1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: New in sight. Meantime, though, from the SIS into our 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: terror threat, terror attack remains realistic possibility due to the 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: old favorites of geopolitical uncertainty and online radicals. Andrew Hampton, 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: of course, is the DG of the NZ SIS and 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: is with us good. 6 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 2: Morning morning mate. 7 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Are we too complacent? 8 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: I think New Zealanders are increasingly aware that we're not 9 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: immune to national security threats, But I do think we 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 2: need to be constantly vigilant because that threat environment is 11 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: changing all the time. 12 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: If you could show me everything you know, would I 13 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: freak out? 14 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: Our Threat Environment report, I think provides a pretty good 15 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: overview of the types of things that we are seeing. 16 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: You know, we're increasingly worried about young people radicalosing online. 17 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: There is foreign interference happening in New Zealand from a 18 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: range of countries, and espionage is put in at risk 19 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: our prosperity, so there is a lot to be concerned 20 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: about it. The same time, key to responding to that 21 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 2: is the public just knowing what to look out for 22 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: and to take steps to respond. 23 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: Do you rank them the three you mentioned, violent extremism, 24 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: foreign interference, espionage. Can you rank them in terms of 25 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: what we should be more worried about. 26 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: In terms of nzsas's investigative effort, we're split about fifty 27 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 2: to fifty between those violent extremist threats and foreign interference 28 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 2: and espionage, although increasingly we're also doing work up in 29 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: the Pacific, both to understand what's going on, but also 30 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: to work with our specific partners to help them be 31 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: aware of what's going on so they can take steps 32 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: to mitigate the risks. 33 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: Are they aware of what's going on? I mean, when 34 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: you sign an agreement with China, are you aware or 35 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: are you just taking the money. 36 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: We've worked really hard over the last probably only a 37 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: year or eighteen months to try and provide more intelligence 38 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: to Pacific states. You know, a lot of the material 39 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: we deal with is quite classified, so we need to 40 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: find ways to share it with them. I do think 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: in the Pacific we are seeing this geostrategic competition playing out, 42 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: and some Pacific states see that as an opportunity and 43 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: think they can balance the risk. But they don't have 44 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: all the information. So part of our job is to 45 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: help give them better information. 46 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: Have you turned anyone on that. 47 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 2: I think we've had We've had quite a bit of success, 48 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: you know, there's been if it's for example, by foreign 49 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: states to establish what's called ground based space infrastructure up 50 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: in the region. So these are things to track satellites. 51 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: There are attempts to do it in New Zealand. We 52 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: stop that. We've shared that information with our Pacific partners 53 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: and they've been able to turn it off as well. 54 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: So that's a specific example where progress is being made 55 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: but the threats aren't going away. 56 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: What's the line and how do you know between the 57 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: nasarus saying weird stuff at age twenty two on line 58 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: and the guy is actually going to do something to 59 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: me in downtown Auckland, Wellington or christ Judge. 60 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: Look, as our report states, these violent extremist narratives online 61 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: are a real concern. The vast bulk of the people 62 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: who engage with these narratives aren't going to take violent action, 63 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: but a small number do have the intent and capability, 64 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: and that's why we need the public's help to identify 65 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: who are the individuals who show those signs of radicalization, 66 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: and we describe what that looks like in our report. 67 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: We've also done a bunch of work with teachers and 68 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: other people who engage with young people so they know 69 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: what those signs are. 70 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: Do you have the tools you need? 71 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: Look, we're fortunate in that the intelligence and security agencies 72 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: have over the last ten years had increases an investment, 73 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: We've had new legislation, but the world keeps changing, so 74 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: we're constantly talking with ministers about what are the types 75 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: of capabilities we need. You know, one of the real 76 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: strengths we have is the relationships we have with our 77 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: five Eyes partners. They have technical capabilities, access to intelligence 78 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: that we use every day to protect ourselves. But the 79 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 2: public are a big part of this as well, and 80 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: that's what the report's about, helping to raise the public's 81 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: awareness about these threats so they can both tell us 82 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: when they see stuff of concern, but also know what 83 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: steps they themselves can take. 84 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: All Right, I appreciate the inside. Andrew Hampton from the 85 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: Sis this Morning. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, 86 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, 87 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.