1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: New report this morning endo the cost of state housing 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: current seventy seven thousand kaying at Aura homes cost us 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: the taxpayer twice as much as the private sector. Basically, 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: it wants tenants to have a greater choice of landlord now. 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Sibil English was part of the independent review of kying 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: A Aura and as whether Sybill, Very good morning to you. 7 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 2: Good morning Mike. 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: You've got some advice for Simeon. You've been Minister of health. 9 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 2: Look, there's been a lot you know, sim and previous ministers, 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 2: including under the Labor government, put a lot of extra 11 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: money into health, and I can understand why it feels 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,959 Speaker 2: a bit frustrated, and there's a lot of people need 13 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 2: care and it does look a bit political. 14 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so broadly, just let me broaden it out before 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: we get to the specifics of this report. When you 16 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: went in to have a look at Kayeing Aura, what 17 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: did you find? How bad was it and what's your 18 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: view of the turnaround thus far. 19 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: Look, I think they're doing a good job of the turnaround. 20 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: It's a big job. It's the biggest business in the 21 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: country by quite a long way, and a difficult one 22 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: to run because it so big, so Look, we found 23 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: an organization that had been following the directions of its 24 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: previous political masters and the previous labor government, and they 25 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: were spending very large amounts of money, running up very 26 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: large amounts of debt and getting some new houses, but 27 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: not near enough for the money that was going in. 28 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 2: But also there was a loss of focus on the tenant. 29 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: And the point of social housing is to change lives, 30 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: and that means focusing on the people more than the houses. 31 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: And it means who owns the houses is less important 32 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: than what you're doing to support the tenants? 33 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: Is seventy seven thousand and too many? Forkying or to own? 34 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: And of seventy seven thousands too many? What's the right 35 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: ish sort of number? What's the split? What should it be? 36 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: Well, you start from the start from the front life. 37 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: All solutions, how all housing solutions are local, and all 38 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: housing solutions are about individuals and families. So you know, 39 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: how many a many houses should someone own who is 40 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 2: supporting and understanding the needs of tenants and taking part 41 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: in the community. Well, do you need a bit of scale? 42 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: You know, probably a few thousand houses. I think Tomachy 43 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: Redevelopment Company has got about five thousand that looks about 44 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: looks about a good scale. What we found though, was 45 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: an impressive energy and innovation with everyone from Autism Zealand 46 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: to EWI and NGO's private developers who can do a 47 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: better job of this than kying aura that there's no 48 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: economies of scale the seventy seven thousand houses. In fact, 49 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: as the report shows, it's the opposite. The larger the business, 50 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: the more it's costing to do the houses. Now, the 51 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: current board will make the best of it. But the 52 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: best solutions we saw were with the ten or fifteen 53 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: thousand houses that are subsidized like state houses because the 54 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: government has to pay, but are run by people who 55 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: really understand the tenants, really to stand their community and 56 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: get great results from it. 57 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: All right, let's see where it goes while we've got 58 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: you your thoughts this morning. 59 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: On Jim Bolger, Ah, look it was I was wet 60 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 2: with Jim Bulger for many years in politics. He was 61 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: such an interesting mix. He was a conservative Taranaki farmer 62 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 2: who had the courage to kick off the Treaty settlement process, 63 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: took on his own party an election year in nineteen 64 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: ninety six to sign the Knight who and Tai Nui settlements, 65 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: so you know, underneath the political maneuvering was a will 66 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: of steel and some deep principle people forget. He was 67 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: also the guy who bought in MMP, made a promise 68 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: in the nineteen ninety election campaign to have a referendum, 69 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: oversaw that process, you know, accepting the will of the people, 70 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: although he didn't personally favor him MP, and then in 71 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six negotiated the first coalition. So he was 72 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: just a fascinating character. Such a mix of being true 73 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: to his background from Taranaki, his Catholic beliefs, his deep, 74 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: deep love of family on the one hand, and on 75 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: the other hand, executing some of the more radical changes 76 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 2: that New Zealand has seen. And I have to say 77 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: at the time didn't get much credit for it. And 78 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: I think his reputation has grown with the benefit of hindsight. 79 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: Our history is looking kind beyond. 80 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: Jim Bolgia very well said, appreciate your time, So Bill English. 81 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 2: For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 82 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 83 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.