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Speaker 1: So a big days the government released the Royal Commission

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Speaker 1: Report into the Abuse and care of the estimated six

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty five thousand who were supposed to be

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Speaker 1: looked out for about two hundred thousand ended up being abused,

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Speaker 1: in some cases torture. So next steps Minister Responsible Erica

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Speaker 1: Stanford's with us. Very good morning to you, whater Mike.

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Speaker 1: Have you got your head around the size and complexity

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Speaker 1: of what's about to happen as regards redress?

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Speaker 2: I have, and it is hugely complex. There was an

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Speaker 2: interim report done that had ninety five recommendations and one

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Speaker 2: of those was to set up an interim or sorry

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Speaker 2: design group matup survivors and they have had their own

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Speaker 2: ninety five seven recommendations around what the process could look like.

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Speaker 2: EDIT is very unique and there are a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of very challenging things for us and there to consider.

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Speaker 2: But I think you couldn't really understand that redress process

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Speaker 2: until you read the stories in this thought that's been

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Speaker 2: released recently and understand the scale and complexity of it.

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Speaker 1: How crunchy is it going to get when expectation doesn't

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Speaker 1: meet reality or reality doesn't meet expectation it's.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that we will have to manage

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Speaker 2: because the report from the Redress Design Group is very

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Speaker 2: innovative and there are a lot of things in there

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Speaker 2: that have been suggested that have never been done anywhere

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Speaker 2: else in the world. And so I've sat down with

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Speaker 2: that group and I've said to them and they understand,

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Speaker 2: they know that what they've put forward is very innovative.

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Speaker 2: And I've said to them, look, you know, we aren't

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Speaker 2: going to be able to do all of this. And

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Speaker 2: they said to me, we understand that, we know that.

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Speaker 2: And then I said to them, well, I need you

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Speaker 2: to tell me what are the most important elements of

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Speaker 2: this that we have to get right. And one thing

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Speaker 2: they said to me was it has to be survivor led.

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Speaker 2: You have to take us on the journey the whole way,

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Speaker 2: with all the decisions that you make.

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Speaker 1: How much of it's going to come down to money

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day.

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Speaker 2: Well, Christopher lux from the Prime Minister is said to

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Speaker 2: all of us, that's not to be considered at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Actually the first thing is first principles, what is the

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Speaker 2: right thing to do? And then right or part of

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Speaker 2: it will be money. But when you look at these survivors,

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Speaker 2: and I've spoke to the yesterday. I spent two and

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Speaker 2: a half hours with the survivors of Lake Alice and

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Speaker 2: then another hour or so with survivors yesterday. They're all

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Speaker 2: very different. Some just want an apology and an acknowledgment.

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Speaker 2: Some just want to get their teeth fixed. Some just

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Speaker 2: want some ability to talk to professionals about the trauma.

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Speaker 2: Does want a financial sentiment. It's very very different with

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Speaker 2: all of the things that they want, and it doesn't

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Speaker 2: always come down to money. Many people dirty money.

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Speaker 1: Can you make the faith based groups apologize or pay.

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Speaker 2: Well, We're going to do everything that we can because

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Speaker 2: they need to be held responsible and we will lean

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Speaker 2: on very hard. And if you look in Australia and

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Speaker 2: other countries, they have managed to bring the church is

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Speaker 2: on board in a readdress system where the churches chip

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Speaker 2: in and the government runs the system. So there are

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Speaker 2: lots of very interesting ways they do it around the

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Speaker 2: country where the are Crown Response and it has already

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Speaker 2: been engaging with the churches and they have been have

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Speaker 2: been engaging so far in good faith, and so I'm

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Speaker 2: hopeful and confident that they will come to the party

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Speaker 2: and so they should.

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Speaker 1: How do the legals work? Are the case that happened

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Speaker 1: allegedly in nineteen fifty nine, where memories are faded and

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Speaker 1: the evidence is gone, versus a case that happened in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine where the evidence is still there and

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Speaker 1: people are still employed. And who runs that? And are

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Speaker 1: the courts up for dealing with charges they may or

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Speaker 1: may not have ever seen before, things like torture?

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Speaker 2: Things?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is anyone equipped to deal with this?

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Speaker 2: In terms of memories and things happening? There are still

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Speaker 2: a lot of records. Yes, a lot of records have

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Speaker 2: been destroyed, but there are a lot of records. And

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Speaker 2: also this report that was cabled yesterday gives you a

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Speaker 2: very clear indication of where things happen and the time frames.

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Speaker 2: And we do have a lot of records about the

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Speaker 2: numbers of people and who went through those institutions, and

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Speaker 2: when you read the stories, they're all eerily similar. And

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Speaker 2: so you know, if we know that someone went through

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Speaker 2: a particular institution at a particular time, it's very likely

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Speaker 2: those things happened. You know, from all of those those

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Speaker 2: reports that we now have, the two four hundred people

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Speaker 2: that came forward to get evidence, we know.

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Speaker 1: When, where and what okay to bring it forward? Seven

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Speaker 1: double A, which is highly controversial. I rung at tamariki.

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Speaker 1: You take a child today in this modern era, out

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Speaker 1: and you then put them back in the Why to

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Speaker 1: find now the way to fine our abuses the child?

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Speaker 1: Who's responsible? And is this just not the modern version

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Speaker 1: of what was going on in the fifty sixties and seventies.

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Speaker 2: But what was happening back then was was just completely different.

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Speaker 2: You know, children were taken into state care. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: a belief in keeping children families, keeping them with their culture,

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Speaker 2: or even putting them with putting them in safe places.

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Speaker 2: It was all about institutionalized care and that did not

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Speaker 2: bode well for anybody.

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Speaker 1: See the different examples and completely different examples. Because abuse

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Speaker 1: is abuse.

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Speaker 2: Well, abuse happens everywhere, and it's it is difficult to

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Speaker 2: always completely get rid of it and stop it from happening.

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Speaker 2: All weeven is make sure that we're putting learning the

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Speaker 2: lessons of the past and putting in place the processes

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Speaker 2: that will stop it happening again. And look, I don't

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Speaker 2: know all of the answers moving forward and all of

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Speaker 2: the different minister's portfolios about how we're going to deal

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Speaker 2: with us. What the report does do. It tells us

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Speaker 2: very clearly what happened when we did certain things, and

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Speaker 2: we need to now take all of those lessons and work,

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Speaker 2: you know, work on what we do moving forward. And

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Speaker 2: we don't have all of those answers yet, and as

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Speaker 2: the lead master, don't have the knowledge of everyone's individual

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Speaker 2: portfolios as to what they're going to do. But think firstly,

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Speaker 2: we will all start working in our individual portfolios on

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Speaker 2: changes we can make now well in advance of us

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Speaker 2: putting in places.

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Speaker 1: Recommendation, massive job, go well with appreciate it. Erica Stanford,

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Speaker 1: minister responsible for the Abuse in Care inquiry response. For

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Speaker 1: more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to News

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