00:00:24,067 --> 00:00:25,667 Speaker 3: I have to say I was surprised. I thought they 8 00:00:25,667 --> 00:00:28,987 Speaker 3: were gonna keep it a yellow. Certainly that's the feeling 9 00:00:29,107 --> 00:00:32,227 Speaker 3: in Ireland. There's a sense of grievance there. But as 10 00:00:32,227 --> 00:00:35,187 Speaker 3: any Farrell himself pointed out after the game, Ireland managed 11 00:00:35,187 --> 00:00:38,387 Speaker 3: that period well and they were in front obviously and 12 00:00:38,747 --> 00:00:40,547 Speaker 3: led into the second half and there's other things that 13 00:00:40,547 --> 00:00:43,147 Speaker 3: will frustrate them more. But certainly a lot of shock 14 00:00:43,187 --> 00:00:44,307 Speaker 3: in Ireland over that decision. 15 00:00:44,827 --> 00:00:47,947 Speaker 2: What are the other things then that will frustrate Ireland more? 16 00:00:48,347 --> 00:00:52,147 Speaker 2: Andy Farrell in the in the senior leadership team. 17 00:00:52,147 --> 00:00:54,587 Speaker 3: Their line out for starters had a really tough night 18 00:00:54,627 --> 00:00:57,347 Speaker 3: against the brilliant All Blacks defense and that's been a 19 00:00:57,387 --> 00:01:00,427 Speaker 3: familiar image in the past. I thought the Kiwi Ford's 20 00:01:00,427 --> 00:01:03,147 Speaker 3: did a great job and disrupting them there because both 21 00:01:03,147 --> 00:01:05,387 Speaker 3: sides lost their line out leaders earlier on Scott Barrett 22 00:01:05,427 --> 00:01:08,747 Speaker 3: goes and to burn Goes obviously as well. But you'd 23 00:01:08,787 --> 00:01:10,907 Speaker 3: have to say New Zealand adjusted to that setback a 24 00:01:10,947 --> 00:01:13,747 Speaker 3: lot better than Ireland did. They didn't give themselves a 25 00:01:13,827 --> 00:01:16,747 Speaker 3: platform to attack from the scrum was an issue as well. 26 00:01:16,827 --> 00:01:19,987 Speaker 3: New Zealand got momentum there and I think generally Ireland 27 00:01:20,107 --> 00:01:23,307 Speaker 3: just lacked that hiller edge, that accuracy in putting away 28 00:01:23,387 --> 00:01:25,147 Speaker 3: chances when they were in good positions. Think of the 29 00:01:25,187 --> 00:01:27,587 Speaker 3: big moment of the game. We're on the sixty minute mark, 30 00:01:27,627 --> 00:01:30,187 Speaker 3: Ireland are attacking in New Zealand twenty two a pass 31 00:01:30,227 --> 00:01:33,107 Speaker 3: from Jack Crowley isn't held by Jamie Osborne and a 32 00:01:33,187 --> 00:01:35,467 Speaker 3: minute just down the other end of the pitch in 33 00:01:35,467 --> 00:01:37,307 Speaker 3: New Zealand hack Ford and they win a turnover as 34 00:01:37,387 --> 00:01:39,667 Speaker 3: Quintupai a big moment from him kicking in the corner 35 00:01:39,707 --> 00:01:41,907 Speaker 3: and they score a try and that really is the 36 00:01:41,947 --> 00:01:44,107 Speaker 3: big swing in the game. And I think it summed 37 00:01:44,147 --> 00:01:46,747 Speaker 3: up how Ireland just failed to have that yet, that 38 00:01:46,867 --> 00:01:47,947 Speaker 3: accuracy and key. 39 00:01:47,787 --> 00:01:51,387 Speaker 2: Moments after that point that you've mentioned and yes, absolutely 40 00:01:51,467 --> 00:01:54,387 Speaker 2: pivotal moment, turning point. What did you see play out 41 00:01:54,387 --> 00:01:56,507 Speaker 2: in the last twenty minutes that allowed the Old Blacks 42 00:01:56,547 --> 00:01:59,667 Speaker 2: to score the tries and the points that saw them 43 00:01:59,707 --> 00:02:02,627 Speaker 2: eventually stretch out to a thirteen point victory. 44 00:02:03,787 --> 00:02:06,187 Speaker 3: Well, they got a brilliant impact from their bench, didn't they. 45 00:02:06,187 --> 00:02:08,507 Speaker 3: And I know Ireland had been confident around that day, 46 00:02:08,987 --> 00:02:11,747 Speaker 3: a pretty punchy looking bench themselves, you know, Kaitlin Darris 47 00:02:11,787 --> 00:02:14,267 Speaker 3: coming back and big players like that. But I thought 48 00:02:14,267 --> 00:02:17,587 Speaker 3: it was the New Zealand replacements who made a greater impact. 