WEBVTT - Why Trump 2.0‘s first 100 days in office are drawing global concern 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.080 Gilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:16.079 a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Donald 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.319 Trump has made it through his one hundred days back 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.000 in office and people are not thrilled with his performance. 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.000 His approval ratings at the one hundred day mark are 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.920 the lowest in seventy years, with only a forty four 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.680 percent approval for a man who won the popular vote 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.720 only seven months ago. It comes as his tenure has 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.240 so far been dominated by tariffs and trade wars, cutting 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:44.080 public services, gender mass deportations, and hitting out at his enemies. 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.560 And the Trump bump has even taken on a new meaning, 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.880 with Canada and Australia's left leaning political parties reversing polls 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.560 from the start of the year to stay in government. 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.440 But with roughly fourteen hundred days left in his presidency, 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.560 what does the future for Trump two point zero? We're 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.360 working through that today on the Front Page with University 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:15.399 of Otago professor of International Relations Robert Patman. Robert, how 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.760 would you rate Donald Trump's performance as US presidents so far? 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.600 Well, I think even from the point of view supporters, 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.920 it's been a rocky ride. It's been chaotic and shambolic, 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.800 And that's not really surprising given the fact that mister 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.119 Trump has put so much emphasis with his senior appointments 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:39.440 on loyalty rather than competence. So what we've witnessed is 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.920 a very ambitious agenda, both domestically in the United States 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.280 and internationally. But there is a suspicion that the implementation 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.760 of that agenda is in hands which are not particularly steady. 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.040 Yeah, there have just been so many fit things that 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.600 have happened in just one hundred days. Most notably has 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.240 been the cuts to the public service and the me 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:04.880 of course, so let's focus on Doge first. This desire 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.280 to save billions by cutting services seems to have riled 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.480 up the public a lot more than probably anticipated. There's 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:15.680 been multiple reports of constituents confronting leaders at public meetings, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.920 reports of infighting between Trump's cabinet and Elon Musk. Is 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.680 it a surprise that this has proved so toxic with 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:23.280 the public. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.600 There, No, not really, because partly because there's a perception 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.840 that some of the people like Elon Musk and his 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:36.840 team of youngish software engineers who are overseeing as sort 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.520 of taking a chainsaw to the public service. They're not 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:43.960 particularly competent or experienced in the running of governance. Mister 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.320 musk background is not in that area. Also, there is 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.560 mounting indignation that mister Musk seems to be cutting everything 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.400 except his own government contracts, which are extremely big with 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.919 the government. So he is a contractor of the government. 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.040 But there is a complict of interest here, and I 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.360 think that's causing some concern. But yes, over one hundred 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.920 and twenty thousand federal workers have been fired. We've seen 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:13.480 important fassets of American soft power, like us AID, which 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.680 is responsible for dispensing America's development aid around that that's 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.080 been disestablished. With the loss of ten thousand jobs. That's 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.320 going to have a long term effect on how the 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.240 world perceives America to some degree. First of all, there 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:30.240 is a sense that the expectation of DOGE it's been 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.359 working for three months. They claim they initially claimed they'd 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:38.320 saved two trillion. They then downlaid that claim to one trillion, 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.560 and now it's down to one hundred and fifty billion. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.960 So I think they found all the waste and fraud 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.600 that they claim. There has been very little evidence produced 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.600 to back up claims that they have discovered such waste 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.560 and fraud, and it's not very impressive making claims and 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:57.360 not be aund to back them up. So I think 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:01.200 that's contributed to a sense of uneasy. You know, people 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.160 are losing their jobs and that is a concern. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.160 The economy has also been a big issue. Trump was 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.320 voted in with a promise to lower the price of groceries. 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:15.000 Instead is actually making everything more expensive while also tanking 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.440 the economy. So why did he even choose to do 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:18.560 this in the first place. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.719 Well, that's a very good question. Mister Trump and his 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.280 supporters seem to have got it in their heads that 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.400 the American economy was in an appalling state, when in 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:31.880 fact it was the best economy in the world by 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.880 every objective or impartial economic measure. So he inherited a 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.560 very strong economy, but he now seems to be in 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.039 the process of undermining that. And of course some economies 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:47.640 are warning that America could be entering a recession, its 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:49.719 economy could be going to recession. You only have to 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.280 look at the stock market to see its cumulative hemorrhaging 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.200 to realize the scale of how America's gone in the 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.800 wrong direction economically, and that is you know, more than 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.599 eleven trillion has been lost from the US stock market 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.480 since mister Trump came to power. In general, yes, it's 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.640 rallying a bit now, but it's lost the you know, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.640 it's lost a lot of ground, and the overall trend 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.200 has been downwards. So it's having good and bad days, 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:17.760 but the bad days tend to out and number the 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:18.200 good ones. 