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Speaker 1: Right, New Zealand is one step closer to a wallet

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Speaker 1: free future. Digital Services Minister Judith Collins says digital driver's

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Speaker 1: licenses could be rolling out by the end of the year.

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Speaker 1: It means you won't need to carry your wallet to

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Speaker 1: the bar or when you're driving. The idea is to

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Speaker 1: make your life easier, but it also raises safety questions.

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Speaker 1: Andy Higgs, digital Identity New Zealand executive director, joins me.

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Speaker 2: Now, good morning Andy, Oh, good morning Francessia.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so do these changes sound positive to you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they are that we're wise to be skeptical.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what shall we be skeptical about?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean if you look at what's happened around

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Speaker 2: the world with digital identity and places that are not

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Speaker 2: like us, like Estonia or China or yeah, other countries,

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Speaker 2: they you become a number, right. And you know that

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Speaker 2: someone was telling me about that trip to the Middle

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Speaker 2: East the other day and they arrive and they got

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Speaker 2: sick and went to the hospital and the hospital already

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Speaker 2: knew everything about them. So you don't want to go

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Speaker 2: down that track. And we're not. But I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of people mistakenly think we are, which is which

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Speaker 2: is fine. But we've got a big job to do

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Speaker 2: on the education front, so we're doing a bit differently

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Speaker 2: down here.

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Speaker 1: So Andy, maybe you could can help us understand how

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Speaker 1: this tech is going to work. Is it like Apple

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Speaker 1: pay or will there be a two factor authentic I

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Speaker 1: can never say this word.

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Speaker 2: Two factor authentication.

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Speaker 1: Authentication, thank you, authentication? No, I can never say it. Actually,

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Speaker 1: it's just one of those words.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, So there is security built into the system.

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Speaker 2: But really the first thing to understand is it's not

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Speaker 2: a two sided marketplace. You know, it's not Apple sucking

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Speaker 2: up all our data and controlling our lives. It's actually well,

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Speaker 2: there's actually four parts to the to the infrastructure, so

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Speaker 2: it takes a bit of explaining, but I'm good to

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Speaker 2: go if you if you met me. Basically, there's an

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Speaker 2: issuer of of a credential. We call it a credential,

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Speaker 2: which is a global standard and there's the three global

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Speaker 2: standards that are in popular use, and it allows you

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Speaker 2: to issue the physical identity as what's effectively an encrypted

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Speaker 2: piece of data or a token digital token. Then you've

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Speaker 2: got the the holder, which is which is us, you know,

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Speaker 2: the holder of the token, which in the in the

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Speaker 2: case of the digital identity. It's it's it's held on

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Speaker 2: your device, so your phone. You mentioned the smartphone in

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Speaker 2: in what we what they call a wallet, but it's

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Speaker 2: not really a wallet. It's more of a kind of

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Speaker 2: view of the encrypted data. And then you've got the

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Speaker 2: that's the second past part. And then the third part

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Speaker 2: is the verification, which is the relying party, which which

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Speaker 2: could be the bar, it could be the police officer

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Speaker 2: that's just pulled you over. Yeah, they're the relying party.

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Speaker 2: And there's been a whole movement around the world because

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Speaker 2: it's actually decentralized this method. So there's a whole movement

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Speaker 2: around the world talking about no phoning homes. So what

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Speaker 2: you don't want is the issuer seeing every time you've

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Speaker 2: used your your credential. So when the relying party checks

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Speaker 2: your digital credential, that you know the issuer of it

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Speaker 2: in this case is it TA or the government won't

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Speaker 2: know that you've presented to the government.

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Speaker 1: The government can't be looking at what you're doing with

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Speaker 1: it and storing of data.

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Speaker 2: There's no storing of data. And it's basically what's called

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Speaker 2: we've we've we've implemented this new law called its identities

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Speaker 2: versus trust framework. It's a voluntary regime, but that that

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Speaker 2: points to a source of trust, a source of trust

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Speaker 2: outside that that triangle of our actors. So it could

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Speaker 2: be a government source of trust, or it could be

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Speaker 2: a non government source of trust. And that's really the

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Speaker 2: big opportunity for New Zealand to preserve greater privacy and

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Speaker 2: control for every day in New Zealanders.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it sounds like they've thought about this. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for talking us through that, Andy, appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: For more from earlier edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live

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Speaker 2: to News Talks it be from five am weekdays, or

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