49 00:02:17,667 --> 00:02:20,147 Speaker 3: I thought, to mighty, Williams obviously did really well, well, 50 00:02:20,147 --> 00:02:22,547 Speaker 3: the tt did really well. Both of them scored and 51 00:02:22,587 --> 00:02:25,427 Speaker 3: they just brought an energy to that final quarter because, like, 52 00:02:25,507 --> 00:02:28,267 Speaker 3: let's be honest, New Zealand for large parts of that game, 53 00:02:28,707 --> 00:02:31,387 Speaker 3: you know looked average enough. They didn't look at their 54 00:02:31,507 --> 00:02:35,187 Speaker 3: most clinical or you know, fluid best. But I thought 55 00:02:35,227 --> 00:02:37,107 Speaker 3: in the final quarter it did really click for them, 56 00:02:37,107 --> 00:02:40,947 Speaker 3: and well they're really difficult to stop. Ireland really struggled 57 00:02:40,987 --> 00:02:42,787 Speaker 3: to get a grip on them and they finished right 58 00:02:42,827 --> 00:02:45,987 Speaker 3: over the top. So I think that combined with the 59 00:02:46,187 --> 00:02:48,427 Speaker 3: really crucial artists of a try in the first half, 60 00:02:48,427 --> 00:02:52,027 Speaker 3: when Ireland, despite their twenty minute red card, will feel 61 00:02:52,067 --> 00:02:55,467 Speaker 3: they were kind of controlling matters to just stick in 62 00:02:55,507 --> 00:02:57,227 Speaker 3: the fight there was key for New Zealand, and then 63 00:02:57,227 --> 00:03:00,347 Speaker 3: they finished powerfully. I think we saw their attacking class 64 00:03:00,347 --> 00:03:03,667 Speaker 3: as well. I thought the citt trying in particular, where 65 00:03:03,707 --> 00:03:06,147 Speaker 3: Boden Barratt just really calm in the face of the 66 00:03:06,227 --> 00:03:09,307 Speaker 3: aryeh Rush defense. He kind of slows his feet, he delays, 67 00:03:09,307 --> 00:03:11,707 Speaker 3: he waits for McKenzie to pick that space and in 68 00:03:11,787 --> 00:03:14,027 Speaker 3: a way they go behind. So some real class in 69 00:03:14,307 --> 00:03:15,707 Speaker 3: big moments at the end of the game. 70 00:03:16,107 --> 00:03:18,147 Speaker 2: Marie, you make a great point about, you know, the 71 00:03:18,867 --> 00:03:21,187 Speaker 2: I guess a little bit of frustration, maybe an opportunity 72 00:03:21,227 --> 00:03:23,027 Speaker 2: lost for Ireland. I mean they did control the game 73 00:03:23,067 --> 00:03:25,827 Speaker 2: even down to fourteen, up to the al mark and 74 00:03:25,867 --> 00:03:27,787 Speaker 2: the turning point that you talked about. What will they 75 00:03:27,827 --> 00:03:30,067 Speaker 2: look at this as an opportunity lost. 76 00:03:31,467 --> 00:03:34,067 Speaker 3: I think they will, I really do. And the frustration 77 00:03:34,147 --> 00:03:36,027 Speaker 3: for Ilands. Now it's three defeats in a row to 78 00:03:36,027 --> 00:03:38,787 Speaker 3: New Zealand. Obviously prior to that, Ireland had a pretty 79 00:03:38,787 --> 00:03:41,387 Speaker 3: good record against New Zealand were maybe getting used to 80 00:03:41,427 --> 00:03:44,387 Speaker 3: winning these games. And it's a worrying trend I suppose, 81 00:03:44,427 --> 00:03:47,747 Speaker 3: because there was quite similar marks to this game as 82 00:03:47,827 --> 00:03:51,507 Speaker 3: last year. This time last year in November in Dublin 83 00:03:51,867 --> 00:03:53,827 Speaker 3: when the Albass came and won on a very similar 84 00:03:53,907 --> 00:03:56,667 Speaker 3: score line as well, and Ireland were disappointed with their performance. 