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.560 When does it become the Trump economy? 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.760 It partially is right now, and I really mean this. 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.200 I think the good parts of the Trump economy and 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.080 the bad parts of the Baden economy because he's done 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.560 a terrible job. He did a terrible job on everything. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.080 But sir, you acknowledge when you announced your tariffs, for example, 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.719 the stock market dropped, it's been volatile. It has since 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.599 gone up. Do you take responsibility that? 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:45.440 Yeah? 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:46.799 Do you take responsibility? 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.919 Ultimately? I take responsibility for everything. But I've only just 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:57.159 been here for a little more than three months. Yeah. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.839 Well, a lot of people who did support Trump seem 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:03.200 to have turned on him over his handling of the economy. 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.960 I've seen lots of commentary online from people saying that 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.479 they didn't vote for this from Trump. They voted for 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.480 him because they wanted to shake up the establishment. They 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.920 wanted inflation to come down, they wanted immigration under control. 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.440 But has he betrayed voters or is this kind of 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:21.560 what we have come to expect from him. 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.279 No, I think mister Trump, there were some things which 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.440 he have you pulled out of a hat, so to speak. 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:33.680 He's threat to annex Canada and also Greenland, as well 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.800 as takeover Gaza. As far as I can see, there 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.880 was nothing in his campaign that suggested he might do that, 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.640 although he made threatening noises immediately after he was elected 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.920 with respect to Canada. But on the other matters, Doge 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:52.159 was certainly something that Musk and mister Trump had agreed 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.480 even before the election. Musk was a key player for 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.520 mister Trump's election victory. He pumped in about two hundred 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.480 and seventy seven million dollars into supporting Trump, and of 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.320 course was rewarded with a very good job. But this 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.600 is very much a government by billionaires. I mean, thirteen 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:13.040 heads of government agencies are now billionaires, and that's prompted 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.440 people on the left of the political spectrum, like Bernie 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.680 Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez known as AOC. They've been 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:26.600 launching a nationwide anti oligarchy campaign. With respect to the 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.280 question you asked, I think mister Trump indicated he was 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.400 always going for tariffs, so that was no surprise. He 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.560 often said, it's a beautiful thing, tariffs. There's two things 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.120 that have troubled mister Trump for a long time. The 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.880 first of all the perception that Americans being ripped off. 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.600 All I can say, if America's being ripped off, the 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.760 people respond deemed to be responsible for that. The rest 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.920 of the world have done a remarkably competent job, because America, 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.880 by the time mister Trump came to power, remained head 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.040 and shoulders the most powerful country in the world. And 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.720 the second thing was tariff's He believed that tariffs could 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.320 correct the situation, and I think many of his voters 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:07.680 did not seem to realize that tariffs are actually internal 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.920 tax on American consumers. And there was a very interesting 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:15.720 development where Amazon attempted to point out to their consumers 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.680 the actual price of the tariffs that the American government 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:24.920 has imposed on certain products coming from overseas, and that 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.560 met from a very angry response from mister Trump and 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:32.080 his press spokesperson Caroline leave It And as a result 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:38.160 of that pressure, Amazon removed the explanation to their consumers 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:42.480 in detailing the actual costs of the tariffs being imposed. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.000 So it is a sensitive issue. But yeah, I mean, 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.040 I think many people took at face value his claimed 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.439 that he could reduce costs, while in the next breath 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.800 he was saying, I'll be adding some tariffs as well. 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.480 They probably didn't make the connection between the imposition of 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:58.960 tariffs and the increase in their cost of doing. 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.240 It's funny that you bring up Amazon, actually, because I 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.920 was going to as well. I know that there's some 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.959 talk about Elon Musk not being particularly happy with how 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:09.920 things are going. And now when I saw Amazon in 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.400 the headlines, I thought, oh, Jeff Bezos was in what 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.920 the front row of the inauguration as well. Do you 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.679 think that he will continue to have the support from 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.400 the likes of Musk and Jeff Bezos or will that 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:23.480 linger for the next few years. 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.760 It's difficult to predict. But what we do know in 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:33.280 the first three months, those high tech bros, people like Bezos, Musk, 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:38.760 Suckerberg from Facebook all strong supporters of Trump going for 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.800 the White House. They have been all of them have 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.599 been quite hit quite hard by the losses on the 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.160 stock exchange. It's been high tech companies that have borne 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.200 the brunt of that. Give you an example, when mister 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:55.079 Trump introduced his tariffs on the second of April. Within 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.679 the next two days, there were six trillion in losses 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.680 in the stock exchange for trially of those affected high 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:06.040 tech digital companies. That may be part of the reason 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.160 why Musk is unhappy. I suspect also he's unhappy about 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.720 what's happening to Tesla, one of the five companies under 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.840 his control, which has gone through. I mean it's external sales, 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.600 particularly in Europe, have collapsed, and people have been very 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.960 angry about what Musk has been saying about many countries, 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.160 including Germany. People do have real clout and they can 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.280 exercise it by simply stopping buying products, which they have 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.240 done in some cases. But yes, it's going to be 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.160 interesting to see how this sort of constellation of high 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:41.280 tech leaders in very big businesses whether they are going 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.120 to stick with mister Trump through thick and thin. I 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.920 suspect some may peel off, but others may believe on balance, 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.640 the advantage is to be in a position where they 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.920 can influence the White House or at least have a 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.640 channel of communication. But yes, there's a lot of unknowns 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.800 at this stage, Chelsea. We're only three months in the administration, 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.080 or one hundred days or so, and so you know, 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:15.360 a lot could happen in the next three months. 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.120 Just after the one hundred day mark, there was the 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:24.480 first administration official shakeup, with Mike Waltz losing his post 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.480 as National Secretary Advisor in the wake of that signal 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.800 chat leak and other scandals. Are you surprised it took 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.080 so long after that scandal broke for a head to 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:34.800 roll over this. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:35.600 Yeah. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:39.800 I think the circumstances relating to his remove. Obviously the 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:44.000 signal gate episode did not help, but he is perhaps 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:48.920 one of the more combatant and experienced people working in 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:53.199 the national security field. Mister Trump, as one insiders said, 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:58.000 likes his officials to act as staff rather than principles. 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.520 There is a bit of a sus that mister Waltz, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.280 who came to the job with some i say solid 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.959 credentials in the national security area, had quite distinct views. 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.760 He was a hard liner on Russia, so he disagreed 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:16.240 with the administration's softly, softly approached towards Vladimir Putin, and 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.880 also he had views on other foreign policy questions. So 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:25.400 he apparently was the subject of considerable pushback from other 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.880 members of the administration, and that was why he was 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:33.800 effectively demoted and given the job of US Ambassador to 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.800 the UN, which is a high profile job, but clearly 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.600 that was not what he was appointed for. So yes, 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.360 he's one of the first casualties. I think the first 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.760 of many. I think some people, I mean a lot 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.040 of people are speculating how long can the sectory of 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.840 defense last? Pete Hegseth. He was also involved in a 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:59.600 second signal chat, which again contravene government regulations about classified communication. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.800 I don't think Waltz will be the end of it. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.360 Mister Trump has always had a bit of an uncomfortable 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.239 relationship with his national security advisors. In his first administration, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.440 he got through about three or four, and there is 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.080 a you know, mister Trump, I think is uncomfortable with 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.840 independent people around him who challenge him. Of course, you 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.200 need that for good decision making, and that's why one 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:29.520 is feeling slightly uneasy that if mister Trump continues to 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.840 surround himself with cronies or echoes, then we're going to 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.439 have some disastrous decisions made. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.600 And remember this, this is Baiden's word. This was a 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.720 war that was never going to happen if our president. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.120 This is a horrible, horrible war. And I get to 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.839 see shots of soldiers through you know satellite that are 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:55.000 so just so terrible. Five thousand soldiers a week on 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.640 average are dying. They're not American soldiers. But I want 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.680 to solve the problem Russian soldiers and the Ukrainian soldiers. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.160 And if I can save five thousand souls, I just 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:08.160 love doing it. 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.840 How long do you give both countries before you're going 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:12.640 to walk away? 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.319 Well, there'll be a time when I will say, Okay, 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:17.640 keep going, keep being stupid. 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:23.480 Well, of course, the other big thing with the US 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.400 at the moment is how it is handling international relations. Hey, notably, 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.160 there's been a lot of back and forth on Ukraine 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.480 and Russia. You know, one minute he's berating Voladimir Zelensky 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.840 in the Oval Office, the next is criticizing Putin for 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.160 holding up peace talks. I mean, how destabilizing is this 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.840 kind of flip flopping and lack of clarity. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.840 It is destabilizing, but it's actually showing the administration to 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.240 be very weak, and that is the danger for not 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.960 just the United States, but for countries like New Zealand. 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.280 The Ukraine conflict, the outcome of that conflict is crucial. 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.640 It has big implications for the Indo Pacific. Two of 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:05.800 the biggest backers of Russia's invasion of Ukraine are China 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.240 and India. And quite frankly, here we have the most 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.280 powerful country in the world led by the Trump. Mister Trump, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.640 who sees himself as a strong leader. And what does 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.200 he do. He coses up to the aggressor that has 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.720 he legally invaded a liberal democracy and sides with the 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:25.960 aggressor against the victim of aggression. Through Chinese non sentimental eyes. 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.760 That looks like weakness. Yes, he has added, belatedly some 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:34.120 criticisms of mister Putin, but the peace settlement deal that 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:38.240 he's pushing is basically solving all of mister Putin's problems, 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.760 and it's based almost it could have been written in 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.800 the Kremlin. There does seem to be some reconsideration going 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.760 on now by mister Trump. He has signed a minerals 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:51.800 deal with Selensky's government, and that has, as you indicated, 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:57.080 quite rightly, been some disgruntlement picked up on true social 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.760 mister Trump's media channel of Putin. But I think it's 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.800 been a very bad start, and he's also split relations 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:09.160 between Europe and the United States. And really you could 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.000 say this about his tariffs as well. But I think 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.800 his foreign policy has at times been incoherent. He you know, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.280 the official rationale for coosing up to mister Putin's dictatorship 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.320 is that the United States, what's the form a geopolitical 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:26.000 partnership with Putin or something like that. According to mister Rubio, 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.040 the sector of state in order to peel Russia off 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.440 from China. I think that's unrealistic. But putting that to 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.720 one side, China will see mister Trump's behavior as possibly 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.360 well almost certainly as weakness, and that will encourage them 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.840 to become more assertive in our neck of the woods, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.200 in the Indo Pacific and possibly in the Pacific Island 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.960 Nations region. And certainly it could be expected to up 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:53.680 the pressure on countries like Taiwan. So that is worrying 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.680 ineffectively what mister Trump is not, you know, you're quite 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.680 right use the term destabilizing. He's upended eighty years of 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.199 American foreign policy, he's effectively he's dismantling what's called the 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.440 rules based international order, which most liberal democracies, including our own, 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.679 depend on rules are there for the week, not for 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.639 the strong. But mister Trump's vision of international relations is 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.199 very different from New Zealand's. He sees the world in 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.240 top down terms, a world that's run by great powers, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.840 with America the greatest power of all, sitting at the 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.600 top table and negotiating deals with the likes of Putin 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.920 and China. As for the middle powers and the small powers, well, 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.320 they will have to go and negotiate bilateral deals with 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.399 the United States and basically get what they're accept what 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.879 they're offered. So this is a radical break from the past. 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.120 It's the most biggest change in the American foreign policy 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:51.600 since nineteen forty six forty seven. And I think New 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.800 Zealand will have to speak out at some point because 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.320 what America is doing in its foreign policy is actually 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:03.040 directly undermining our national interests. New Zealand, like many small 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:08.040 and middle powers, needs rules. It needs institutions because they provide, 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.560 if you like, a level playing field for small countries 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.760 to operate in. And mister Trump seems to be determined 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:20.359 to dispense with that, and you know, it does have 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.399 real consequences for US. We trade with one hundred countries 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.760 around the world, and I think there's now pressure on 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.920 our government and other governments to bypass the United States 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:36.480 and to protect their interest by upholding the free trade system, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:41.639 the rules based trade system, which many countries believe in, 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.520 including China as well as the EU as well as 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.800 many other countries. So, you know, I think we are 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:51.560 witnessing not just destabilization, but perhaps a sort of fork 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:56.159 in the road moment where America is parting company with 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.399 many of its traditional allies and we're seeing an international 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:00.600 realignment as a result. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:02.119 Thanks for joining us, Robert. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:02.520 Thank you. 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.919 That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.760 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.840 at enzdherld dot co dot MZ. The Front Page is 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.600 produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:26.440 our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.040 Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.760 tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.