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Speaker 1: Digulous.

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Speaker 2: So the Order to General has flags some questionable spending

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Speaker 2: by schools. In twenty twenty three, according to a new report,

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Speaker 2: auditors found that fifty four schools had spent money in

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Speaker 2: a way that personally benefited their principles. Some examples of

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Speaker 2: this sort pilates, classes, adventure, tourism, even overseas family travel.

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Speaker 2: So the antenna is the New Zealand Principles Federation prison

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Speaker 2: and she joins me, Now, hell are they am oh

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Speaker 2: cureda plartis and overseas trips don't sound like education spend,

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Speaker 2: do they?

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Speaker 1: Well? Lock you know, That's what the audit and process

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Speaker 1: is all about, really, is just to ask those questions

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Speaker 1: about why boards of trustees are, you know, are okaying

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Speaker 1: some of these payments. So obviously the auditing process is

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Speaker 1: there to ensure that there is checks made by someone

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Speaker 1: other than the principle and they make recommendations. This is

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Speaker 1: not you. This happens every.

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Speaker 2: Year, yes, But the question is are pilates and over

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Speaker 2: trip overseas trips okay or not?

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Speaker 1: Look, I'm not going to comment on the individual schools

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Speaker 1: or whether or not boards or have you know, should

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Speaker 1: have spent it on this or that is I have

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Speaker 1: no context to the reason behind I guess the spending

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't at the board table, and that's really important.

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Speaker 1: And it's not that I'm deflecting from your question. It's

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Speaker 1: just that the boards would have talked about why and

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Speaker 1: the reason for and had a long conversation about the spend.

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Speaker 2: Are boards of trustees any good at this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, this is the thing. Our boards of trustees

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Speaker 1: are actually representatives of our community. So not all boards

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Speaker 1: will have someone on the air that has got unfinancial skills.

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Speaker 1: You know, some of the biggest schools might have representatives

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Speaker 1: for accountants, but no, many boards don't have you know,

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Speaker 1: members who have financial oversight. And so what really happens

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Speaker 1: is most schools will have a off site or an

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Speaker 1: off site accountant to double check and make sure that

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Speaker 1: the boards have all the information, flag any spending that

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Speaker 1: or flag any budgets that are going over so there

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Speaker 1: are checks and balances in there. Boards of trustees really

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Speaker 1: do need professional development in and around financial management tens.

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Speaker 2: Fortunately, Yeah, I understand, and I agree. And ten schools

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Speaker 2: that are reported to have made excessive gifts. Do schools

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Speaker 2: get carried away with gifts? Are they necessary?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. And once again, it would

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Speaker 1: be a discussion that's had at the board table of

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Speaker 1: which I haven't been part of, so I can't comment

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Speaker 1: on the reasons why that has been done. Certainly, they

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Speaker 1: will all have policies and around gifts, I mean there

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Speaker 1: are and gifts sort of cover a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: so you know, once again there's a conversation head and

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Speaker 1: they'll follow the policy that the school has put in place.

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Speaker 1: Those policies are often you know, they are in line

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Speaker 1: with the Ministry advice and guidance, and they also have

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Speaker 1: to meet those financial expectations by the auditors, so they

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Speaker 1: are double cheaped.

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Speaker 2: No, Jenny from the Principal's Federation, I thank you very much. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: one of the schools that was named in the report

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Speaker 2: was bream Bay College. In twenty twenty three, Bream Bay

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Speaker 2: College spent ten thousand dollars on a farewell event for

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Speaker 2: the school's former principal, and five thousand of that went

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Speaker 2: on buying a jacket for all the staff to wear

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Speaker 2: them photos so they look good. Julian Cosgrove is the

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Speaker 2: current principal. He joins you, now, how are Julian?

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Speaker 3: Afternoon?

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Speaker 2: The board approved the jackets. The audience, the general has

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Speaker 2: flagged it. How do you justify it?

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Speaker 3: Look, spending money on jackets is fairly common in schools.

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Speaker 3: They're important for staff, especially on duty. So the jackets

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Speaker 3: went just for that occasion. They were used and continue

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Speaker 3: to be used by staff on gt both to be

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Speaker 3: identifiable for students but also keeps them warm wintless north.

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Speaker 3: But we do so it's a nice.

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Speaker 2: So these are like puffers. These aren't dress jackets. These

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Speaker 2: are like puffers or something.

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Speaker 3: No, no, these are These are jackets that you would

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Speaker 3: expect to see staff that we are on duty in

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Speaker 3: a school.

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Speaker 2: I had to say this. So we talk in grammar

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Speaker 2: school with school back in the day, and nobody got

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Speaker 2: bought jackets anywhere.

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Speaker 3: I've been at schools where that's been practiced in the past.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes they's subsidized and sometimes they've been given.

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Speaker 2: So what do you say to the taxpayers, which includes you,

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Speaker 2: who are listening to this and they hear that the

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Speaker 2: staff are getting five thousand dollars worth of jackets so

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Speaker 2: that they look good.

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Speaker 3: Well, it wasn't just about looking good. I understand the consume,

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Speaker 3: but actually it's it's a fairly practical item for a

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Speaker 3: staff member who does duty outside. Obviously, we have a

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Speaker 3: fairly large site, so there's a lot of duty done outside,

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Speaker 3: and so do you I.

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Speaker 2: Still think it was a good decision when we were

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Speaker 2: in the middle of a cost of living crisis and

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Speaker 2: everybody's doing it hard.

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Speaker 3: Look, I wasn't part of the group that made the decision,

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Speaker 3: so I wouldn't want a question with us the right

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Speaker 3: decision at the time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, here's the thing. You might be leaving soon

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Speaker 2: or one day you know you won't bring Bay College

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Speaker 2: all the time.

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Speaker 3: Would you be happy?

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Speaker 2: Would you be happy enough as part of your farewell

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Speaker 2: event that people spend ten thousand dollars, including five thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars on jackets.

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Speaker 3: Look, from my view, it was a decision made at

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Speaker 3: the time, and it's not for me to comment on that.

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Speaker 2: But I'm asking when you leave and you found out

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Speaker 2: that somebody organizer that do and it was going to

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Speaker 2: cost ten grand, would you say, well, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Think it's a fair question, but it's actually a lot

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Speaker 3: of that funding wasn't spent on an event. So for example,

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Speaker 3: money was used in there for Kappa hockey uniforms, which

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Speaker 3: weren't necessarily for the event either. So one of the

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Speaker 3: things we've done as a school, as we have looked

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Speaker 3: at where we do now work with an account and

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Speaker 3: to make sure the way we code things is a

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Speaker 3: bit easier to follow, because that seems to be I

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Speaker 3: think part of why we made some mistakes there or

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Speaker 3: wasn't as obvious it could as it could have been.

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Speaker 2: One final question, just talking to LeAnn or Tena, she says,

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Speaker 2: some boards of trustees don't have any financial experience on them,

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Speaker 2: but others have accountants and all sorts of people at

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Speaker 2: brim Bay College, do you have a good board with

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Speaker 2: financial experience.

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Speaker 3: I've got a very good board and there is financial

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Speaker 3: experience on my board.

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Speaker 2: Yes, all right, I thank you very much for your

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Speaker 2: time and yeah, thanks man, it's a pleasure. And there

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Speaker 2: is Julian Crosgrove who is the principal of brim Bay College.

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Speaker 3: For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive listen live to

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Speaker 3: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio.