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Speaker 1: Afternoon, the Trade Minister is under renewed pressure over what

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Speaker 1: exactly is in New Zealand's free trade agreement with India.

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Speaker 1: The suggestion is that the agreement stops New Zealand from

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Speaker 1: capping the number of Indian students who come here, which

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Speaker 1: you will recall us exactly what Winston Petere has claimed

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Speaker 1: some time ago. Trade Minister Todd McLay is with us

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Speaker 1: now High.

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Speaker 2: Tod, hey, Heather, how are you well?

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Speaker 1: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: Is there a.

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Speaker 1: Clause in the free trade agreement that prevents us imposing

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Speaker 1: a cap?

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Speaker 2: So what it does is it says that in both

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Speaker 2: directions New Zealand students and these students can come studying

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Speaker 2: their countries, but as a dependent upon the immigration settings

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Speaker 2: that those countries put in place. So in effect, can

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Speaker 2: we come out and say, you know, we want Australian

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Speaker 2: students and not UK students, or we don't want Indian

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Speaker 2: students but we do want them from some other country.

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Speaker 2: The answer as far as the trade agreement is concerned

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Speaker 2: is no. But what the New Zealand government currently and

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Speaker 2: future has always done or is able to do, is

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Speaker 2: look at the immigration settings that will have an effect

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Speaker 2: upon the number of students that come from around the world.

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Speaker 2: So in this case, of course, it also has an

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Speaker 2: effect upon those that would come from India.

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Speaker 1: Okay, when we finally see the agreement, which we will

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Speaker 1: at some stage, will there be a clause in there

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Speaker 1: that says something like New Zealand will not impose any

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Speaker 1: numerical limits on Indian students.

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Speaker 2: So what it will say is both sides will not

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Speaker 2: do that. But then what did I go on?

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Speaker 1: Well, so you are saying, yes, there will be a

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Speaker 1: clause in there that does say that.

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Speaker 2: No, no, well sorry, what I'm saying is is that

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Speaker 2: that the agreement of commitment is that we will not

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Speaker 2: say that there is a maximum or a minimum. But

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Speaker 2: what it does say is that both governments are able

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Speaker 2: to that any students come has to meet the requirements

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Speaker 2: of immigration and many other things. And so as to

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Speaker 2: think about it.

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Speaker 1: Hang on, you have just confirmed the very thing that

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Speaker 1: this whole debate is about, which is that the free

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Speaker 1: trade agreements is New Zealand will not impose a maximum

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Speaker 1: number on the Indian students.

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Speaker 2: So what it is, So what I'm saying is it's

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Speaker 2: around discrimination.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I understand that, but can you just give me

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Speaker 1: a yes? Or no, So we can just sett all

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Speaker 1: this thing once and for all. Is there a clause

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Speaker 1: in there that says that New Zealand will not impose

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Speaker 1: any numerical limits on Indian students? Yes or no?

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Speaker 2: So it says that neither party would have that as

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Speaker 2: an upper limit. Correct. But if I just go on

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Speaker 2: what it does do it says that for students company

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Speaker 2: the country, they have to meet the requirements and creating,

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Speaker 2: including the immigration settings of those countries and so in

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Speaker 2: as far as New Zealand is concerned, we have never

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Speaker 2: had a limit on students from any country in the world.

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Speaker 2: But we do change immigration policies around what students need

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Speaker 2: to do to be able to come into New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: and we have retained the ability to do that, which

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Speaker 2: means that there are controls over the numbers of students

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Speaker 2: from India and other countries.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now is that wise to do that, to say

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Speaker 1: we're not going to impose a maximum cap on Indian students,

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Speaker 1: given that historically we have had some real problems with

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Speaker 1: dodgy guys schemes over in India sending students over here

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Speaker 1: who then become our problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So in effect, though it doesn't mean that somebody

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Speaker 2: from Indian needed and any other country has an automatic

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Speaker 2: right to come to New Zealand. So at the moment,

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Speaker 2: there are about twelve thousand students I understand from India here.

