1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: The HARDLD tonight, Jordan Williams Taxpayers Union, Good evening, and 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Ryan Stuart Nash, a former Labor Cabinet minister. Good evening 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: to you. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 2: Ryan. How are you Jordan? 5 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Good to see j Were you following that? 6 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 3: Stuart? 7 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Was that clear? I was, what exactly you can and 8 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: can't say? UNI? 9 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 4: Now, well, I think you ave for lunch, mate, You 10 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 4: don't need dinner anymore because you're full. I mean, Penny 11 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 4: is example if a minister isn't quite over her portfolio. 12 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: But having said that, Mate, I tend to agree. 13 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 4: You know, you've got to allow these academic experts the 14 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 4: right to say anything and everything, because universities are supposed 15 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 4: to be the critic and the conscience of our society. 16 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 4: And if you stifle academics from saying whatever they believe, 17 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 4: no matter how controversial, then I don't think that's that's 18 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 4: particularly sound. 19 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, Jordan. You obviously will have that opinion. 20 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 21 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 3: I mean, this is a big win for the Free 22 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 3: Speech Union, and I mean Penny hardly did a very 23 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,959 Speaker 3: good job of selling the policy to achieve the difference 24 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 3: is that the universe is like to say, you know, oh, 25 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 3: but academic freedom, we should be able to take whatever 26 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 3: position we like, and they ignore the fact no academic 27 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 3: freedom is a privilege for the academics. The issue is 28 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 3: is that the universities are taking a sort of groupthink approach. 29 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 3: For example, you know Massy taking you know we are 30 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: to treaty lead. If you do not agree with us 31 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: on what it means, then you know you're out. And 32 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: the thing is is the independent sort of surveys of 33 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 3: academics shows there's a problem and it's you know that 34 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 3: it's a surprising number of academics that say I'm not 35 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 3: free to speak my mind. That is deeply concerning and 36 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 3: that is what this is to address. 37 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, the biggest concern from today is obviously the 38 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: state of the GDP, which is absolutely worse than any 39 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: economist was predicting last week. And we've downgraded quarter two 40 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: as well. I want your reactions to that next fourteen 41 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: to six on news talks. There'd be Jordan Williams, Taxpayers Union, 42 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: Stuart Nash, Form and Labor Cabinet Minister on the huddle tonight. 43 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: So we've had the GDP number, it's confirmed for quarter 44 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: three we were down a pis sent for quarter two. 45 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: They've revised from down point two to down one point one, 46 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: which means we're in the deepest recession outside of lockdowns 47 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: since nineteen ninety one. Stuart, we can blame you and 48 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: adri and all for that. 49 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,399 Speaker 2: I don't think you can do that at all. 50 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 4: Right, you know, the junior consensus amongst my business friends 51 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 4: is actually Nicola was out of her depth. You know, 52 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 4: you had a finance minister come and the first thing 53 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 4: she did is borrow fourteen billion dollars and give everyone 54 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 4: a tax cut. That every one of my networks, from 55 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 4: the far right a Jordan to the far left said 56 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 4: now is not the time. Now's the time to be 57 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 4: spending money on you know, cops, nurses, schools, hospitals, et cetera. 58 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 4: You can't borrow fourteen billion for tax cuts and expect 59 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 4: the economy to be in good shape. The other thing 60 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 4: I would say is, you know, if Nikola had come 61 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 4: out and said, look, this is my vision for New Zealand, 62 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 4: this is where I see us being in twenty thirty 63 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 4: and this is how we're going to get there. But 64 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 4: in order to get there, this is what I need 65 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 4: to do, then Keywis might go, Okay, can't you where 66 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 4: she's where she's going, where she's heading. 67 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: And I buy into this vision. 68 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: But do you know, but she was handed I mean, 69 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: the death alone as a proportion of GDP had doubled 70 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: since pre COVID. I mean, do you not accept that 71 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: he was given some pretty shoddy books. 72 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 4: I look, COVID changed the nature of the box of that. 73 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 4: There's no doubt. 74 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 3: And she's locked. She's locked that in. I mean, she's 75 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: locked in that post COVID spending. That's the real issue. 76 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 3: And you can it's a great thing. 77 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: She's she's spending more. 78 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 4: And then there's it's actually borrowed fourteen billion for text cuts. 79 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: As a percentage of the economy that the tax is 80 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 3: still going up. You know, we're not. This is not 81 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 3: a tax assue. Come on, I mean, it's it's a. 82 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 4: Great but what she could have done, what she could 83 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 4: have done is what what you know, Michael Cullen did, 84 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 4: which most financementss do when they come from a new 85 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 4: government and say, oh my. 86 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: God, I've just opened the box. It's a lot worse 87 00:03:58,960 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: than I thought. 88 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 4: Level We're still committed to text cuts, but you know 89 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 4: what I mean, but we need to get the economy 90 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 4: in shape. 91 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: We're still committed to text cuts, but we're delaying. 92 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: It's not about Texas. This is an overspending. 93 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: Jordan. 