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Speaker 1: The primise is back in the country. And as you

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Speaker 1: heard earlier on a week of some sort of crime

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Speaker 1: announcements or at least law and order announcements, we'll hopefully

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Speaker 1: get through some of those anyway. Chrystal Lux, Well, it's

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Speaker 1: good to see it, to be with you, Mike, and

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Speaker 1: and and for people watching this online. And you brought

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Speaker 1: me the map trying to button me up.

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Speaker 2: I'll trying to tell you the Pouhoy to walk Worth

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Speaker 2: Walkworth Road, which I call the Mike cost Memorial Highway

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Speaker 2: is now tomorrow is going to be operating at one

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Speaker 2: hundred and ten case the whole thing my case. Now

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Speaker 2: I'm off your case. You can be doing your best

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Speaker 2: in a Liam Lawson as your shot up there with

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Speaker 2: your hair flowing in the wind, and.

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Speaker 1: In the entire New free Way, one hundred and ten

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Speaker 1: kills a moment.

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Speaker 2: It's really good.

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Speaker 1: So soon, did you bring Amanda some duty free I didn't,

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Speaker 1: mate I should have. In hindsight, I thought I should

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Speaker 1: have brought some Dubai chocolate when I went through Dubai

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Speaker 1: for the changeover. But I said that to her when

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Speaker 1: I arrived, and she said that would have been nice.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't so well, yeah, that would have been nice.

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Speaker 1: That would be I did it fair enough now.

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Speaker 2: After I said every day is Valenti's over ups.

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Speaker 1: Okay, LAWA in order. The stuff that we've talked about

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Speaker 1: on the show this morning, it is coming this week

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Speaker 1: in the form that we've been talking about. In other words,

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Speaker 1: you're upping it on the first responders. And Sonny Koscher

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Speaker 1: is going to get some action on his recommendations from

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Speaker 1: this board.

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Speaker 2: Yep, hope, so yes, absolutely. I mean their first thing

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Speaker 2: is tomorrow our new senencing laws come into place. That's

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Speaker 2: where we've kepped the discounts that judges can give you

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Speaker 2: might remember, to forty percent. You can't have multiple remourses,

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Speaker 2: you can't do all that stuff. So that's been really

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Speaker 2: good because that's been part of the problem. And the

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Speaker 2: second thing is today obviously we've got this challenge on

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Speaker 2: first responders. It's quite frightening. If you're a paramedic or

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Speaker 2: a fire officer, firefighter, or a police officer or a prison officer.

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Speaker 2: The assaults on these guys has been profound, Like there's

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Speaker 2: been nine hundred assaults I think last year on prison officers,

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Speaker 2: eleven hundred on police officers, and these are key weis

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Speaker 2: that go in to try and help us into these

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Speaker 2: difficult circumstances. They don't deserve to get bashed or assaulted,

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Speaker 2: so they're not saying enough is enough on that.

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Speaker 1: One you concern this morning from the text is that

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Speaker 1: it's all very well to say maximums sentence is what

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Speaker 1: about the minimum? And what if the judges don't back you.

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Speaker 2: Well they need to we'll look at it again if

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Speaker 2: they don't. But I mean the point is I think

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Speaker 2: anyone listening to that would just say that's not right

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Speaker 2: that they You know, I've had people say to me, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: what's the evidence for putting a tougher sentence on them? Well,

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Speaker 2: I don't really care. I mean I want I want

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Speaker 2: the fire fighters and the paramedics safe. If you're working

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Speaker 2: at Saint John's, you go to help someone, you don't

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Speaker 2: deserve to get beat up.

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Speaker 1: As are you also announcing something on special development with

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Speaker 1: Tower wrong of this week? You have a deadline for

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Speaker 1: July one to announce something with somebody who put applications

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Speaker 1: into you. Yes on sorry, just in terms of special development,

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Speaker 1: In terms of central government aligning with local government around

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Speaker 1: city regional deal, yes, yes, yes, we've got that work underway.

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Speaker 2: More to say about that very shortly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, is it tower on them?

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to.

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Speaker 1: Say because you go, you smile, you gave it what

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Speaker 1: So it is.

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Speaker 2: People listening. It's not easy coming on this show. No, no,

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Speaker 2: it isn't.

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Speaker 1: So it's tower on. So now here's where it's going

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Speaker 1: to get ugly for you. This business of Ikea and

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Speaker 1: the moorification of Ikea. And I'm assuming everyone else who

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Speaker 1: wants to build something in this country explain it to me.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's insane. So I mean, first and foremost, getting

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Speaker 2: anything built in this country is very torturous. It's quite

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Speaker 2: a big process. As you know. You saw the issues

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Speaker 2: that have been raised where you've got lots of challenges

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Speaker 2: around getting stuff built. I actually met with the Ikea

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Speaker 2: owners when I was in the Netherlands. Actually it's run

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Speaker 2: out of the Netherlands, and they actually spoke quite positively

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Speaker 2: about the resource planning process. I said, I disagree. I said,

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Speaker 2: I think it's terrible. So why we're changing our fast

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Speaker 2: tracked laws. And we've also got the RMA Act being

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Speaker 2: reformed with new legislation in place.

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Speaker 1: So this is Labour's law, not yours. And once your

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Speaker 1: law comes in this stuff.

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Speaker 2: We have to stop all this dumb stuff that's going

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Speaker 2: on that's making it very difficult in adding huge amounts

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Speaker 2: of cost to get.

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Speaker 1: So when does that law?

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Speaker 2: Everybody?

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Speaker 1: When does this stuff stop?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So basically Bishop will have a draft in place

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Speaker 2: by July August and then we'll bring a first reading

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Speaker 2: into the House to make it law by the end

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Speaker 2: of this year.

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Speaker 1: So any new contract sign will no longer have these

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Speaker 1: sort of clauses.

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Speaker 2: Well, we want all this stuff stripped out right. This

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Speaker 2: is all dumb stuff that's adding huge amounts of costs.

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Speaker 2: There's a bunch of things around you. And I talked

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Speaker 2: about the role of regional councils for example going forward,

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Speaker 2: as well as well as consultation with EWEI. We've got

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Speaker 2: a situation, for example in tarrong A Port where there's

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Speaker 2: been a dispute going on between EWE District Council and

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Speaker 2: the port company. Now for EBOU seven years to build

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Speaker 2: two simple berths, I've probably got six or seven ships

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Speaker 2: sitting out there right now. But I'm sorry for ports.

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Speaker 2: We need to be able to crash through all that

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Speaker 2: stuff and get stuff done and built.

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Speaker 1: Are you going to be able to go to the

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Speaker 1: election next year with these laws in place and all

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Speaker 1: of this tidy up, because your reputation's being hurt by

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Speaker 1: this ongoing whether it's the previous government or not you're

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Speaker 1: in charge, by this ongoing idea that you haven't quite

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Speaker 1: clamped down on what you need to.

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Speaker 2: There's three things we're trying to do. First of all,

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Speaker 2: we kill the madness of RMA two point zero under Parker.

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Speaker 2: We then put the fast trap provisions in place. That's

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Speaker 2: working really well. It's actually got new people putting projects

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Speaker 2: in there, which is good. Especially it's coming together forward

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the year with a new proposal

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Speaker 2: for the r and MAT that simplifies it tremendously prioritizes

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Speaker 2: economic growth, and you'll take that bill into the House

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of the at the end of this year.

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Speaker 2: So we should be having that process up and running with.

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Speaker 1: The focating completely while you're also away farner or two

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Speaker 1: things out of them. One Rokal who runs it, says

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Speaker 1: Maori issues don't come to the fore with mainstream parties.

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Speaker 1: Therefore she needed to spend some money on hiring Tom

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Speaker 1: Eat to spend thirty minutes telling us why you should

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Speaker 1: enroll in them low wrong.

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Speaker 2: Those allegations are incredibly concerning. If public money has been

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Speaker 2: used in that way, that is utterly unacceptable. Well we

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Speaker 2: know it has. Well. The second thing I just say

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Speaker 2: to you, though, is both those organizations use public and

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Speaker 2: private money, and so the reason for the investigation, which

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Speaker 2: will be done in July, is to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we need to stain where the public money has been

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Speaker 2: used for those campaign I don't.

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Speaker 1: Think she's claiming private money. I mean, the more on

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Speaker 1: the specificar people are claiming privately.

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Speaker 2: I just want to make we need to make sure

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Speaker 2: because if it's a pretty serious allegation, it's got some

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Speaker 2: pretty big consequence. It's a good reason for why Tama

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Speaker 2: Potarka has actually tried to sharpen up Funna or a

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Speaker 2: big time. I mean, we've had three commissioning agencies for

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand for the last decade or so. He's

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Speaker 2: got rid of them all. He's put four brand new

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Speaker 2: ones and that take effect as of tomorrow. He's also

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Speaker 2: then got new contracting in place to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we actually do have conflicts well managed, we have outcomes

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Speaker 2: really well articulated good data that drives into outcomes and

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Speaker 2: a bunch of common sense stuff that you would expect.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, on the surface, the ability of funer or

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Speaker 1: to give money to people to make an ad to

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Speaker 1: encourage people onto the maori role, which is electioneering.

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Speaker 2: That would be utterly unacceptable.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what will happen if that's the case.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, both these organizations are no longer involved in

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Speaker 2: fun aura, but we would need to look at prosecutions

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Speaker 2: and other things that we remedy.

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Speaker 1: The same applies to more on a pacificate because they're

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Speaker 1: the ones as far as I can work out, the

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Speaker 1: arguing there was some public money at the start, but

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Speaker 1: then they argue it's been mainly private money since then,

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Speaker 1: and you can't.

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Speaker 2: Well, I want to be really definitive that you need

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Speaker 2: to know one hundred percent for sure, given the seriousness

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Speaker 2: of those allegations, whether the public money has been used

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Speaker 2: or not, and what recourse if it has been.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Also, while you're away one two seven Big of

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Speaker 1: the Education Act, Erica Stamford was on the program about

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Speaker 1: this entrenching to terrrity etc. Into the education business in

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Speaker 1: this country. She says Goldsmith's reviewing it. I was told

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Speaker 1: that Goldsmith's reviewing it because that's a compromise. It should

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Speaker 1: have been gotten rid of. You didn't, so you're reviewing

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Speaker 1: it with a view to what.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of things here. The first and

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Speaker 2: foremost thing is we have to make academic achievement the

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Speaker 2: priority for these school boards, which is what she's done.

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Speaker 2: You know, attendance is abysmal, maths and reading. We've got

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Speaker 2: big jobs to do there. We want that to be

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Speaker 2: unambiguously the number one priority of any school board. The

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Speaker 2: second thing, as you're right, there's a huge amount of

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Speaker 2: treaty obligations and the application of that across a bunch

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Speaker 2: of education regulation. It's not just in this particular bill.

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Speaker 2: We want to deal with that in quite a coherent

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Speaker 2: kind of way because it's then and Goldsmith's doing a

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Speaker 2: bunch of work on the broader treaty clauses, obligations that

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Speaker 2: are existing in all legislation, and we're working our ways

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Speaker 2: when we see that, well, he's already started that process

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Speaker 2: because there are somebody see here to fix and there

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Speaker 2: are some that are If.

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Speaker 1: He's as fast on this as he is with Napui,

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Speaker 1: You and I are going to be you and I

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Speaker 1: are going.

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Speaker 2: To be dead. Well, I just say. But the other

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Speaker 2: thing is this will go through a full select committee

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Speaker 2: process as well, so you know there's an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: So that's well into next year presumable.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, this particular education bill, people can feed into

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Speaker 2: that their view.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a select committee right now.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Can that be done separately to the broad based stuff

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Speaker 1: that you're talking about with Goldsmith or is it all

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Speaker 1: going to be done separately individually altogether?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we'll listen to the select committee feedback

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Speaker 2: of there's strong views. We've obviously got to make the

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Speaker 2: bill better. If there's things that we can do, there

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Speaker 2: will be other things that people might think we should

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Speaker 2: have boards focused on as well. My major focus on

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Speaker 2: this was to make sure they understood academic achievements freaking important,

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Speaker 2: because that was rather oddly not even a concern and

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Speaker 2: no wonder fifty percent of our kids a arrive at

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Speaker 2: high school not where they need to be. On reading

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Speaker 2: on the on the treaty piece on the education, there's

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Speaker 2: a whole bunch of education regulations. There's a massive, big

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Speaker 2: set of education acts that actually have this. You know,

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Speaker 2: the application of those treaty obligations through all of that,

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Speaker 2: but also it's an other legislation as well, probably up

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Speaker 2: to forty other bits. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So also while you're away, Goldsmith's on the program and

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Speaker 1: he says Napooi might be sorted in the next two

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Speaker 1: or three years, already having spent twenty million dollars on

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Speaker 1: airfares and lunches. Yeah, so as Jones got the answer

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Speaker 1: with a bill that forces them into a singular deal, Well,

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Speaker 1: I will take it or leave it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean I think we're getting to a

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Speaker 2: point where we the carry on and just leave you know,

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Speaker 2: the Narpooi settlement and on the back burner as it

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Speaker 2: has been over the last government, and we will either

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Speaker 2: way find a way through and we're going to give

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Speaker 2: it one more go. We're going to give it a go,

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Speaker 2: and we've got new negotiators in place and we're very happy.

