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Speaker 1: When down to Sanza.

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Speaker 2: Well, then this is the angels. I'm going to come

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Speaker 2: back to this and we've just got to deal with

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Speaker 2: some serious news. By the way, nine two ninety two

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Speaker 2: is the text number good news if you hate scaffolding.

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Speaker 2: Health and Safety Minister Brook van Velden has announced that

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Speaker 2: not all maintenance at height will be required to use

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Speaker 2: scaffolding in their work. Minister is going to be consulting

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Speaker 2: with the industry to figure out exactly how to do this.

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Speaker 2: Julian Lais is the chief executive at the Building Industry Federation.

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Speaker 1: Hey Julian, Hey, heathern.

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Speaker 2: How are you well? Thank you mate. So if Brook

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Speaker 2: comes to you and says, right, how do we change it?

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Speaker 2: What do we do? What are you going to say

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Speaker 2: to her?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I've got to say, Brooke, it's all about the detail.

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Speaker 1: And so what we want to do is ensure, of

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Speaker 1: course health and safety, but also reduce some of the costs.

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Speaker 1: And everyone hates scaffolding as much as they hate road cones.

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Speaker 1: But we shouldn't forget that. You know that scaffolding there

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Speaker 1: is there for a reason, and you know any height

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Speaker 1: can be dangerous.

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Speaker 2: So no, Julian, you're not that guy. Are you like,

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Speaker 2: oh you'll stay. Oh look that you're half a meter

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Speaker 2: off the ground. We need some scaffolding for you. Are

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Speaker 2: you that guy?

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Speaker 1: I'm saying we need to be mindful that we don't

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Speaker 1: put paste before prudence and make these reforms. I think

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Speaker 1: there's are balance and so I think we should say.

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Speaker 2: But I agree with you, we've gone way too far

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Speaker 2: in the other direction, wouldn't you agree?

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Speaker 1: I think we have to some extent. I think so

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Speaker 1: this is about sort of bringing back a middle ground

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Speaker 1: where we don't do away with with those things that

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Speaker 1: were put in there in place for a reason, and

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't forget here that that most people then end

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Speaker 1: up in eds are blokes that are falling of ladders, right, so.

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Speaker 2: Are they starting? I don't want to protect stone people

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Speaker 2: like this is the thing?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: I think so one day that this is the worst

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Speaker 2: example for me. You have been to Wellington, you right,

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Speaker 2: you drive along Evans Bay Parade. You got those little

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Speaker 2: little boat houses there. I was driving bass Wood like

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Speaker 2: that when the boat houses when the little I don't

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Speaker 2: know my building terms, you know, you're the apex of

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Speaker 2: the roof and then it goes down to the bottom

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Speaker 2: like sort of the easy bit and that two of

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Speaker 2: them joined, and there was the triangle at the bottom,

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Speaker 2: you know, like the gully of the roof if you

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Speaker 2: want to call it. That that thing wouldn't be far

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Speaker 2: off my shoulder right, and they had scaffolding to work on.

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Speaker 1: That.

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Speaker 2: That's silly, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Well indeed, so look, the Minister will be consulting with

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Speaker 1: the industry and there will be you know, hopefully standards

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Speaker 1: and a guidance that says for certain low risk activity.

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Speaker 1: Then as long as you've got these other things in place,

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Speaker 1: which might be ladders with braces or you know, a harness,

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Speaker 1: that that's a good compromise. So I think let's wait

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Speaker 1: and see what But I think we'll see you be sharing,

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Speaker 1: along with Chas and the other Health and Safety body,

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Speaker 1: some clear practical guides that hopefully achieve a middle grade Gillian.

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Speaker 2: Don't you think that for the most part we could

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Speaker 2: get around the safety issue with a harness and not

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Speaker 2: require massive amounts of scaffolding.

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Speaker 1: Well, it all depends on the nature of the project,

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Speaker 1: how big it is, how high it is. So in

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Speaker 1: some cases it might be you know, if if it's

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Speaker 1: a reno being done on a existing residential house. Possibly yes,

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Speaker 1: Like like your example Evans Bay, if you're working at

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Speaker 1: four or five stories, probably not okay.

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Speaker 2: So I think I think most of it well, I

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Speaker 2: think we probably would agree with each other. But but

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Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not loving the fact that you came

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Speaker 2: in kind of with a negative attitude. So are you

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Speaker 2: going to be like, are you going to be the

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Speaker 2: breaks on brooks Idea?

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Speaker 1: Are you not the breaks? Just just the voice of

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Speaker 1: sanity Heather.

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Speaker 2: No, this is the wrong thing to say, now, I

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Speaker 2: really you are going to be the breaks. Hey. By

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Speaker 2: the way, I love what's going on with the jib

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Speaker 2: board and all these alternative products you know, from from

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Speaker 2: from from other parts of the world where you know

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Speaker 2: we have we have similar thinking. Problem would be how

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Speaker 2: much confidence do we have that the likes of Bunnings

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Speaker 2: and Mighty ten are actually going to stock them?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Look, I think you know they will stock what

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Speaker 1: what what the merchants want, sorry, what the trade's want,

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Speaker 1: and what the specifies the architects and others want. Knowing

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Speaker 1: that's knowing if it's available in the market, they will

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Speaker 1: bring it in and they will bring it and if

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Speaker 1: it's good quality and if it's at a certain price,

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Speaker 1: it'll come in.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that this is good? Because if I

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Speaker 2: was a builder, I just you know, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: I'd probably I'd have enough things going on in my

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Speaker 2: life not to have to worry about whether I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get alternative jib. So I'll just stick with what

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Speaker 2: I know. So if everybody just sticks with what they know,

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Speaker 2: nothing changes. So is this going to rely on the

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Speaker 2: customer to actually start agitating.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think it'll rely on It will rely on

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Speaker 1: the homeowners and customers, but it'll flow through the entire

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Speaker 1: supply chain. So it's going to be you know, as

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Speaker 1: I say, the architects as well, including the builders, because

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Speaker 1: there'll be a bit of awareness on their part. They'll

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Speaker 1: they'll want to try alternative products if they are cheaper,

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Speaker 1: but if they still meet code. So it's not going

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Speaker 1: to happen overnight. But I think it just means that

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Speaker 1: people will have greater choice as long as you know,

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Speaker 1: the system allows us to judge those criteria accordingly and

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Speaker 1: we don't get you know, dodgy product coming into the market.

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Speaker 2: Julian, thanks very much, appreciate your time. That's Julian Lay's

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Speaker 2: chief executive of the Building Industry Federation. For more from

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Speaker 2: Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd

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