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Speaker 1: Now I understand Todd. We have we have rules, we

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Speaker 1: have vis rules. But those guys over there who are

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Speaker 1: running the schemes, they get around our vis rules.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: They pretend that these guys have more cash than they have,

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Speaker 1: and then the guys arrive here and then they don't

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Speaker 1: have any cash, and then they're our problem. So I

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Speaker 1: understand all of that, But do we not want the

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Speaker 1: ability to be able to say, hey, this is dodgy

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Speaker 1: as what's going on out in India we have to

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Speaker 1: put a cap.

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Speaker 2: Well well, so but again though we will have that ability,

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Speaker 2: so it's not abound a cap, it's around the setting.

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Speaker 2: So it says, right, we don't do it because we

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Speaker 2: have to.

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Speaker 1: Then we have to change the settings for every nationality.

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Speaker 1: We cannot target Indian students.

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Speaker 2: Well one of the so it's not about targeting though,

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Speaker 2: it's about targeting what would be an application that doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean right dogy So for so you know, one of

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Speaker 2: the things that is often talked about is migrant exploitation.

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Speaker 2: But that's a domestic issue. So the argument that says

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Speaker 2: we have people coming to New Zealand who are getting

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Speaker 2: visas that shouldn't have them as something that we need

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Speaker 2: to deal with with our immigration settings. So it doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean that it has to do with students. It can

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Speaker 2: be anywhere in the immigration system. What I was about

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Speaker 2: to say is about twelve thousand students from India here

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Speaker 2: at the moment. The previous governmor we have looked to

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Speaker 2: toughen up the requirements and the vetting and everything else,

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Speaker 2: which naturally has brought the numbers down. Now, this is

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Speaker 2: the same requirement for all countries, you know, because we

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Speaker 2: don't say in one country you have to do this,

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Speaker 2: but in another country that the conditions are different. So

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Speaker 2: the point that I'm making is the ability for the

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Speaker 2: New Zealand government current and future to look at our

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Speaker 2: immigration settings to make sure that those who are coming

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Speaker 2: meet them, to change those is remains under this agreement.

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Speaker 2: And if there are concerns about students coming in anywhere fraudulently,

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Speaker 2: we have to deal with that.

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Speaker 1: This has been going on for what is it like

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks now where Winston's been making allegations

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Speaker 1: that there is this thing in the FDA, Why did

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Speaker 1: you wait until day to confirmed?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry again I would argue that it is

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Speaker 2: not a cap what it is about discrimination. So what

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Speaker 2: we have also.

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Speaker 1: Wanting about clauses in there, why don't you just say

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Speaker 1: gear the clauses in there instead of letting Winston get

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Speaker 1: some mileage out of us.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I mean hither we're have being talking about

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Speaker 2: it and giving the detail and going through it at

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Speaker 2: quite some length, both in Parliament and elsewhere. The New

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Speaker 2: Zealand government remains the ability to control the number of

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Speaker 2: students to come for everyone, including India. And that is

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Speaker 2: the point I mean, I think what you know others

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Speaker 2: are saying is that hundreds of thousands of people or

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Speaker 2: tens of thousands of people extra are going to come

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Speaker 2: to New Zealand as a results of this agreement. I

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Speaker 2: just want to take it back a step, where five

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Speaker 2: million people India is one point four billion. This is

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Speaker 2: a trade agreement that actually isn't an immigration agreement. In

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Speaker 2: as far as skilled migrants are concerned, one thousand, six

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy per year can come based on the

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Speaker 2: conditions the New Zealand govern it sets and we have

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Speaker 2: the ability to change them. And ultimately, in return to

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Speaker 2: a few of these things, we get access to one

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Speaker 2: point four billion people on the same footing or better

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Speaker 2: than the UK, the European Union and I hear this

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Speaker 2: week I deal with the UK or with the US.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, listen, Thanks Tod. Always appreciate you having time

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Speaker 1: to talk to us. It's Todd McLay, Trade Minister. For

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Speaker 1: more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.

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