1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Much. It's right. Standard techs fees number is nine two 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: ninety two. Had it very so on that later on 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: more bad news unfortunately for you. On the kids writing skills, 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: a new study out today shows that one quarter of 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: year eights, so year eight is what is that the 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: last year of intermediate. One quarter of the kids in 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: the last year of intermediate can write at the level 8 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: that's expected by the government. One quarter. The stats show 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: that writing skills decline the older that kids get, so 10 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: forty one percent of kids in year three are at 11 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: the expected level, thirty three percent in year six, and 12 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: then by the time they're in year eight it's less 13 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: than a quarter of them. The Education Minister's answer to 14 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: that is a new make it Right action plan and 15 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: ERICA stand for the education ministers with us, Hey, Erica, Hello, 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: how are you? I'm well? Thank you? 17 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: You know what? 18 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: It blows my mind that we've tolerated this consistent decline 19 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: in our standards for so long. How has this happened? 20 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: Well, the first thing to say is no longer, because 21 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: we have been looking at these dot points on the 22 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: decline graph for decades and doing nothing about it. These 23 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: this study was done in twenty twenty four. So I've 24 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: asked for baselines, baselines against the new curriculum expectations. So 25 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 2: to be fair, this is against the expectations we now 26 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: have against the new curriculum where we want children and 27 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: know they need to be benchmarked against the rest of 28 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: the world. And so it has dropped slightly from you know, 29 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: like thirty thirty percent under the old measure against the 30 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 2: old curriculum which was you know, britt wafflely and vague, 31 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: and when we are more specific and have higher expectations 32 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 2: compared to the rest of the world, you know, we're 33 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 2: down around twenty four. So that's the first thing to say. 34 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 2: It is against the expectations of the new curriculum, but 35 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: it was done last year before we introduced all of 36 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,919 Speaker 2: our reforms this year. So I've got these now baselines. 37 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: So when we go out at the end of this 38 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: year and assess again, we will now be able to 39 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: plot each year against the before shot, and the before 40 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: shot is grim. 41 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: You will be able when you're at the improvements. Yeah, 42 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: your plan make it right? Well, how does that work? 43 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: What's what's the basics of this? 44 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 2: Well, essentially it's plugging a gap in writing. So we 45 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: already have the new English Curriculum Structured Literacy mandate at 46 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: all of the intervention teachers, the professional learning and development. 47 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: This is for those children that are in year six 48 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: to eight who will not have all of the benefits 49 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: of those things coming through primary that they've already missed 50 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: it there at sex six to eight, and their parents 51 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: are looking at this decline in maths and literacy and thinking, well, 52 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: they're about to go to high school. And we always 53 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: said we will wrap around these children. So the Writing 54 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: Acceleration Tool is based on one hundred and twenty thousand 55 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 2: children at intermediate school getting additional supports through a digital 56 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: tool which helps them to practice and reinforce their writing 57 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: alongside the teacher doing their explicit teaching. There's a new 58 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: handwriting guide out for our primary school kids which is 59 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: handwriting is absolutely crucial to reading and developing literacy. And 60 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: we're also and this is a real shame we have 61 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: to do this, but we do. We have to train 62 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: a teacher in every single intermediate and high school in 63 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: structured literal, which is essentially teaching kids to read. And 64 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 2: it's a it's a not a great place to say 65 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: that we have to do that. Because that, but that 66 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: shows you the level of decline of our students at 67 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: secondary schools are saying we need to teach kids to read, 68 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: so we'll be providing that to secondary schools as well. 69 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: Erica, how do you feel about what I considered to 70 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: be reasonably unfair accusations that you that you are some 71 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: sort of a racist for taking set all Mai words 72 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: out of these early learning reading books. 73 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: Oh look, it's you know what happens when you're a politician, right, 74 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 2: you know there are experts on one side that say 75 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: one thing, experts on the other that say another. I 76 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: think we tried to find a pragmatic way through. There 77 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: was never really going to please some people, and you 78 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: saw that last week. But essentially these books are to 79 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: teach children the it's called graphemes and phonemes, which are 80 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: essentially the letter by letter, sound by sound, how you 81 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: sound out words. There's seventy five books, twenty six of 82 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: them have Marti words and them nothing's changing. Yeah, we 83 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: just have to write another eighteen and we're going to 84 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: make sure we use Mary words. 85 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: I think that's how you feel about it, because because look, 86 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: I was reading the Sunday papers and Tracy Watkins, who 87 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: I actually have a lot of respect for, has basically 88 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: had to crack at you for it, which I was 89 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: very disappointed in because I thought your argument stacks up. 90 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: You are, you are almost like annoyingly woke to me, 91 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: and so I don't think that you deserved it at all. 92 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: And I just wonder if sometimes we're too quick to 93 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: jump to must be a racist. 94 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: Well, I think I mean, to be honest with you, 95 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: when I made these decisions, I thought the opposite was 96 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: going to happen, because we created an entire series in 97 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: Today a Marti to teach kids how to read in 98 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: the Marrii language. We've also from next year going to 99 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 2: have in the English curriculum how to pronounce the Mary 100 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: letter sounds and vowel sounds. So when kids do come 101 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: across a Mari word, which we do in everyday life, 102 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 2: and you and I might see the word fun out 103 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: and know how to say it, but they don't. So 104 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 2: now they'll be able to decode in both languages. But 105 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: you know, no one picks up on the good news, 106 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: They just go straight to the hey. In the new 107 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: books you're on, including Marty names and place names, well 108 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 2: actually that's a lot more than the existing books because most, 109 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: in fact, threequarters they're almost three quarters of the existing 110 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: books or maybe two thirds don't have any Marty words 111 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: at all. So I've tried to find a really pragmatic 112 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: way through. 113 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: But not being rewarded for it, unfortunately. 114 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 2: I think the frustrating thing is, if I'm gonna be 115 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 2: honest with you, is that I just want kids to 116 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: learn to read. That's what I care about. I'm not 117 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: interested in a culture war. I want kids to learn 118 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: to read, and we have been failing miserably, and we've 119 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: got to turn it around. Now. 120 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: If you carry on being like this, you realize that 121 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: the rumors about you being a future leader is just 122 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: going to ramp up. 123 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: Ay, Well, yes, what was that keeps writing that? Yes? 124 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: What I see you sounded like that was awkward. 125 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: Well it was because you're the one that keeps writing 126 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: about it. I'm just trying to do my job being 127 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: a great master of education. 128 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: It's not me. It was Andrey of Vance. Anyway, Listen, 129 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much. And when I say Andrew Vance, 130 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: and Andrew Vance, Oliver Hartwitch and all of these people, Erica, 131 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: thanks so much. Go well, Erica, Stanford Education Minister. There's 132 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: more on that, by the way, because Luxon will just 133 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: be like, oh, can you please stop talking about it, 134 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: but everybody continues to talk about it, so we'll give 135 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: you the next installment on it. For more from Heather 136 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to news Talks. It'd be 137 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.