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Speaker 1: Hello, I am Paula Venas and welcome to my New

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Speaker 1: Zealand Hero podcast, Ask Me Anything and one thing eye

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Speaker 1: blurt in life is it's never too late to learn

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Speaker 1: something new. So on this podcast, I talk to people

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Speaker 1: from all walks of life to hear about how they

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Speaker 1: got to where they are and get some advice and

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Speaker 1: guidance on some of life's biggest questions. My guest today

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Speaker 1: is a familiar face on the teally longtime LOTO presenter.

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Speaker 1: She's been on Shorty Straight, whell a Fortune see On's wedding.

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Speaker 1: Netflix is The Royal Treatment Dancing with the Stars.

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Speaker 2: Where she was up right robbed to be frank.

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Speaker 1: In the last few years, Sonya Gray has turned to

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Speaker 1: documentary to share insight into the lives of neuro divergent

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Speaker 1: children and their families. Through her documentary Kids Wired Differently

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Speaker 1: and her podcast No Such Thing as Normal. I'm God,

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Speaker 1: I'm exhausted reading this on you. She has become I'm

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Speaker 1: a huge advocate for the neurodivergent community. The podcast has

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Speaker 1: been a huge hit. Congratulations so big time on recently

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Speaker 1: being named Best History and Documentary Podcasts in the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: Radio Podcast Awards. I have got the wonderful Sonia Gray. Hello. Hello,

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Speaker 2: I'm exhausted with everything you're doing.

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Speaker 3: I love that you said dancing with the stars, because

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Speaker 3: that was god a couple of minutes and then I was.

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Speaker 2: Gone, Ah, you were robbed.

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Speaker 3: We all know that, Paul. Yeah, still hurts.

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Speaker 2: It's funny. Hey, that's the thing that's like here. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of weird.

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Speaker 1: I get asked to do some things occasionally and I go,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm past ever being voted on again.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't really get it. I didn't really understand

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Speaker 3: reality TV. I was I thought, you know, I'll just

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Speaker 3: go really hard and be a really good dancer and

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Speaker 3: have fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's okay campaigning in the background, is it?

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Speaker 2: In that kind of.

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Speaker 3: It's complicated, it's confident.

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Speaker 2: Would you do it again? Would you do would you

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Speaker 2: do reality TV? Again?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: No, No, it's a strange thing. It's a strange environment.

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Speaker 3: You're never quite sure what's going on. Yeah, does that

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Speaker 3: make sense?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: People ask me on the Treasure Island all the time

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Speaker 1: and I just go, oh, what part of you think?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 1: I want to sleep in an uncomfortable bed and really

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Speaker 1: horrible weather without Shadonah and then be second guessing the

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Speaker 1: people that I'm hanging out with.

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Speaker 3: I'm exactly the same. Yeah, that would be my worst nightmare. Cold,

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Speaker 3: no food, no shard in night Yeah. Oh and yeah,

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Speaker 3: like who's with me? Who's the alliances? It's just yes, terrifying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's not, It's not my thing at all.

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Speaker 1: I think we've warmed up because I normally do some

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Speaker 1: quick fires, but I feel like we've I feel like

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Speaker 1: I feel.

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Speaker 3: Like, well, I know, you need to get back to work.

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Speaker 2: I need to keep a real job, which is quite good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, before we get into the nitty gritty of neurodiversity,

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Speaker 1: because I'm absolutely rapped. Can I just again say congratulations

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Speaker 1: on the on the award for your podcast.

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Speaker 2: How does it feel because you put a lot into it.

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Speaker 3: It's oh my god, oh my god, so much. I

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Speaker 3: didn't actually know how much work. It would be. Lots

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Speaker 3: of all nighters. Yeah, that was lovely last week to

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Speaker 3: get that award. And I actually when they announced it,

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Speaker 3: my jaw drops, like physically jaw dropped. I was just like,

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Speaker 3: oh what what? And it's but it's such a lovely feeling. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: to get I mean that's not why you do it,

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Speaker 3: and we all go, oh, awards don't matter, but it

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Speaker 3: is lovely to get acknowledged.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to be recognized for the work that you're doing

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Speaker 1: and it's popular and you know that people are listening

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Speaker 1: and learning and so all.

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Speaker 2: That work is worth it. Right. It's not about the award,

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Speaker 2: but there is a recognition, which is a wonderful feeling. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And I think at the moment because I'm deep into

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Speaker 3: series two and it's really really hard again and it's like,

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Speaker 3: what do you include? What do you how do you

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Speaker 3: balance everything out? It's nice to have that to know

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Speaker 3: you're on the right track.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're to plug it right, so I know

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Speaker 1: such thing as normal? Yes, Yes, so they can go

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Speaker 1: back and listen to season one.

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Speaker 3: Season one, Yes, very relevant, yeap. And yes, season two

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Speaker 3: first episode is July for six.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm.

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Speaker 3: I hope I've got that right.

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Speaker 2: Sounds good.

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Speaker 1: So we are going to talk more about advice around

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Speaker 1: your adversity and all the rest of it in the

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Speaker 1: same half. But how hard was it for you to

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Speaker 1: go public? And I suppose for those other children to

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Speaker 1: go public? I mean your you know, your series. Did

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Speaker 1: you think about putting yourself out there like that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but no, I when we were in the thick

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Speaker 3: of it with my daughter and I didn't think we'd

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Speaker 3: survive it. I thought, if by chance we do survive this,

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Speaker 3: I have to do something because here I am in

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Speaker 3: my nice three three four bedroom villa and Mount Eden.

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Speaker 3: We have all these advantages other people don't have, and

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Speaker 3: we're still thinking, so how are other people doing it?

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Speaker 3: And they're not. So it was sort of it wasn't

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Speaker 3: almost wasn't a choice. It was like, you know, it

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Speaker 3: was a drive. It had to be my mission and

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Speaker 3: it still is. It's difficult because I, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: about my family, so we have to be really careful

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Speaker 3: around that. And my daughter's very open. But now that

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Speaker 3: she's fifteen, she doesn't want so you know, with the podcast,

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Speaker 3: she doesn't want to be in that. And that's totally fine.

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Speaker 3: So I check with her all the time. How you know,

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Speaker 3: how do you feel about me mentioning this or mentioning that?

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Speaker 1: Yes, so, because it's not just your story to tell, right,

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Speaker 1: it's you and it's your family.

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Speaker 3: She's not a shamed of it at all. She does.

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Speaker 3: I don't think, you know, we've tried to write through

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Speaker 3: a go your brain is incredible, because it is. And

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Speaker 3: she's surrounded by friends who are all you know, all

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Speaker 3: got their own little neurodivergencies. So yeah, I think kids

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Speaker 3: are much better at difference these days, but we're the

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Speaker 3: ones running the show and we're still stuck and oh, yep, yep,

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Speaker 3: we understand that you're dyslexic, but you still have to

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Speaker 3: follow the roles and will help you.

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Speaker 2: Be more normal. Isn't that awful?

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Speaker 1: Even saying it out loud just seems so harsh. How

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Speaker 1: is she now?

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Speaker 4: Because so she's what, she's touching all the wood ula,

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Speaker 4: she's great, and I do I've got to say caveat there.

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Speaker 3: Our normal is very different to other people's normal. So

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Speaker 3: there's a lot that we don't do and good for

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Speaker 3: us is probably just normal for other people. So her

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Speaker 3: I was just talking to her this morning actually, and

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Speaker 3: I said, nis you, your attendance road a school was

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Speaker 3: ninety one percent and she was like listen, mom, And

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Speaker 3: I said that, like that delights me because this is

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Speaker 3: a kid that she's never been anywhere close to that.

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Speaker 3: Like last year barely at school was hospitalized for a

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Speaker 3: week with very severe OCD. Just so many things over

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Speaker 3: the years have meant school is really challenging for her,

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Speaker 3: but she's found her place now. And I never thought

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Speaker 3: we'd get to this point.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and you went to Europe, did you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? We did this. And you know, I said to her,

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Speaker 3: I'm so happy you're coming with me. And I said,

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Speaker 3: you know what, we're going to Europe. Even if we

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Speaker 3: just sit in the hotel room, that's fine. We've gone

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Speaker 3: to Europe. But I didn't follow through on that, did I.

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Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, we're going to So we're going

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Speaker 3: to go to Abetha. We're the weddings, and then we'll

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Speaker 3: go to Nice, and we'll go to Barcelona and we'll

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Speaker 3: go to Paris and because you know, how when are

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Speaker 3: we going to get.

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Speaker 1: Back to you?

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Speaker 3: And it was too much? Yeah, it was way too much.

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Speaker 3: And so I learned from that. But yeah, I've got

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Speaker 3: to still remember that even though she's coping very well

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Speaker 3: and life is still really hard for her, she feels

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Speaker 3: the world in a really intense way. So any change

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Speaker 3: any you know, we've got a lot of bright lights

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Speaker 3: in the studio that would be quite difficult for her

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Speaker 3: to block that out, that little noise. Can you hear

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Speaker 3: that noise. Yeah, she's trying to block that out. So

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Speaker 3: your travel, there's a whole lot of new stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's you're always learning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we always will right Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of way to do this podcast. It's like,

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Speaker 1: as I say, you need to, you know, keep learning.

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Speaker 1: How boring would it be? Hey, your TV show My

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Speaker 1: Family Mystery is back in early July as well. Fascinating

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Speaker 1: by the way, So for those that haven't seen it,

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Speaker 1: give us a snapshot of what it is.

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Speaker 3: Well, actually, this is a new series. So last year

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Speaker 3: we did one called Passengers and that was slightly different.

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Speaker 3: This time with My Family Mystery, New Zealanders bring me

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Speaker 3: a townger, some sort of treasure in their family, an object,

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Speaker 3: and that's the beginning of the mystery. They have a

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Speaker 3: question for me. They want to know, you know, who

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Speaker 3: was this person or where did these medals come from?

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Speaker 3: Or you know, well it's really varied. It's been such

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Speaker 3: a great ride.

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Speaker 2: Gohould be interesting. It's an emotional for people, I imagine

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Speaker 2: mainly me.

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Speaker 3: I cried so much. I can't believe how much I cried.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've got a spy story. Like one of

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Speaker 3: the stories is was my mother a Nazi spy?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 3: You know, like it's just really yeah, I was just

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Speaker 3: blown away. I'm so excited about the series. It's going

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Speaker 3: to be amazing. I've learned so much about DNA.

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Speaker 1: When you're doing another one, give me a call because

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Speaker 1: I reckon I've got a couple of real good ease

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Speaker 1: yeah that I don't know if they're true or not.

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Speaker 2: And you know, so it.

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Speaker 1: Just would be really so a we could go right

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Speaker 1: back to like King Tafio. There's you know, the legend

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Speaker 1: of that is that he went and stole the princess

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Speaker 1: and that's my you know, that's my ancestor there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's quite because it's not wasn't unusual. Well I

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Speaker 1: know it sounds awful, but you actually kidnap?

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Speaker 3: No, yeah, you know, this is fascinating me making mental notes.

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Speaker 1: And then I've got my grandmother's story.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I never quite understood which but a great.

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Speaker 3: Question is, so, Paula, would you come onto the show?

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Speaker 3: Would you bring your object to me?

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Speaker 2: To find an object? Is what I'm thinking.

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Speaker 3: We do that, Well, we'll find one. Yeah, they're all

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Speaker 3: starting something. Yeah, it just needs to or.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I reckon.

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Speaker 1: We've got some goodies because everyone's got something.

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Speaker 3: Hey, yeah, they do some of them. In the series

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Speaker 3: of Quite Profound. There was some shocks, there's some year. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's very interesting going with someone on a journey that's

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Speaker 3: so personal and I think, you know, as the host,

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Speaker 3: my role was to carry them, but it's yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: a lot. I can't prepare them for what we'll find.

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Speaker 2: Well, EI think we need more of this kind of TV?

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Speaker 2: Are you hopeful?

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Speaker 1: Because you know we're all worried at the moment we're

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Speaker 1: not going to tell enough Kiwi stories and we're not

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Speaker 1: going to see enough of us on TV if you like,

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Speaker 1: Do you have concerns around it?

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Speaker 2: Hell?

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Speaker 3: You yeah. I mean a lot of my colleagues have

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Speaker 3: lost their jobs recently. Friends, I don't know what the

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Speaker 3: answer is. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're New zealanin ear and everything. I've got a

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Speaker 1: responsibility to keep telling our stories.

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Speaker 3: So New zealand And are amazing and thank goodness we have them.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, we just probably need to turn our tellies on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah we can moan and groan, but if we don't

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Speaker 3: turn them on and watch what's there, then you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's one.

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Speaker 2: I hear you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to take a quick break because I

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Speaker 1: am dying to get back and get into all things neurodiversity. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we are back with Sonya Great and a head of

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Speaker 1: season two of your podcasts No such Thing as Normal,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to look at advice around a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of different areas of neurodiversity. I mean, it's been

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Speaker 1: a few years now since you went public with your

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Speaker 1: own ADHD.

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Speaker 2: You know, do people still talk to you about it?

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Speaker 3: Hmmm, yeah they do. Yeah, I'm kind of really cool

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Speaker 3: with it, but I understand that a lot for a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who do have a neurodivision diagnosis like ADHD, autism, dyslexia,

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Speaker 3: it's very hard for them to be open about it.

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Speaker 3: So I sort of feel a responsibility to talk about

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Speaker 3: it in a positive way and just just you know,

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Speaker 3: grow that awareness that it's a real thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what people still struggle. It's like, well, really,

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Speaker 3: while I lose my keys, and it's like, it's not

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Speaker 3: just about losing things. I mean a lot of it is.

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Speaker 3: A lot of it is about being late and being disorganized.

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Speaker 3: But if it were just that, then I wouldn't be here.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've sort of diagnosis, well, let's.

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Speaker 1: Sleep rite in because we've just because we've you know,

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Speaker 1: Torri Farno has come out in the last few weeks,

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Speaker 1: and that good on her.

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Speaker 2: That's where I'm at. But I just couldn't get over.

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Speaker 1: You know, I made the mistake kind of switching on

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Speaker 1: the radio and there it was again.

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Speaker 2: You know, Oh, is it even real?

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Speaker 1: It's just an excuse, it's you know, and it was

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Speaker 1: so negative. And then I just went down the bad

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Speaker 1: rabbit hole of reading some of the comments and things

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Speaker 1: which I shouldn't have done.

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Speaker 3: You can't I do it the same, Yes.

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Speaker 1: But I was kidding so angry for not just even

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Speaker 1: for her, but you know, how do you criticize for

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Speaker 1: her personal journey here? Go for politics, go for decisions,

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Speaker 1: that's what we put ourselves up for.

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Speaker 2: But actually, and it's still there on you.

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Speaker 3: It is still there. It's so I guess it's because

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Speaker 3: you can't see it. You know, sometimes you can, but

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Speaker 3: you can't see it. Also, it's environmental, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: So for me with ADHD, if I'm doing something I love,

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Speaker 3: I am focused as all hell. If it's something that's

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Speaker 3: just not that interesting to me. Even if I have

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Speaker 3: to do it, I cannot. I'm just drawn away to

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Speaker 3: other things. I'm just sort of you know, that's just

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Speaker 3: a general example. So people are like, well, you can

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Speaker 3: do it sometimes, or you know, to their kids, or

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Speaker 3: you can do it in that situation. Why can't you

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Speaker 3: focus in this situation? And I think that's where we

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Speaker 3: get that kind of is it really a thing? And

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Speaker 3: are people just medicating their kids? And is Tory fun

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Speaker 3: making it an excuse for the fact that he's just

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Speaker 3: had a few issues lately. It is a real thing.

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Speaker 3: And I guess that's why I'm doing this, Matchey, because

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to find a way. And it's always hard

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Speaker 3: to change society's views. Yes, they're very you know, people

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Speaker 3: like to stick to what they believe. That this is

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Speaker 3: not just people being lazy or weird or coppying out

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Speaker 3: or not being able to follow rules. It's just it's

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Speaker 3: we're born like this. It's we're needed, you know. It's

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Speaker 3: like you need different ways of thinking to just advance

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Speaker 3: the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And and love the differences, right, And I

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Speaker 1: think you know, when I watched you know, kids white

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Speaker 1: differently and and listen to some of the podcasts, you

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Speaker 1: know it is, you know, abing honest and open about

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Speaker 1: some of the challenges, and some of the challenges are big, right,

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Speaker 1: So if there's people out there listening right now and

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Speaker 1: they and their children are, you know, you certainly high

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Speaker 1: reld some of the violence that kind of can go

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Speaker 1: with it, you know, that absolutely antisocial behavior. I did

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Speaker 1: think for you being so well recognized, I thought, gosh,

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Speaker 1: it must have been embarrassing at times, you know, particularly

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Speaker 1: in the earlier years.

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Speaker 3: I didn't. Yeah, that's so much. I never really thought that.

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Speaker 3: I just it was just embarrassing because I had this

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Speaker 3: quote unquote out of control kid that was in the

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Speaker 3: supermarket pulling things down or you know, tearing up library

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Speaker 3: books in the library or whatever, and people do not

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Speaker 3: respond well to that. You know, you can.

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Speaker 2: Control that child.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're going to need to pay for that library.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm crying because it's not just my kids torn

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Speaker 3: up a library boo, because like, what the frick is

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Speaker 3: going on? Yeah, I cannot Everything I do is not working.

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Speaker 3: And so now I wish I had known now what

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Speaker 3: I know then. And there's a couple of really key things.

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Speaker 3: One is these meltdowns that we see this anti social behavior.

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Speaker 3: It is not a choice. It's physiological response to a threat. So,

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Speaker 3: for example, my daughter, you know, the world sensory stuff

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Speaker 3: for her is intense. So if she's in a mall

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Speaker 3: and she's had a long day at school and something

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Speaker 3: goes wrong, they give her an ice cream, and it's

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Speaker 3: slightly different. If there's enough things have gone wrong, her

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Speaker 3: body just shuts down, and that can look like it

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Speaker 3: can look just like a shutdown, or it can be

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Speaker 3: you know, throwing the ice cream across the room. There.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes she doesn't even remember, yeah, or she didn't even remember.

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Speaker 3: But what the outside world sees is a mother that

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Speaker 3: can't control the kid.

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Speaker 1: So the first advice there is understand.

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Speaker 3: Understanding that even though it's really hard for you as

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Speaker 3: a parent or for the outside we all to understand.

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Speaker 3: But this is not a choice. This is a kid

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Speaker 3: that is so emotionally justsregulated. We might got we might

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Speaker 3: not get as emotionally dysregulated with the same set of circumstances,

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Speaker 3: but we're not in their brain. So that's the leap

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Speaker 3: we've got to make. What I wish that I'd known

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Speaker 3: is that my own stress and anxiety around it, which

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Speaker 3: is really hard not to have when you're like normal. Basically,

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Speaker 3: I was going, how am I going to keep my

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Speaker 3: kid out of jail?

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Speaker 2: Say that?

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Speaker 3: And yeah, and safe and and other people safe, her

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Speaker 3: sister safe, all those things. But the yeah to my

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Speaker 3: stress fed that because this is a kid that feels everything,

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Speaker 3: and I'm her mother. Even if I'm trying to smile

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Speaker 3: and look happy, she's feeling that, you know, my dysregulation because.

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Speaker 2: She's hyper sensitive, right, totally, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: She's hyper sensitive. She feels everything, but all kids do.

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Speaker 3: And the biggest change I noticed, like you know, we

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Speaker 3: went to all the psychologists, psychiatrists, ots, behavior therapists, everything

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Speaker 3: you can think of I tried. The biggest change was

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Speaker 3: when I can't learned how to stay calm no matter

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Speaker 3: what was going on. Now people will be listening to

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Speaker 3: this and going, how can you? I can't do it,

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Speaker 3: and it's a journey, it's a you know. But a

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Speaker 3: lot of her issues were around food, and that's really

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Speaker 3: stressful when your kid's not eating or only eating three

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Speaker 3: or four foods. But when it was like, okay, let's

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Speaker 3: just accept this, that's what it is at the moment,

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Speaker 3: the people might go, she's eating chocolate fingers, Pizzah pizza,

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Speaker 3: and cocoa pops. What the hell are you doing as

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Speaker 3: a mother. I've got to shut that out and go,

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Speaker 3: Let's create a dinner time that is calm. Let's not

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Speaker 3: worry about the food, what food goes in and out.

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Speaker 3: Let's just make this environment as calm as possible. She

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Speaker 3: will be irrational, She'll be like, oh, I needed it

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Speaker 3: on that plate, and I needed That's not her making

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Speaker 3: my life a misery. That's her just expressing that this

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Speaker 3: is really hard for me. So making that shift get

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Speaker 3: staying on her team was the most helpful thing. The

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Speaker 3: problem is you can do that, but then the outside world,

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Speaker 3: your community, the teachers, that all the people aren't quite

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Speaker 3: there yet. So that's yeah, that's what makes it tricky.

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Speaker 3: And I know a lot of people find that their

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Speaker 3: extended family just can't can't understand. Your grandparents find it

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Speaker 3: particularly fine, very difficult to sort of. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: like she can't be allowed to get away with that.

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Speaker 3: She needs to eat whatever everyone else is eating, and

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Speaker 3: it's just doesn't Yes, maybe, but that doesn't help. Well,

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Speaker 3: you know, what are we trying to achieve?

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Speaker 1: And it's just And there's a spectrum, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we talk about the spectrum. But for parents out there,

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Speaker 1: you know there when I you know, when I saw

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Speaker 1: and I saw THEO, you know you can see these

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Speaker 1: are the children who you know, the behaviors are quite

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Speaker 1: extreme at but there's another end, right, So there'll be

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Speaker 1: a parents out there that are just going.

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Speaker 2: Is this the naughty toes? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Or is this just? And where?

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Speaker 1: And you know, and everyone's judge right well, or the

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Speaker 1: judge you that they think you'll judge and they sort.

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Speaker 3: Of go, I know that it's such a good point.

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Speaker 3: It's something I think about a lot because in many ways,

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Speaker 3: I'm grateful that my daughter couldn't contain what was going

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Speaker 3: on and it was very obvious and so things had

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Speaker 3: to be put in place. There are for every inns

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Speaker 3: and every THEO, there are ten kids that hold it together,

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Speaker 3: that internalize their stress and I don't know, I mean

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Speaker 3: in many cases it comes out later and with mental

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Speaker 3: health issues in their late teens early twenties.

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Speaker 1: Because they haven't learned how to express, right, and that's

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Speaker 1: not learned, but haven't been able to express that's so well,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're concerned about how extreme and I'm not normal,

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Speaker 1: and so I just keep this all inside and we

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Speaker 1: can't do that, right, No, we all got to let

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Speaker 1: it all out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like, this is not working for me,

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Speaker 3: And if throwing this desk hasn't told you that, then

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Speaker 3: what else going to throw? Which is you know it's terrible,

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Speaker 3: But they are the changes in some cases that were

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Speaker 3: made for in theirs helped so many kids, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's another problem that we're facing now. Everyone's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: everyone wants a label at the moment, and everyone wants

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Speaker 3: special treatment, and it's like pretty much all the the

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Speaker 3: things that help neurodivergent kids help all kids. So your

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Speaker 3: your neurotypical kid is not going to be at a

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Speaker 3: disadvantage by some of the things that may be put

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Speaker 3: in place in the classroom for that would help my daughter. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we're all slightly on the spectrum. Well we're

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Speaker 1: all got personality differences and all that sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: So more in there. That's as you say, it's a

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Speaker 2: great thing.

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00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so for example, to get an ADHD diagnosis,

434
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm sort of making this up, but

435
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 3: maybe you need five out of the six. I'll tick

436
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: those off. If you have four out of the six,

437
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: you don't get a diagnosis, but those four things challenges

438
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 3: are still very real for you. But so it's not

439
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,239
Speaker 3: black and white. It's like not like I'm over here

440
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 3: with a diagnosis and everyone else is over there. It's yeah,

441
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: and I do worry about those people that are somewhere

442
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 3: in the middle that don't have a diagnosis to kind

443
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 3: of go, this is why I'm finding it hard. But also, yeah,

444
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 3: are struggling in so many ways. It's just such a

445
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: massive topic, poorra And I'm trying to generalize.

446
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: But then go, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And for

447
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 1: some parents out there as well, you know, they will

448
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: be thinking, you know, what's the kind of level of

449
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: help they can get.

450
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: You know, because you just talk about the struggles.

451
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: Of I mean, a, you might have got the diagnosis

452
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: and you can talk to recounselor, but then who's helping

453
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: you're at home?

454
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 3: No one is insane, it is. It was terrifying. It

455
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 3: was terrifying. There is nothing. Yeah, we got a diagnosis,

456
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 3: we paid to go private. I don't know if the

457
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: first diagnosis was even right, but anyway, you're sent out

458
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: of here.

459
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: And I thought, oh, we'll have it. There'll be a plan,

460
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: it'll be something.

461
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 3: There's nothing. You get a pamphlet and it's like, well

462
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: what do I do now? And no one Every step

463
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: of the way. You have to navigate yourself in a

464
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 3: world you know nothing about. And really the biggest support

465
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 3: and the best advice I got was from other parents.

466
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've tried this and it kind of worked.

467
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 3: There's an educational psychologist, you know. You know, also you

468
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: get from other parents that have been through it the

469
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: understanding which you need. You need to know that you're

470
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 3: not the only family in the world going through.

471
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: This, because you say, unless you've kind of been through it,

472
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: you can't understand how their brains are working and all

473
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: that sort of thing.

474
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: And I thought, yeah, you're right.

475
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: Well, you know, like I completely can empathize and I

476
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: can understand a level, but yeah, I haven't lived it,

477
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: and so you can't pretend that you have either.

478
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: No, and I know that ever hadn't been for in years.

479
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I'm a pretty understanding and open person,

480
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 3: but I still if a friend came to me and said, oh,

481
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 3: you know, my kids doing whatever whatever, there would be

482
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: that little part of me that would go oh, but

483
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: are you making sure that you you know, we do

484
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: just sort of automatically go to the parents. What are

485
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 3: the parents doing? What could they shift?

486
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: What would we do?

487
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we were in that situation, and yeah, I

488
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 3: can just say that if it was as easy as

489
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 3: the parents are the problem, you know that it's easily so.

490
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 3: But in saying that, the first thing that everyone is

491
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 3: told to do is go on a parenting course. Really

492
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 3: always the parenting courses.

493
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: I've got someone that with the ADHD and the child's

494
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: also got autism, and it's it's the autism that as

495
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: the stigma and the it's like ADHD is kind of

496
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I don't think, yeah, I get that.

497
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: You know, I questioned a.

498
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: Little of myself at times, you know, but autism they

499
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: just went, wow, the stigma and then you know.

500
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 3: Like that's like something it's sort of crossing into alien territory.

501
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 3: And I guess to those Hollywood cliches like rain Man

502
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: and you know, those other shows that we have this

503
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 3: idea of what autism is. Plus with autism, there can

504
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 3: be the social struggles and we never quite sure how

505
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 3: to be with people that communicate differently. Even I you know,

506
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 3: I'm interviewed a lot of autistic people at the moment,

507
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: and I do I am sort of like, I'm not

508
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: sure if I'm doing this quite right. We don't like

509
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 3: to be uncomfortable, and so we go, well, it's easier

510
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: if I just don't bother.

511
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 2: But you can ask them right, yeah, I mean.

512
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you won't get it right all the time.

513
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm fascinated by it. I want to know

514
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 3: what is going on in their minds. I feel like

515
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: if we asked the people that we talk about so

516
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 3: much what their experience is like, it would help to

517
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 3: understand it. But we talk about them, not to them.

518
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: So that's what the podcast is about. But yes, the

519
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 3: other complicated thing with an autism ADHD profile, which is

520
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 3: very common, is you've got a brain that's kind of

521
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 3: in conflict with itself. It wants structure, it wants routine,

522
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 3: it wants everything to be the same, but it wants

523
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 3: novelty and it's just a bit disorganized and it just

524
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: needs to go, go, go, And it's just you know,

525
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 3: when you talk to kids and adults with that profile,

526
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 3: you can see it that constant like back and forth.

527
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: And so let's so two parents out there, who's who

528
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: suspect that their child might be have ADHD or some

529
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: sort of neurodiversity, or they have recently been diagnosed as

530
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: you also always say. I mean, they can be the

531
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: brightest kids in the world, and you have got a

532
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: journey here, and it may not always be a nice,

533
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: smooth pass and easy, and there's not a nice little

534
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: written recipe for how we're going.

535
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 2: To roll this out, but there is. They're beautiful, aren't they?

536
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: And they think differently?

537
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they are. It is hard. It is so

538
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 3: hard in so many ways and unique to everybody. But

539
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 3: it's also a great privilege. I think I feel completely

540
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: changed by having in theirs and Tandy, my other daughter,

541
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 3: but I to ask about her little teats. Yeah, yes, yes,

542
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 3: she's she's a neurotypical. She's just one of those really quiet,

543
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: shy kids.

544
00:28:59,440 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

545
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but she's yeah yeah, twins and then yeah, and.

546
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: You've got to be conscious, right because in his head

547
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: high needs.

548
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's something we're now going through. Tandy missed

549
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: out on a lot and our home environment was very

550
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: volatile at times, and she was the target a lot

551
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 3: of times. So that's there's a lot around that that

552
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 3: we now have to address and you know, you do

553
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: your best at the time, but you're human, you know.

554
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: Yea.

555
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well there's only so much you can do

556
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: in a day. Yeah, you know, that's the reality as well.

557
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, was there a question. Sorry, I don't know I

558
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: answered the question.

559
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: I was just interested in that kind of family life.

560
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: And I suppose what I did want to do is

561
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: give some of the parents hope that you know, just

562
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: because you've got a diagnosis, so you've got a child

563
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: that's got some of the challenges of life.

564
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: It doesn't. It doesn't. There are gorgeous kids that you

565
00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: can get through.

566
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think for most people it's those first,

567
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: the younger years of the hardest and if you can

568
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 3: kind of get through that, their brains are always developing

569
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 3: and it well for us at least, it got easy.

570
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: For a lot it gets easier. But you're not alone.

571
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 3: That's a really important point that I try and drive home.

572
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 3: It feels very isolating. You feel like you're the only

573
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 3: one with the kid who won't go to school, or

574
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: the kid that can't wear socks and shoes part of

575
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: their uniform or whatever it is, and you're not. It's

576
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: just you know, we have the society that sort of

577
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: encourages us not to talk about that sort of stuff.

578
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: And I mean with other schools cut out for it.

579
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: I mean I was quite impressed when I was watching

580
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: In preparation for this, I went back and watched and

581
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: I just sort of thought that even THEO, you know,

582
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 1: they sort of accepted he wasn't in the stay at

583
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: school all day and actually him even going for an

584
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: hour a day was better than not going any Yeah, yeah, yeah,

585
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, but then again then again, yeah he's anymore.

586
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, he stood down, spelled, just doesn't a classroom environment

587
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: is just doesn't work for the and for lots of kids.

588
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 3: But really he just can't do it. He is so bright,

589
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 3: that kid, He is so bright, so talented, but yeah,

590
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 3: ADHD autistic brain. There's just so much going on our

591
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 3: schools cut out. I don't want to be negative, and

592
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 3: teachers are do the absolute best they can, but I

593
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: think we are at a point where we have to

594
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: just look at completely reworking the system. And I know

595
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: that's not easy, but it's just not working for so

596
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 3: many kids, so many, so many. I mean I've read

597
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: some stats at fifteen percent of kids actually thrive in

598
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 3: the current education system. Most just can get through, but

599
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 3: it doesn't you know, it's hard for them. And we've

600
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: got all this talk about, you know, the problems with

601
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 3: truancy at the moment, and it's like, why why aren't

602
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: we making it somewhere they want to go? Then they go, Yeah,

603
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: you know, like like the consequences like finding parents. I mean,

604
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: I'd have to take out a second mortgage if that

605
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 3: was in place. It is not physically, it's physically impossible

606
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 3: to get a kid over about seven to somewhere they

607
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: don't want.

608
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: To go, and yet again we're blaming the parents.

609
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 3: They're blaming the parents. Yeah, let's find the parents. I mean,

610
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 3: you know, that is so freaking triggering to me. But anyway,

611
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: I get it because it's like that seems like an

612
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: easy solution, but it's just missing the whole point.

613
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that it's not straightforward that.

614
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 3: And then we have to kind of go ask the

615
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 3: kids what is it about school that makes you not

616
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 3: want to go?

617
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're diagnosing a lot more.

618
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: Now, is that what's happening If we don't necessarily have

619
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: more nerodiversity, it's just that.

620
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: We are near.

621
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always you know, ADHD if you look way

622
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: back the right, I mean, yeah, I don't know how

623
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 3: they know this, but I've talked to lots of experts

624
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 3: and it pretty much hasn't changed. Yeah, but it hasn't

625
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 3: gone away either, because.

626
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: You know, I was at primary school in the seventies

627
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: and if you look, if I looked back at it now,

628
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: I would go, yeah, there's the group of naughty kids

629
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: as we would have called them the air.

630
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: There's the group that's this and as you.

631
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: Say, weird, yeah, been the autistic. Yeah, the so called

632
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: dumb kids. Yeah, they were the dyslexics. Yeah, I'm generalizing again,

633
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: but no, I know.

634
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: But but as you say, it was the forty five yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

635
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: fifty years ago, so you know, yeah, so it was

636
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: there then.

637
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just didn't have we had different labels. It

638
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 3: was instead of waters and it was weird.

639
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And you know, and we do all like

640
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: to look back as we were.

641
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: You and I said, we said off microphone before, you know,

642
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 1: and just have a nice rose colored of what our

643
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: childhoods were like.

644
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: And and our parents do the same thing. And it's like, actually,

645
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: were they I don't think they were.

646
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 3: I don't think they were either. I think the thing

647
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 3: was that there was a lot more you know, for

648
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 3: kids that didn't sit in they fell out of the

649
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 3: school system quite early. We just didn't sort of see them.

650
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 3: Or they could go into you know, the trades and

651
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 3: stuff like. Yeah, but a lot of them end up

652
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 3: in prison.

653
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

654
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 3: I mean our prison cells are full of neurodivigent people

655
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 3: over half.

656
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: So something has to change, right, Yeah, okay, So how

657
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: can we support.

658
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: Both the children and the parents who are neurodivision?

659
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 3: Compassion? Yeah, compassion, kindness, leaving your biases at the door,

660
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: just really really hard.

661
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

662
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: We might think we have and then we'll come through

663
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 3: the door and we'll be like, oh, well, well if

664
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: she just had was feeding them chicken instead of those

665
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: chicken nuggets, then you know, like everything, and so it's

666
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 3: just kind of leaving all that behind and saying what

667
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: can I do to help? What can I or you know,

668
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 3: what would what do you need? Yeah, replacing that instead

669
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: of the judging the how can I help this situation?

670
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, take your breath and actually think of others

671
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: and yeah, be with them. I suppose.

672
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: Sonya podcast is called ask Me Anything, And so far

673
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: I have done a lot of asking, So this is

674
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: your opportunity to ask me something if you would like to.

675
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: Okay, Paula, There's so much I could ask you. I

676
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 3: was thinking about Paninis and Bowld, but I want to

677
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 3: go deeper. You a Minister of Police for a short

678
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: time relatively, I think, And so I'm just thinking, you know,

679
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: there are ADHD dyslexic people in our prison cells at

680
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 3: crazy rates. The intersection with the justice system for neurodivergent

681
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 3: people is huge. What do police know about how to communicate,

682
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: how to approach, how to deal with people whose minds

683
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 3: are wide differently.

684
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: But Sonya, it'd be the same as what you say

685
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 1: about teachers. You know they get what one lecture you

686
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: know that they don't that's voluntary. They don't even compulsorily

687
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: have to go and the whole of their training. And

688
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: I would argue, you know, look, so I can't speak

689
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: to it because that's very operational ast to how they

690
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: train the police and what they do. But what I

691
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: would say is it's like they are going to be

692
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: dealing with people that are neurodiverse, that have got mental

693
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: health issues all the rest of it, and their ability

694
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: in training around that is very limited and I just

695
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: have to be honest. And so then it's like any profession,

696
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: if you like, you've just got a real range of personalities,

697
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: a range of expertise. Heck, they've all got many of

698
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: them have got neurodiverse children or you know, so there's

699
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: all of that in there, and you'll meet wonderful and

700
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: then you'll meet others that just kind of don't understand

701
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: or even perhaps want to, which is awful, but they

702
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: are actually representative of society as a whole. Yeah, and

703
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: there's probably not that level of that level of training

704
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: and that level of understanding. But then what we send

705
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: people to courts and judges don't understand either do they know?

706
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: And there's just that whole narrative of you know, you

707
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 3: should know the consequences to your actions, and everyone knows

708
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: right from wrong, and especially ADHD dyslexic people, and our

709
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 3: jails is so high. And I just look at my

710
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 3: daughter and how she was, and I really was like,

711
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: how do I stop the that she's on? And we

712
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: were lucky, but she could quite easily have gone in

713
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 3: the other direction.

714
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: But so on you we were even learning lessons, right,

715
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: So you know, if I think about Tana Porter, you know,

716
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: and he had he had fetal alcohol syndrome, so you know, different,

717
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: very different. But you know, he went to jail for

718
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: something he didn't do because of how we interviewed effectively.

719
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not the expert on this, but you

720
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: know what I mean, because of how we presented and

721
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: how he was unable to answer questions probably in all

722
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: the rest of it. And we learned lessons from that

723
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: as to how we treat people with differences or with neurodiversity.

724
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: And I don't know the answer to there, you know, but.

725
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: We've got a case that's you know, I've got a

726
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: person that's right in front of us and has been

727
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: through how.

728
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, have we learned anything? I think we do learn

729
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 3: and then we forget again, Yeah, because it's so much

730
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 3: easier to go, well, you've got to be held accountable

731
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 3: for your actions. I don't get no excuses. But if

732
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 3: we kind of take a step back and go, what

733
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 3: were the what was the issue surrounding this?

734
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, you know how you said

735
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: about our teachers, I'm the same with the police. You know,

736
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: I just will never put them down, and I just think,

737
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: but they are you know, overworked, and not given the

738
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: level of support that they need.

739
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: And that's the reality. And sometimes I bet it's just okay,

740
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: well I don't have to deal with that now, and.

741
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, and so we've got to be real, right, Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

742
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 3: it's just, you know, the amount of people that they're

743
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 3: encountering that have these sort of different brains that you know,

744
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 3: even sensory stuff that is hard for them.

745
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

746
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel bad for the police that they

747
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 3: don't get that training, you know, because it's very hard

748
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: to understand. Otherwise it's a very big topic.

749
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: Is I'm very very big.

750
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think, yeah, yeah, I've got so much

751
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 3: to say about this, Paula, I could this could be

752
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 3: a serious in itself. I just yeah, so I hope,

753
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 3: I've Yeah, there's just so much to say. And I

754
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: just I'm really aware that there are so many people

755
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 3: suffering and we sort of don't see them, and we

756
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 3: don't they don't feel that they can talk about it,

757
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 3: and yeah, that's kind of it's my mission, my copappa

758
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 3: is to ease the suffering.

759
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you, I mean, and I mean, thank

760
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: you for coming and thank you for talking about it,

761
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: you know, thanks for all the help that it does

762
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: give all those parents and people out there because they

763
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: genuinely need it right, you know, and they need to

764
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: know that they're not alone.

765
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: Not alone. Now we're fighting, we're fighting for you, and.

766
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: There one loves better.

767
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: They're wonderful, chaotic households and lives can actually get better

768
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: and yes, good times.

769
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

770
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 2: So season two of No Such Thing as Normal will

771
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: be out on Saturday, sixth of July.

772
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: So that's exciting, with a new episode dropping every week

773
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: so they can find it on iHeartRadio or any podcast platform.

774
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 2: And that's it for another episode of Asking Anything.

775
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: You can get in touch with me by emailing ask

776
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: Paula at ncd me dot co dot InCD Feel free

777
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: to send me three questions. Find me on Facebook, Instagram

778
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: and LinkedIn. Make sure you follow Ask Me Anything on

779
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

780
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: I'm Paula Binet Ask Me Anything. Goodbye