94 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: You're right in saying that she is continuing basically the 95 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: middle of the road. You know, I'm going to get 96 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: re elected as a centrist government next election because she's 97 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: not cutting as hard and fast as she could. But 98 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: she argue cut, I. 99 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: Mean it is. It's the only cut is that she's 100 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 3: not growing it as fast. Oh yeah, that is not 101 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 3: a cut. And even on I know that labor love 102 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 3: the sort of you know this, you know it's a 103 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 3: tax cut for landlords, which was just returning interest deductibility, 104 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 3: just just absolutely bond as the way that the rest 105 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 3: of the whole world does it. You know, let's step 106 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 3: back as proportioning the economy, the tax take is still 107 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 3: going up. And Nikola Willis is relying this was on 108 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: the budget figures when we were going to get back 109 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 3: into surplus before twenty thirty. We're on you're getting back 110 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: in the surplus, of course, because they're you know, this 111 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 3: funny accounting trick removing the a SEC deficit was to 112 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 3: use the very tools that Grant Robinson used a LAH 113 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: fiscal drag taxes going up on working his nibooks, which. 114 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: Is exactly why people wanted the tax cunt, because the 115 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 1: bracket creep thing. 116 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: Was had. 117 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 3: Scratched the surface, which is the point set. 118 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: Your argument is, actually you shouldn't have tax cunts. You 119 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: should have spent that money on public services. I mean, 120 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: what will we getting them from those public services? That's 121 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: the problem people have. 122 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 4: Well, we know at the moment, you know, Mark Mitchell 123 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 4: is trying hard to get five hundred more cops. 124 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 2: Completely agree with that. 125 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 4: Eric Stanford is spending more money on more teachers, absolutely 126 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,119 Speaker 4: buy into that. Shane Retti is struggling at the moment 127 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 4: because the massive deficits in the health system that all 128 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 4: three of those needed overhauling, and all three minutesters are 129 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 4: working hard to do that, but they just haven't got 130 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 4: the money to implement the level of services. 131 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 3: That kiwis expected. 132 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 4: But the thing I would say, back to what I 133 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 4: would say is I just do not understand what the 134 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 4: vision of this government is for our economy, and I 135 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 4: just think Nicholas out of a dead and that is 136 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 4: the general consensus of the vast majority of my business friends. 137 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 2: We've got to finance it. Doesn't quite get it. 138 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: My donors are coming to the same conclusion. 139 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: You know. 140 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: I think that the. 141 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: Talking around town, it's quite concerning and that what the 142 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 3: big fearful national should be as if they burn through 143 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 3: that credibility of we're far better on the economy. 144 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, but what do you wanted to do? If she 145 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: went and cut like you, like you would have her cut, Jordan, 146 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: then she'd be out on our ear six and you've 147 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: got and the media would be having a field day 148 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: if you spind like Stuart wants to spend. I mean, 149 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: she's going in the middle of the road. This is 150 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: what a good politician should be doing. 151 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 3: You're right, the media would have a field date. They're 152 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 3: having a field like labors in their approxy. I mean, 153 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 3: I can never tell what the student's post politics orhere 154 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: he's coming back because he's sticking to those labor talking points. 155 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: She's going to be had for for austerity anyway, she 156 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 3: should at least through the job so we get out 157 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 3: the other side, you can, we're going to move on. 158 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 3: Compare it to Ruth. You know, two years before the 159 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 3: election and ninety one the last time the economy was 160 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: this this bad. By the end of that term growth 161 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 3: and surplus and inflation under two percent when Jim Bolja 162 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 3: sacked there or on this part, there's no way Nickler 163 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 3: gets there. 164 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: And let's talk about inviting friends over it well, not 165 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: inviting friends over at Christmas time? So do you have this, 166 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: Stuart where people friends will come over to your house? 167 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: Actually I saw in the newspaper you've told everyone where 168 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: you live. 169 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 3: A smart thing to do. 170 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: Come around. 171 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 3: Well, look right, I'll see you next week's jack. 172 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you're more than welcome. The fridge is full 173 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 4: of beer. We love I love people. 174 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 3: I call them to Amazon instead usually. 175 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: Come down to mind. The thing is is that you know, 176 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: it's always nice to have at least. 177 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 4: A half an hour call so you can put on 178 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 4: a top and some decent shorts. But you know, Christmas 179 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 4: is about relaxing, having a couple of beers with mates 180 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 4: and just enjoying themselves so you can. 181 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 3: Make it all summer the year at home, so. 182 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: What well, who doesn't. 183 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 4: But but there's always a cop in the French view Jordan, Right, 184 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 4: there's two for you, right coming. 185 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 3: The great thing where we are for summer is it's 186 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 3: boat excess only, so you can really you know, it's 187 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 3: the best. It's the best of both because you know 188 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 3: they're great. And I will come and pick you up. 189 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 3: And ah, yeah there's something wrong with the boat. 190 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: Not today, you hide away. I welcome him. Come. Anyone 191 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: who's listening, all right, thanks guys, have. 192 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 3: A good one. 193 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: Mate. 194 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: Jordan Williams taxpayers and the Stuart Nash, former Labor Cabinet 195 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: minister whose door apparently always open. Seven to six. 196 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 197 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 3: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 198 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio.