1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: Yet another report into the way we treat some of 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: our kids. Since twenty twenty one, twenty four kids have 3 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: been killed, most under five, and they are all known 4 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: to the state agencies. Of course, we find the system 5 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: has gaps, no kidding. Major recommendations from earlier reviews haven't 6 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: been implemented, no kidding. Aaron Jones is the Independent Children's 7 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: Monitor Chief executive and is with us. Aaron, very good 8 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: morning to you. 9 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, good morning to hear mate. 10 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: Awfully depressing, this isn't it? It is, yeah, and has 11 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: been for years And I don't know how many interviews 12 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: I've done on the subject, and nothing changes will it 13 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: ever so? 14 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: And that's the point. We've had reports after reports over 15 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 2: decades now that are calling for improvements to a child 16 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: protection system, and those changes aren't happening, or certainly aren't 17 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 2: happening fast enough. 18 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: My long held view is we ask too much of 19 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: the agencies. In other words, you were dealing with a 20 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: slice of New Zealand, as small as it may be, 21 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: that is so depraved and unusual. No agency can realistically 22 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: be expected to do miracles. Basically, is that unfair? My thing? 23 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: It's a real is challenging work and You're right. We've 24 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: got a real issue in New Zealand and terms of 25 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 2: domestic violence, family violence and then harmed children, and there 26 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: are some deep seated issues that go well beyond what 27 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: these agencies can do to respond. But at the end 28 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: of the day, there's certainly things that can be improved 29 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: for those agencies. That's what Dame Karen was calling out 30 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: their recommendations and it's hardening to see that the last 31 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: year government finally accepted all of those recommendations she made 32 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 2: and now they're going to put some things in place, 33 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: and our jobs to see whether those things are making 34 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: a difference. 35 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: The lack of implementation up to this point. Is that 36 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: deliberate or in competence or both. 37 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 2: I think it's about prioritization, and you know, it's making 38 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: sure that this is front and mind of not just 39 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: ordering a tambriki, but all government agencies that have a 40 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: role to play. And it is really disappointing that we've 41 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: not seen the progress. You know, only two of the 42 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: recommendations that Dame Karen made had been implemented by the 43 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: time we finished this report. 44 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: The old argument that you don't pull league kids out 45 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: of the families enough and get them out and away. 46 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: And that's highly political, moral, social, racial, the whole thing. 47 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: Is there something in that or not. 48 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: Look, a child protection agency has to remove kids when 49 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: they are in harm's way and when that's the right 50 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: thing to do. But at the end of the day, 51 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: kids generally they want to be with their parents. They 52 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: just want the harm to stop, and there's an important 53 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: role to play about how we prevent an intervene early. 54 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: You know, this is the investment approach, Mike, that you're 55 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: here to actually help and prevent things escalating and then 56 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 2: ultimately harm happening to kids. And that's what we're talking 57 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: about in this report is how can we invest in 58 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: community agencies who can do their intervention and prevention work 59 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: so that they don't come to the attention of adding 60 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: a tamwiki in the first place. 61 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: Aaron, appreciate your time, Aaron Jones, Have we heard that before? 62 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: Or have we heard that before? For more from the 63 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks that'd be 64 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.