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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister this Tuesday morning. Very good morning to you,

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Speaker 1: just really quick if we can, because I've got bigger

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Speaker 1: fish to fry, the Kirabas thing between Peters and the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister. The present prison says yesterday that that has

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Speaker 1: that been sorted or not.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it's Winston's dealing with it. I mean

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Speaker 2: he was making a point very clearly, which is we've

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Speaker 2: got to have engagement. We send a lot of aid

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Speaker 2: money there and you know we've got to be able

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Speaker 2: to meet with them. And he's done a great job.

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Speaker 2: He's met with fifty five different leaders in counterparts. We

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Speaker 2: want to meet with Carabas.

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Speaker 1: But was this just simply a misunderstanding so the aid

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Speaker 1: will flow? There was a or are they playing silly buggers?

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Speaker 2: I think genuinely. You know he had meetings set up.

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Speaker 2: I think they were canceled two or three times. And

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Speaker 2: we just want to make the point we need to beat.

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Speaker 2: You know, we make a big contribution to the Carabas.

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Speaker 2: We want to continue to do so, but that needs

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Speaker 2: we need to engage, right Unra.

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Speaker 1: So there's a British Israelis on the phone to Kiyostama

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Speaker 1: over the weekend and she's been released. She says she

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Speaker 1: was kept in a UN headquarters facility while she was

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Speaker 1: a hostage. Now are we know you clearly don't know

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Speaker 1: about that, but we reviewed funding for that UN agency

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Speaker 1: last year. When you hear that, why are we funding

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Speaker 1: those people?

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Speaker 2: Well, again, you know, we had an issue and a

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Speaker 2: concern earlier last year. If you remember, we talked about

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Speaker 2: I think six months before we made our one million

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Speaker 2: dollar payment by the end of thirtieth of June last year,

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Speaker 2: and we reassured ourselves after the investigation that actually it

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Speaker 2: was all legit and it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Are you reassured now when you well, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, I'm sure it's something that Winston will look out

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Speaker 2: again if there's any concerns there. But I mean, I

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Speaker 2: just don't want to go off reports that I haven't been.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Winston. So there was a business Desk story

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Speaker 1: this week. Months after the announcement, you still hadn't set

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Speaker 1: up the schedule whatever company to chase down some fairies. Remarkably,

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Speaker 1: Winston's put out a press release this morning just before

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Speaker 1: your appearance on this program, saying things are all he's

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Speaker 1: very good, credible, so he's off to buy the fair

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Speaker 1: so are you still setting up a company? How is

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Speaker 1: it so difficult to buy a couple of ships?

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Speaker 2: Well, No, all that he's doing is based off the

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Speaker 2: time plan that we have. He's actually got some time

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Speaker 2: up until the end of March to look upon whether

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Speaker 2: there's a better way to improve the offer that we

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Speaker 2: put together at the end of last year. So that's

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Speaker 2: all he's doing with that press statement today is making

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Speaker 2: sure that he kicks off that process and then obviously

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Speaker 2: locks in on what they preferred. If he can improve

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Speaker 2: on what we put together as a cabinet at the

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Speaker 2: end of last year, great, If he can't, great because

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Speaker 2: we've got a good plan.

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Speaker 1: I didn't ask you about this last week because I

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Speaker 1: didn't have time, But was the handing off from Nikola

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Speaker 1: Willis to Winston Peters as the newly fomed Minister of

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Speaker 1: Ships the worst moment of your tenure so far. You

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Speaker 1: took months to do nothing. Just before Christmas you announced

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Speaker 1: Winston's the Minister of Ships. I mean, what the hell's

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Speaker 1: that about?

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Speaker 2: No, Look, I think you know, like Winston's got great

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Speaker 2: expertise in rail he knows it well, he's passionate about it.

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Speaker 2: He's the right person to leave all.

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Speaker 1: Those months you were mucking around last year to the wharf.

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Speaker 2: No, we were actually trying to get a grip on

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Speaker 2: what the situation was, and that's been a lot of

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Speaker 2: what the first twelve months was about. Whether it was

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Speaker 2: the need in hospital, where it was fairies, whether it

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Speaker 2: farmac drugs are funding. You know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: stuff we're trying to work out as we work our

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Speaker 2: way through those box as to what we're actually standing on.

