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Speaker 1: Heather Duplessy Ellen Now on the books, the Education Minister

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Speaker 1: is cutting marti words from future editions of some books

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Speaker 1: used to teach reading to five and six year olds.

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Speaker 1: The books in question are from the Ready to Read

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Speaker 1: Phonics Plus series. Now Professor Gail Gellen from the University

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Speaker 1: of Canterbury was one of the people who led the

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Speaker 1: development of that series and is with us now, Hey,

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Speaker 1: Gail Kyoda header has Erica got a point that kids

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Speaker 1: need to learn the phonics sounds in one language before

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Speaker 1: they then switched to the phonic sounds in another language.

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Speaker 2: Well, the evidence that we have would suggest that our

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Speaker 2: five year old children are coping very well with the

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Speaker 2: inclusion of just a few koupon mariti in these early readers.

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Speaker 2: We have evidence from over twenty nine thousand five year

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Speaker 2: old children from across the country who are using these

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Speaker 2: readers as part of our Better Start literacy approach, and

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Speaker 2: the teachers are doing a wonderful job and using these

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Speaker 2: readers to really improve children's literacy skills.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so tell me about this evidence. So have we

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Speaker 1: done a test here where we've selected a group of

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Speaker 1: kids and we've given them just one language in the

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Speaker 1: phonic sounds, and then another group of kids with two

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Speaker 1: languages and phonic sounds and seeing how they compare to

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Speaker 1: each other.

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Speaker 2: No, we haven't done that type of experimental research. The

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Speaker 2: research we have done, though, has shown that the approach

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Speaker 2: that uses these readers in a controlled way. Through using

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Speaker 2: these readers compared to using other types of literacy approaches,

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Speaker 2: has shown that the better stant literacy approach is more

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Speaker 2: effective than other approaches. So we have data at that

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Speaker 2: large group level to show that these readers being included

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Speaker 2: in the year one teaching approach is working really well.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, Okay, so, Gail, So we don't know if

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Speaker 1: better Start just English is better than better Start English

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Speaker 1: plus Mari.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Marty we're talking about is a few koupoo, Mary, No, I.

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Speaker 1: Do understand and listen. I'm pro MARII language. Don't get

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Speaker 1: me wrong. Don't think that I'm not into this. I'm

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Speaker 1: like wholeheartedly into it. But we don't know for sure,

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Speaker 1: do we because we haven't actually tested this.

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Speaker 2: Well, we haven't tested Mary versus English as teaching media.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So then, so, Gail, doesn't it stand to reason

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Speaker 1: just using common sense that when you're trying to teach

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Speaker 1: kids English. It's it's difficult enough with the phonetic sounds, right,

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Speaker 1: You've got a for aviation, A for apple for apple.

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Speaker 1: Now you're chucking an a for hour. It's going to

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Speaker 1: get really confusing for these little dudes, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, English is confusing in itself. Why of course, how

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Speaker 2: these words are introduced are in the same way as

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Speaker 2: that we introduce a number of words in English that

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Speaker 2: are also confusing, in other words, that are simply told

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Speaker 2: to the child as they read the line of text.

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Speaker 2: So it's no more confusing introducing a word like kai

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Speaker 2: or manu or kapa hakka than it is introducing a

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Speaker 2: word like said or they.

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Speaker 1: But that's my point. I mean, and I'm saying this

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Speaker 1: because I'm trying to teach my boy to read at

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Speaker 1: the moment, and I'm all, I'm not going well bloody

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Speaker 1: hard because English is just so so messed up. But

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Speaker 1: the thing is, I and I'm not trained in this,

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Speaker 1: so obviously I'm going to make huge mistakes. But what

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Speaker 1: I am finding is that already trying to explain to

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Speaker 1: him the aberrations that we have in English is bloody

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Speaker 1: hard enough without chucking in or o as well. So

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Speaker 1: then my question is, I mean, does it not mean

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Speaker 1: are we going to offend people if we just let

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Speaker 1: the first three years be exclusively English phonetic and then

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Speaker 1: we chuck the Marty sounds and after year four maybe well.

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Speaker 2: Of course in English we're integrating to our Mary all

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Speaker 2: the time. So this is an opportunity as we begin

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Speaker 2: to teach our readers right from five, to introduce just

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Speaker 2: a few Kooper Maria into those texts. Now, remember this

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Speaker 2: is in the context of some beautiful stories that are

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Speaker 2: really relevant and purposely written for our New Zealand cultural context,

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Speaker 2: and the teachers have support and how to gradually introduce

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Speaker 2: these words alongside the English words that they're using. So

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Speaker 2: it's not like we're putting a whole lot of Marty

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Speaker 2: words into one book. They're gradually introduced. And the evidence

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Speaker 2: is very clear here that the data we have from

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Speaker 2: twenty nine thousand children is suggesting we are not confusing

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Speaker 2: children by using these readers. Well with Marty, some of

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Speaker 2: the readers.

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Speaker 1: With respect our kids cannot read properly in this country.

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Speaker 1: So we haven't got great evidence, have.

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Speaker 2: We We do from the better start at Tricia approach.

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Speaker 2: That's where you're wrong. We published this data. We have

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Speaker 2: very clear evidence that the better start the Tricya approach,

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Speaker 2: which uses these readers as part of the teaching approach,

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Speaker 2: is significantly accelerating reading, spelling, oral language, phonics and phony

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Speaker 2: awareness of our five and six year old children. Listen

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Speaker 2: that research is published internationally.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate and you're the experts. I will defer

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Speaker 1: to you. Thank you, Professor Gal Gillen, director of the

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Speaker 1: Child well Being Institute at the University of Canterbury. For

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Speaker 1: more from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive, Listen live to news

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