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Speaker 1: Now as it was telling you earlier, the government has

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Speaker 1: launched a calculator to help businesses work out their gender

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Speaker 1: pay gap now. The calculator can be found on the

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Speaker 1: Ministry for Women's website and the hope that businesses will

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Speaker 1: realize what the pay gap is and then address the

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Speaker 1: pay gap. And Nikola greg is the Minister for Women.

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Speaker 1: Hey Nikola, hello, how about you good? Did you hear

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Speaker 1: my rantet five twenty five?

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Speaker 2: I did thoughts well, Look, I mean I took them

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Speaker 2: sunity leaves. It's up the women individually. Look, I speak

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Speaker 2: to lots and lots of women led to businesses. I

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Speaker 2: was with a bunch of lawyers recently. Some of them

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Speaker 2: told me they went back to work after six weeks.

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Speaker 2: So look, I don't respectfully here that I don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: agree with you. I think it's up to the individual

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Speaker 2: and all power to of course and equally to both

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Speaker 2: want to be munth.

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Speaker 1: I not totally. Everybody can decide. But you don't get

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Speaker 1: everything right. So if you want to take a year's

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Speaker 1: and you'll leave every time you have a baby, you

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Speaker 1: want to be the one that stays home with the baby.

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Speaker 1: You want to be the primary parent don't don't bitch

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Speaker 1: and moan when you're not getting paid the same as

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Speaker 1: your your male peers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And you know what, you touched on a

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Speaker 2: really salient point here, because we've got a pay gap

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Speaker 2: at about eight point two percent. We've driven that down

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Speaker 2: quite hard in recent years, and now it's got really sticky,

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Speaker 2: and that's because of what we call these unconscious biases,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of that is driven by women who

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Speaker 2: choose to exit the workforce to stay home and be months.

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Speaker 2: And again that's awesome and I love that they want

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Speaker 2: to do that, but this is why we have to

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Speaker 2: start encouraging businesses to really open up, get really brave,

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Speaker 2: measure their pay gap and then if they want to

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Speaker 2: take action to start to reduce it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now, what I'm worried about this thing doing right

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Speaker 1: is that there will be unintended consequences. So there will

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Speaker 1: be a lot of businesses where, for example, they have

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Speaker 1: a lot perhaps they employ majority women, like thirty percent

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Speaker 1: blokes seventy percent women, and maybe at the top levels

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Speaker 1: of the business, and I'm thinking about someone in particularly

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Speaker 1: at the top levels of the business is pretty even

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Speaker 1: fifty to fifty. But then they've got the gigantic workforce

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Speaker 1: underneath their women, right, so they're cheap women working there.

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Speaker 1: What they will do, Nikola, is they will not pay

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Speaker 1: those women more. They will simply next time a woman leaves,

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Speaker 1: replace it with a man. Replace it with a man,

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Speaker 1: Replace it with a man, replace it with man. And

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Speaker 1: the unintended consequence is that for some women in certain

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Speaker 1: pay bands, it gets hard to get a job.

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Speaker 2: You Look, I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't

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Speaker 2: think businesses will do that. I mean, we've road tested

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Speaker 2: this thing really really widely with all sorts of businesses,

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Speaker 2: including those gender heavy ones that you're talking about, but

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Speaker 2: probably the inverse of that, like Port of Auckland, like

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Speaker 2: various contracting and constructing companies. So look, they are obviously

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Speaker 2: really keen to delve into this because we know that

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Speaker 2: it will open up a workforce to them that will

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Speaker 2: unleash a wider talent pulled to them. You know, we

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Speaker 2: know that employing more women is all around diverse thing,

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Speaker 2: canigreater innovasion and proved decision making, all that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: So I don't necessarily think this is going to drive

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Speaker 2: people away from employing women in SAD. I think they're

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Speaker 2: going to see the top of it and it's going

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Speaker 2: to un leave up in quite cool.

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Speaker 1: This particular tool. Is it completely private, like I can

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Speaker 1: go on if I wanted to type in my business

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Speaker 1: and all the details and nobody would even know that

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Speaker 1: I've done it. I don't need to display it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely, And each business can choose to do

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Speaker 2: the whole organization or to your point earlier, they can

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Speaker 2: drill down by sector, so you can can drill down

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Speaker 2: any management, mid level management and so on and so forth,

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Speaker 2: so you can equate. You can calculate out your gender

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Speaker 2: pay within each of those segments within your business.

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Speaker 1: And then what is the possible advice that can be

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Speaker 1: given to businesses to address it? Is it not simply

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Speaker 1: paid that woman more?

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Speaker 2: No, it's really really user friendly. I've run through it

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Speaker 2: a couple of times myself. It's going to be hosted

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Speaker 2: on the Ministry for Women's website and business in there,

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Speaker 2: so we're going to get it out as wide as

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Speaker 2: we can possibly go and all of so A is

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Speaker 2: the calculator, but B then that there are a whole

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Speaker 2: heap of guides that you can then download to help

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Speaker 2: you address that pay gap, and that they have been

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Speaker 2: informed by international best practice, but also I think more

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Speaker 2: importantly New Zealand business. We want to create something that

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Speaker 2: is designed by business for business to the unique New

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Speaker 2: Zealand environment. So therefore you know it's applicable to them

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Speaker 2: and their context to operate in.

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Speaker 1: Nichola, thank you very much for taking the time to

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Speaker 1: talk to us. It's Nichola, Greg the Minister for Women.

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