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Speaker 2: And I think, yeah, I get it. You know, you

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Speaker 2: think it took too long, But at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, we've got time. The fairies get replaced in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty nine. Winston's got a window to improve on

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Speaker 2: the deal. If you can, great, If not.

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Speaker 1: We if I watched, as I watched the KAENTUK, you

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Speaker 1: get toed back into port over the summer holidays. Yet again,

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Speaker 1: do you really have to twenty twenty nine or more

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Speaker 1: like twenty twenty six, we do. I just look like bollocks.

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Speaker 2: Well no, I disagree they can. It's about maintenance and

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Speaker 2: I think here we rail like you get you know,

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Speaker 2: a transport company, a trucking company or an airline. You

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Speaker 2: can have assets and they need to be well maintained,

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Speaker 2: and you know, when we've seen some of the challenges,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's on key. We rail to make sure

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Speaker 2: that they're investing in the right way, keeping those assets

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Speaker 2: in tiptop condition and the repairs and maintenance are up

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Speaker 2: to scratch.

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Speaker 1: The Ted Cruz thing over the weekend, has that been sorted?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean as you can see, you know, as

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Speaker 2: you know I met with Ted Cruz actually in July.

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Speaker 1: We got on very well.

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Speaker 2: But you know, they went off on some misinformation and

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Speaker 2: you know, very clearly Israelis can come to this country

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Speaker 2: without having under the visa waiver program, without actually having

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Speaker 2: to even apply.

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Speaker 1: For a visa.

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Speaker 2: The article where he reacted to, they have withdrawn on

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Speaker 2: their article, which is.

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Speaker 1: Good, okay, Wayne Brown, And I assume he's correct in

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Speaker 1: saying this and talking about tourism and getting more people here.

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Speaker 1: The government should reciprocate China's policy of allowing New Zealand

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Speaker 1: as visa free access of visiting China for less than

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Speaker 1: thirty days. Do we not do that?

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Speaker 2: Well, there are some challenges about how we can power

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Speaker 2: up the Chinese tourists.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we just open the door and say welcome, Well.

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Speaker 2: That's that's that's exactly what we're talking about that I've

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Speaker 2: got the digital momads going off. But that's also something

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Speaker 2: that Louise Upson and Nicola what us are looking at

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Speaker 2: right now at with Erica Stamford.

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Speaker 1: Should they be looking at something a little bit faster?

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Speaker 1: Once again, are you caught short? I mean, why is

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Speaker 1: it I can go to China apparently visa free, and

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Speaker 1: they can't come here visa free. Why don't we reciprocate

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Speaker 1: and get on with this?

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Speaker 2: Well, again, it's one of the where we're looking at

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Speaker 2: whatever we can to turn tourism them on fast because

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Speaker 2: it doesn't need any.

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Speaker 1: Here that ru reciprocation. So Wayne Brown's actually onto this

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Speaker 1: willan Brown Tourism is better at tourism than the ministry.

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Speaker 1: Is that why you say? Matt Doocy?

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Speaker 2: No, No, I just say to you that we are

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Speaker 2: looking at everything we can do. There's those issues, but

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Speaker 2: there's other issues that we can do in too.

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Speaker 1: What are the problems, what are the whole what's the

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Speaker 1: hold up of reciprocating something that they already give us.

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Speaker 2: There will be there'll be genuine immigration concerns. Well, just

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Speaker 2: to make sure the.

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Speaker 1: I'm coming here for a seven day holiday.

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Speaker 2: What's the sure But we've got to make sure that

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Speaker 2: that actually works well.

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Speaker 1: And so you know how come they can do it

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Speaker 1: and we can't.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're looking at it, I'm telling.

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Speaker 1: You, But you're at eighty seven percent are of pre

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Speaker 1: and you've already articulated in your growth, growth, growth strategy.

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Speaker 1: One of the areas we need to move on is tourism.

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Speaker 1: Wayne Brown's doing the thinking.

