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Speaker 1: Trouble and principle, and nine hundred and sixty seven principles

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Speaker 1: have quit in the past three years twenty percent in

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Speaker 1: the first year. We've got three hundred and fifty roles

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Speaker 1: being advertised each year since twenty twenty two. So Kate

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Speaker 1: Gainsville is the chair of the Secondary Principal's Council and

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Speaker 1: is with's Kate, morning to you, good morning. Make just

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Speaker 1: for reference's sake, the nine sixty seven quitting will some

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Speaker 1: of those include people quitting from one job to go

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Speaker 1: to another or not.

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Speaker 2: Well, you'll have to ask the ministry that I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure we've got the figures from, but that it is possible,

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Speaker 2: and some principles do move from smaller schools or rural

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Speaker 2: schools to city schools or legal schools. That's part of

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Speaker 2: the kind of pipeline for.

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Speaker 1: Careers because it sort of materially changes the number, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you're simply quitting as a principle to

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Speaker 1: move to be a principal somewhere else, it sort of

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Speaker 1: doesn't count, doesn't it. If you're quitting to walk away

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Speaker 1: from the profession, sure, yes.

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Speaker 2: But I think one of the other figures that the

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Speaker 2: ministry has been able to people as the number of

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Speaker 2: people who are new principles and that's higher than ever before.

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Speaker 2: So that's a figure that tells us that that six

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Speaker 2: seven is probably you know, it is much more about

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Speaker 2: people who are stepping into the role.

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Speaker 1: You why would you quit within a year? Did you

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Speaker 1: not know what you were getting into?

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Speaker 2: Well, I didn't do that, So I can only go

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Speaker 2: on the research, and the research tells us that there's

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Speaker 2: not a great deal of good, solid, reliable preparation for

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Speaker 2: principleship in New Zealand. In our system, we have a

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Speaker 2: system that relies very heavily on short term contracts with

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Speaker 2: private providers, and they have sometimes those contracts have disappeared altogether.

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Speaker 2: So there used to be a program called aspiring Principles

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Speaker 2: where people in middle or senior management could hook into

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Speaker 2: the scheme and there would be, you know, a process

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Speaker 2: you could go through to kind of figure out whether

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Speaker 2: it was for you or not and to kind of

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Speaker 2: prepare you. And other countries certainly have really solid systems

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Speaker 2: of preparation for principleship. In New Zealand doesn't have that.

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Speaker 2: And if you you know, there's a part of the

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Speaker 2: role that you can get used to when you're a

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Speaker 2: teacher and a middle leader and a senior leader, and

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Speaker 2: there's a part of the role that you can only

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Speaker 2: learn when you are in the job because you're the

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Speaker 2: only person in the school in that role. So the

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Speaker 2: support around it has in New Zealand not been great

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Speaker 2: in preparation and that's part of the recent Team.

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Speaker 1: Good insight Kat Apprisure Kate Gainswood, who's the chair of

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Speaker 1: the Secondary Principals Association. For more from the My Asking Breakfast,

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