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Speaker 1: Whon't you stick a deadline on it like Bolt you

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Speaker 1: talked about all those years, Well, either pony app or

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean I've been off the view.

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Speaker 2: We've we've got through probably there's one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: settlements roughly. I think from memory, there's over one hundred

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Speaker 2: of them have been done already. We're now down to

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Speaker 2: some difficult ones that have some definitional issues about on

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Speaker 2: the hierarchy planes, there's obviously the Narpooi and the North

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Speaker 2: are the two big ones. We've got to work our

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Speaker 2: way through those and try and get those resolved. I

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Speaker 2: want to get if we get another third of those

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Speaker 2: out the door, that would be fantastic. Why do we

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Speaker 2: want them out the door, because actually it's amazing. You

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Speaker 2: just watch Waikato Tyn do a deal with Brook billion

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Speaker 2: dollars on internal people don't want to do a deal

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Speaker 2: thing about Narpooi up north. It's the biggest tragedy in

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Speaker 2: my view, which is that their failure to actually secure

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Speaker 2: a settlement means that they're not able to their community.

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Speaker 1: But the failure, I mean, how much more money do

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Speaker 1: you want to spend?

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Speaker 2: It takes two to tango, but we're going to give

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Speaker 2: it one more.

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Speaker 1: Go and in thirty seconds or least, can you explain

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Speaker 1: to me what fin or is Is it a race

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Speaker 1: based organization or not?

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Speaker 2: No, I know it's not. It's designed to help all

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Speaker 2: News Islanders.

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Speaker 1: How can you can you know me a single call

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Speaker 1: or they've given anyone who's not Mario Pacific ond.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can. I mean, if I think about the

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Speaker 2: work that they do, a different community organizations will be

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Speaker 2: commissioned to do work on attendance services. There's been some

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Speaker 2: outstanding work done on childhood immunizations and immunizations with the

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Speaker 2: general population, led by Maori organizations. So we just believe

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Speaker 2: fundamentally that actually community organizations that actually have high trust

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Speaker 2: with communities, that can actually get tasks done that we can't,

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Speaker 2: you know, social services, tasks and protection. So you defend

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Speaker 2: them generally, Yeah, because I mean, Loo, look at I mean,

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Speaker 2: we spend thirty two billion dollars on healthcare, we spend

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Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty million dollars on fun aura right,

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Speaker 2: And yes, I mean, I mean, you know, it's why

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Speaker 2: Tim are impressed with how he's gone about trying to

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Speaker 2: tighten it all up and get it gripped up and

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Speaker 2: change the current set of commissioning agencies. But if you

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Speaker 2: look at someone like Na Tahoo now who is off

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Speaker 2: tomorrow will take over as one of the big commissioning agencies.

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Speaker 2: You know the commercial they are literate, they know their communities,

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Speaker 2: are really well embedded in the eighteen different you know,

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Speaker 2: one an across the South Island. They know what's needed,

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Speaker 2: and we should sitting in Wellington with some bureaucracy trying

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Speaker 2: to perfectly target and deliver cash to deliver a task

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Speaker 2: of immunizations or getting kids to school. You know, why

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Speaker 2: wouldn't we try that through community organizations? And we've had

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Speaker 2: some really great results in those in those efforts. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I still I believe in it. I hear your frustration,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's a frustration we've had as well,

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Speaker 2: which is that you know, when you're not managing conflicts,

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Speaker 2: when you're not having real cleric outcomes based contracts, when

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Speaker 2: you're not having auditing happening, when you're not having data

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Speaker 2: collection to prove that it's driving improved outcomes. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's a basic right when we should be able to

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Speaker 2: sort that out, which is what time is doing.

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Speaker 1: All right, Good to see you for more from the

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Speaker 1: Mic Asking Breakfast, Listen live to news talks. It'd be

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