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Speaker 2: For and we're doing digital nomads, and we're also looking

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Speaker 2: at this, and we're looking at a bunch of other things.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the word you're looking Why are you still

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Speaker 1: looking at not doing?

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Speaker 2: Because you actually do need to actually make sure you've

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Speaker 2: got good policy in place.

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Speaker 1: Are you worried about the Chinese? Is there's something there

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Speaker 1: that I don't know about.

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Speaker 2: We're no, We're just making sure that we get our

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Speaker 2: immigration settings right and that we actually think through it.

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Speaker 1: It's not immigration's tourism.

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Speaker 2: It's tourism, but it's about visa settings and making sure

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Speaker 2: we just get that we're.

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Speaker 1: Very open to Chinese. What is what's the problem? If

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Speaker 1: they do it for us, why can't we do it

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Speaker 1: for them today? Stroke of appearing executive Barder.

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Speaker 2: Let's get on with this, and New Zealand needs to

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Speaker 2: make sure when it looks at visas and when it

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Speaker 2: looks at all those things, that it thinks through all

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Speaker 2: the consequences.

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Speaker 1: Are we worried about that something there that you need

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Speaker 1: to tell me.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at visas around international students. It's linked to that.

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Speaker 2: It's also linked to tourism. There's a whole bunch of

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Speaker 2: things we.

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Speaker 1: Need to do. Okay, So Shane Jones, the Bank of

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Speaker 1: New Zealand, how is it possible that the Bank of

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Speaker 1: New Zealand wants to close down coal mines and writes

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Speaker 1: to them and says you can't have a card debit credit?

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Speaker 1: Think why?

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Speaker 2: It's utterly unacceptable, utterly unacceptable. And that's what we've got

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Speaker 2: to change. And we've made it very clear in our

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Speaker 2: comments and I hope the bank CEOs are noticing our language,

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Speaker 2: which is you've got to finance things that Kiwis need

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Speaker 2: and not financing service stations or coal companies. Those are

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Speaker 2: things that New Zealand needs are going for big time.

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Speaker 2: And so whether it's been the Beans, heat on service

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Speaker 2: stations or any other other banks, their job is not

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Speaker 2: politically posturing. Their job is to finance the things that

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Speaker 2: Kiwis need.

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Speaker 1: Have you told them that? I mean, apart from now,

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Speaker 1: we'll make.

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Speaker 2: It very clear. We made it pretty clear of the

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Speaker 2: last week. And you know we've got a Select Committee

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Speaker 2: inquiry going on as you had. No that's about competition, sure,

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Speaker 2: but as we but on this particular issue, we're very

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Speaker 2: happy to call back in the chairs and CEOs discuss

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Speaker 2: this exact issue is can you.

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Speaker 1: Under this or is Shane Jones going to have to

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Speaker 1: do something about that law?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think the banks need to realize

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Speaker 2: that actually the public of New Zealand want them to

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Speaker 2: give them a fair and better deal. They don't want

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Speaker 2: this political posturing going on. And actually, when you sit

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Speaker 2: there and you know we came out on the Ben's end,

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Speaker 2: you know they want to not fund service stations in

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Speaker 2: provincial New Zealand for example. Well, we've got two to

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Speaker 2: three percent electric vehicle penetration at the moment. It ain't

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Speaker 2: going to change in a hurry and frankly that's not

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Speaker 2: their decision exactly.

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Speaker 1: So will you need to pass some sort of law.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're open to looking at whatever we need to.

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Speaker 2: I personally think haul this, cheers and CEOs and ask

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Speaker 2: that specific question. Get them back in front of that

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Speaker 2: inquiry again.

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Speaker 1: On although so we signed the Paris thing, Well.

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Speaker 2: Again they their job is to finance the things that

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Speaker 2: New Zealanders need. These are legitimate businesses. Actually you cannot

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Speaker 2: if you don't want to finance a mining company. Well,

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Speaker 2: we need critical mineral to actually make the transition to

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Speaker 2: clean energy growth. Well, I don't know how much clearer

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Speaker 2: we can be, but we're sort of losing a lot

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Speaker 2: of patience as with the best parting it about it.

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Speaker 1: Well, and why is Shane Jones leading this? Well, it's

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Speaker 1: a way that we all feel. We all feel very sore.

