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Speaker 1: Now a new report has found the university fees free

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Speaker 1: policy is a dead weight and should be scrapped. You'll

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Speaker 1: remember the policy. This is one brought in by Jasinda

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Speaker 1: Ardern next year's on us and then this government swapped

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Speaker 1: it to be the third year that was free, not

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Speaker 1: the first year. But the Ministry of Education report has

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Speaker 1: found there's no evidence that more people are signing up

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Speaker 1: for unique courses because of it. Gabriel Boyd is Auckland

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Speaker 1: University Students Association President with US.

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Speaker 2: Hello Gabriel, Hi, hethero Thank you for having me on.

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Speaker 1: Very welcome. Do you agree that it's not working?

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Speaker 2: I think to call it a dead weight is quite unfair.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it worked exactly the way the government planned.

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Speaker 2: But I would like to point out a couple of things.

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Speaker 2: I think the first being obviously, enrollments haven't seen the

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Speaker 2: spake that the government wasn't tending, but we don't know

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Speaker 2: the counterfactual. We don't know enrollments have been decreasing since

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Speaker 2: I believe two thousand and nine, and we don't know

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Speaker 2: what the case would have been had the fees free

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Speaker 2: schem not been implemented in the first place. I do

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Speaker 2: also want to point out in terms of reducing debt

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Speaker 2: levels for students, even assuming that enrollments weren't bumped at

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Speaker 2: all by this policy, I think the twelve thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: that students saved that they can then put towards accommodation, food,

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Speaker 2: transportation with this cost of living does make a huge impact.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, obviously there are greater considerations than that.

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Speaker 1: How much money the country's got, which is not a lot.

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Speaker 1: So if it hasn't done what it's designed to do,

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Speaker 1: should we just scrap it?

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Speaker 2: I don't think we should scrap it. I think the

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Speaker 2: government should look at I think more creative ways of

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Speaker 2: implementing it. Obviously, you have the Labor Plan the first

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Speaker 2: year free, which was the whole purpose of that obviously

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Speaker 2: to reduce the parity at universities, which doesn't look like

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Speaker 2: it worked out. National then comes in and says final

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Speaker 2: years free, and it doesn't look like retention or completion

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Speaker 2: was really helped by that very much either. I think

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Speaker 2: a hybrid model whereby first year is free contingent on

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Speaker 2: the completion of a degree. I think that would not

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Speaker 2: only sort of push what Labor and National were hoping

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Speaker 2: to get out of Gabriel, I think it.

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Speaker 1: Didn't reguy that it had no impact whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: Even they never tried first year free contingent on completion.

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Speaker 1: But but but we did first year free contingent on

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Speaker 1: nothing and it didn't. It didn't push up, it didn't.

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Speaker 1: It just did not push up enrollments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, again, we don't know the Kinnter factual. Enrollments have

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Speaker 2: been decreasing steadily over time. Obviously, it's we're not in

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Speaker 2: a vacuum. We do have COVID to look at as well,

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Speaker 2: and to claim I think the broad claim that had

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Speaker 2: this not been implemented, the enrollment numbers would have been

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Speaker 2: the exact same. I don't think that's a completely fair

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Speaker 2: claim to make.

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Speaker 1: All right, Gabriel, thanks very much, appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Mate.

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Speaker 1: That's Gabriel boyd Auckland University Students Association President. For more

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