85 00:03:56,707 --> 00:03:58,787 Speaker 3: So a lot of kind of similarities to that. It's 86 00:03:58,827 --> 00:04:01,587 Speaker 3: the start of the November window. Ireland, as was much 87 00:04:01,627 --> 00:04:03,827 Speaker 3: discussed in the lead up, lots of their players didn't 88 00:04:03,827 --> 00:04:06,147 Speaker 3: have a huge amount of game time. They tried not 89 00:04:06,147 --> 00:04:08,427 Speaker 3: to make an excuse of it, but I think that 90 00:04:08,427 --> 00:04:11,267 Speaker 3: does contribute a little bit to that lack of sharpness 91 00:04:11,307 --> 00:04:14,267 Speaker 3: in you know, being accurate with their skills. They'll back 92 00:04:14,347 --> 00:04:17,147 Speaker 3: themselves to get better across this window, but you know, 93 00:04:17,387 --> 00:04:21,027 Speaker 3: tonight's shows again that the quality of the top teams 94 00:04:21,067 --> 00:04:23,467 Speaker 3: at the top level, you have to be playing an 95 00:04:23,507 --> 00:04:25,107 Speaker 3: eight out of ten and nine out of ten every 96 00:04:25,147 --> 00:04:27,147 Speaker 3: time if you're going to be winning them, and Ireland 97 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:28,107 Speaker 3: certainly weren't that. 98 00:04:29,147 --> 00:04:32,787 Speaker 2: From a wider viewpoint, do Ireland need to regenerate this 99 00:04:32,907 --> 00:04:35,507 Speaker 2: squad in the next two years hitting to the twenty 100 00:04:35,587 --> 00:04:37,027 Speaker 2: twenty seven Rugby World Cup. 101 00:04:38,707 --> 00:04:42,027 Speaker 3: They do, They've spoken about that challenge. One of the 102 00:04:42,067 --> 00:04:45,027 Speaker 3: issues is and I think everyone else apart from South 103 00:04:45,027 --> 00:04:47,707 Speaker 3: Africa and France, is envious of their debt and the 104 00:04:48,227 --> 00:04:50,507 Speaker 3: quality of player they have to choose from. We don't 105 00:04:50,507 --> 00:04:52,867 Speaker 3: really have that in Ireland. However, I think there are 106 00:04:52,907 --> 00:04:56,507 Speaker 3: players who have been pushing towards getting chances of Ireland 107 00:04:56,507 --> 00:04:58,267 Speaker 3: who'll feel they have a greater chance that in the 108 00:04:58,347 --> 00:05:01,347 Speaker 3: next couple of years, because yeah, there's a sense that 109 00:05:01,827 --> 00:05:04,147 Speaker 3: you know, it's lacking a little bit of a zip 110 00:05:04,147 --> 00:05:07,067 Speaker 3: and energy at the moment. That team, actually, the players 111 00:05:07,107 --> 00:05:09,067 Speaker 3: who were fresher faced and who made me weren't as 112 00:05:09,187 --> 00:05:12,427 Speaker 3: familiar to to the New Zealand audience did really well. 113 00:05:12,467 --> 00:05:14,747 Speaker 3: I thought like Tommy O'Brien on the wing, he had 114 00:05:14,787 --> 00:05:17,907 Speaker 3: great energy and performance. Seuer mccosky's been around that group 115 00:05:18,747 --> 00:05:20,267 Speaker 3: a lot in the last years, but he hasn't had 116 00:05:20,267 --> 00:05:21,707 Speaker 3: a big start like that for a while and he 117 00:05:21,827 --> 00:05:24,067 Speaker 3: was excellent. Ryan Baird had some big moments as well. 118 00:05:24,147 --> 00:05:28,387 Speaker 3: So yeah, that's really important, that kind of regeneration into 119 00:05:28,427 --> 00:05:31,667 Speaker 3: the next World Cup because you'll have to say, as 120 00:05:31,707 --> 00:05:34,547 Speaker 3: thinks stand Darland, yeah they're playing catch up with the 121 00:05:34,667 --> 00:05:35,587 Speaker 3: biggest teams. 122 00:05:36,507 --> 00:05:38,667 Speaker 2: What's your assistment where the Oblecks are at? Then I'd 123 00:05:38,707 --> 00:05:41,467 Speaker 2: be interested to know what your your viewers of where 124 00:05:41,747 --> 00:05:44,107 Speaker 2: the ol Bleck's hours. We approached the midway point of 125 00:05:44,107 --> 00:05:45,547 Speaker 2: this World Cup cycle. 126 00:05:47,267 --> 00:05:49,867 Speaker 3: Well, for sixteen minutes of that game, I have to 127 00:05:49,867 --> 00:05:52,587 Speaker 3: say I wasn't totally impressed with I thought at times 128 00:05:52,587 --> 00:05:55,427 Speaker 3: they looked a little bit about uncertain about what they 129 00:05:55,507 --> 00:05:58,467 Speaker 3: wanted to do or what their their plan was. But wow, 130 00:05:58,547 --> 00:06:01,867 Speaker 3: those bursts of brilliance that I described a little earlier 131 00:06:01,947 --> 00:06:06,107 Speaker 3: on continue to make them irresistible at times. So there's, 132 00:06:06,347 --> 00:06:10,187 Speaker 3: you know, the absolute quality core of world class players there, 133 00:06:10,387 --> 00:06:14,347 Speaker 3: individuals who are absolutely unplayable at times when they're at 134 00:06:14,347 --> 00:06:17,787 Speaker 3: their their best. I think it at times they just 135 00:06:17,867 --> 00:06:19,707 Speaker 3: don't look like they can control the game the way 136 00:06:19,747 --> 00:06:22,907 Speaker 3: that they they want to. But I think credit is 137 00:06:23,187 --> 00:06:25,027 Speaker 3: deserved because in a game like that, it would have 138 00:06:25,027 --> 00:06:28,187 Speaker 3: been easy for them to get frustrated. Ireland were controlling 139 00:06:28,267 --> 00:06:31,867 Speaker 3: territory at times and giving themselves opportunity. But yeah, there 140 00:06:31,947 --> 00:06:34,907 Speaker 3: was a great mental a great mental grit in New 141 00:06:34,987 --> 00:06:38,187 Speaker 3: Zealand's play. Like the reality is top international rugby now 142 00:06:38,747 --> 00:06:42,947 Speaker 3: there's very little between quite a big group of teams 143 00:06:42,987 --> 00:06:45,227 Speaker 3: and there's gonna be lots of games like that where 144 00:06:45,627 --> 00:06:46,987 Speaker 3: the balance of the game and the flow of the 145 00:06:46,987 --> 00:06:49,507 Speaker 3: game seems to be going against you. Bush, You've got 146 00:06:49,547 --> 00:06:51,947 Speaker 3: a stick in the fight and New Zealand did that 147 00:06:52,187 --> 00:06:54,667 Speaker 3: in a big way and when they got their opportunities 148 00:06:54,747 --> 00:06:58,187 Speaker 3: laid on, they absolutely took them. So yeah, it's been 149 00:06:58,227 --> 00:06:59,867 Speaker 3: it's been eye opening actually this week just to be 150 00:06:59,907 --> 00:07:01,747 Speaker 3: around New Zealand a bit more and get a sense 151 00:07:01,787 --> 00:07:05,587 Speaker 3: of I suppose perceptions and pressures that are there for 152 00:07:05,667 --> 00:07:09,227 Speaker 3: Scott Robertson and his coaches, but we certainly look from 153 00:07:09,227 --> 00:07:12,227 Speaker 3: our share angle and think where there's amazing talent in 154 00:07:12,267 --> 00:07:14,547 Speaker 3: that team that you'd be a little bit envious of 155 00:07:14,827 --> 00:07:16,027 Speaker 3: at times. 156 00:07:16,027 --> 00:07:17,987 Speaker 2: Wonderful stuff. Murray, thank you so much for joining us. 157 00:07:18,027 --> 00:07:19,907 Speaker 2: Might really appreciate you, Tom. I know you're a busy 158 00:07:19,947 --> 00:07:22,507 Speaker 2: man after test matches of this magnitude, so thanks for 159 00:07:22,547 --> 00:07:23,387 Speaker 2: taking time for us. 160 00:07:24,387 --> 00:07:27,907 Speaker 3: Cheers looking forward to the next battle already were we 161 00:07:27,987 --> 00:07:28,587 Speaker 3: are to Murray? 162 00:07:28,587 --> 00:07:32,467 Speaker 2: Thanks indeed, Murray can seller there very highly regarded journalist 163 00:07:32,507 --> 00:07:35,747 Speaker 2: and broadcaster out of Ireland with his views. 164 00:07:36,467 --> 00:07:39,627 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 165 00:07:39,747 --> 00:07:43,027 Speaker 1: to news talks it'd be weekends from midday or follow 166 00:07:43,067 --> 00:07:44,627 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.