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Speaker 1: You're on locksteps. So at New Zealand first, and yeah, it's.

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Speaker 2: Unacceptable, unacceptable that actually we've got banks making decisions not

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Speaker 2: to finance things that Kiwis desperately need.

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Speaker 1: Right, so we can say now on this program because

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Speaker 1: they'll all be listening, it stops now.

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Speaker 2: We want yep. And if the CEOs are hearing me

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Speaker 2: clearly right now, we are incredibly frustrated about it. It's

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Speaker 2: not right, go back and revisit your policies.

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Speaker 1: On Okay, is acting right that we need to think

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Speaker 1: about getting out of Paris.

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Speaker 2: No, because we're acting in New Zealand's national interests and

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Speaker 2: we want to grow the economy. And I'm telling you

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Speaker 2: now coming out of Paris is not the way you

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Speaker 2: grow the economy. That would just punish farmers. And you've

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Speaker 2: got to remember ten thousand dollars every man, woman, a

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Speaker 2: child in this country comes from agriculture. And I can

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Speaker 2: tell you right now, large multinational companies, competitive countries from

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Speaker 2: Europe would love to substitute New Zealand products on shelves

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Speaker 2: with European products and that ain't gonna happen. And so

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Speaker 2: you know, that's why we're acting briefally in New Zealand's

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Speaker 2: national in trists because we want to power up economic growth.

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Speaker 2: And I can tell you're coming out of Paris would

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Speaker 2: really hurt economic growth.

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Speaker 1: The treasury stuff that's floating around this morning.

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Speaker 2: That's why, sorry, Michael, that's why as a cabinet we

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Speaker 2: all agreed, all the parties in that cabinet agreed on this.

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Speaker 1: Understood. Are you going to play with the corporate text

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Speaker 1: rates soon or not?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're open to looking at all our tax settings

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Speaker 2: that encourage its growth. I'm not going to win this

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Speaker 2: budget and this budget. Yeah, so we could be talking

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Speaker 2: about corporate text cuts this budget. I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: talk about what those measures may be. So you're looking

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Speaker 2: at the tanks cut, we're looking at where we're open

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Speaker 2: to looking at taxation measures, and there's a range of

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Speaker 2: them that would actually incentivize and encourage growth. How can

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Speaker 2: you cut corporate I mean, good on you, well done,

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Speaker 2: get on with it. How can you cut corporate and

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Speaker 2: leave at thirty nine the top rate then, because you'll

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Speaker 2: have issues? Well, again, i'm not going to talk about

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Speaker 2: it as a theorytics of that theory. I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to talk about theory of it either.

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Speaker 1: No theory, no idea.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not fair going into a budget conversation

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Speaker 2: to be talking about our text politible discussion.

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Speaker 1: How do you lower corporate while keeping the top rate

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Speaker 1: and the gap being too high?

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Speaker 2: Well, the challenge we've got is how do you drive

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Speaker 2: more economic productivity?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, couldn't agree more?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, low tax rates one way, the.

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Speaker 1: Investments and that's what I want to hear. Lower, lower

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Speaker 1: the top rate, lower the corporate get on with it again.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at that, Well, we're looking at our text

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Speaker 2: settings as you heard heard Nicholas say yesterday as well.

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Speaker 1: And will they be implemented as a what next year election?

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Speaker 1: You it's part of our budget this year, but to

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Speaker 1: go you don't do it instantly, You'll be doing it

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Speaker 1: for next year.

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Speaker 2: But we want to be able to announce things at

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Speaker 2: the budget.

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Speaker 1: So you're announce the budget to go into election.

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Speaker 2: You with text cuts, we will I'm not there was

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Speaker 2: close enough enough. Will you fix that? What do we

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Speaker 2: want the text? We've opened to look at the texting.

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Speaker 2: But there's a range of things you could do that

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Speaker 2: would incentivize actual more growth and the actually what you

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Speaker 2: could you think about people investing in technology and adoption

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Speaker 2: of There's a whole bunch of things you could do

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Speaker 2: around Monka.

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Speaker 1: Nice to talk to you. I appreciate Prime Minister Christopher Lexon.

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Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 1: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.