1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political lediters of us Hey, Thomas Heather. 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 2: Hello, when Labor goes. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: Crying to Daddy and saying the Prime Minister needs to 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: come and sort out Winston. They do not for one 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: second believe the Prime Minister is going to sort out Winston? 6 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Do they? 7 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 2: No? I don't think so. In fact, I asked, I 8 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: asked Chris Hopkins about this today. Actually he had. He 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: made the point, Look, if the prime minister is that, 10 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 2: you know, as the prime minister, he should treat all 11 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 2: of his his ministers equally when they when they get 12 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 2: things wrong. Obviously that's that's good in theory. But the 13 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: allegations obviously that that Christopher Luxen doesn't treat the act 14 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 2: ministers and doesn't treat the New Zealand First ministers as 15 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: equally as he does his own National ministers. And Aceptkins said, 16 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: you know, look, we always, we basically always did that, 17 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 2: and he was actually referring to the time when he 18 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: was Prime minister when of course all the ministers barring 19 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: the Green Ones, were Labor ministers because they were a 20 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: majority government. And I seem to recall, you know, under 21 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: the under the air dourn years in that first term. 22 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: It wasn't always the case that the that the New 23 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: Zealand First Ministers were treated equally to the labor ministers. 24 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: You know, people like Clear Curran metaphytally had the book 25 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: thrown at them and and sometimes those New Zealand First ministers, 26 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: you know, there's those issues around around the regional flights 27 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: and Shane Jones having a bit of a cracket at 28 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: the chief executive of the New Zealand at the time. 29 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: Christopher Luxen And and and Ja Sinda gave gave the 30 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: New Zealand first minister's a pretty long leash back then, 31 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 2: as I recall, so I think there was a weaver 32 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:26,919 Speaker 2: of hypocrisy here totally. 33 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: Have you heard the rumor that ran Z is going 34 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: to have its funding cut and the budget? 35 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: Yes, I have, I have, I've heard, and I think 36 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: this has been reported and media insider in the Herald. 37 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 2: It looks like they might be looking to take some 38 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: of that funding from RNZ and putting it put it 39 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: into a contestable fund of some sort, maybe an engine 40 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: on their style fund for some of the private media 41 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: companies to do other stuff with. I'm not sure exactly 42 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: the details of that. But but yes, I have actually 43 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: heard that, and so I wouldn't say that if that 44 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: if there is a funding cut, I wouldn't say that 45 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: it would be because of what happened. 46 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: No, No, And that's the thing, right, I mean, and 47 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: this is where labor is really drawing a very long bow, 48 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: because it's already kind of public. Well, we already had 49 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: heard these rumors, it's already going to happen. So when 50 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: Winston said, it was more like he accidentally lets something 51 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: out of the bag rather than he was threatening them 52 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: with the funding cut. 53 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, precisely. And the way that his words were this morning, 54 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: I sort of I felt that he was you could 55 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: read them in a certain way that he was saying, 56 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: this is why this is happening. Rub Yeah, So. 57 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: How do we feel about this expensive road north? 58 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: Well? Look, I have been on the existing road. I'm 59 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: not I'm not an Ortander. I live in Wellington, but 60 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: and I have to say it's it's a it's not 61 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: a great not a great road. The first part is 62 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: that it's so I can see a statement, right, Yeah, 63 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: whenever whenever we do a story about this road, everyone 64 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: everyone loves reading about it. People can't get enough of 65 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: this road. It is certainly a very expensive road, I think. 66 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: You know, we've heard figures are up to ten billion dollars, 67 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: so that that might be a bit of a bit 68 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: of a problem. You can sort of see some people 69 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 2: in the South Island looking enviously up at Northland thinking, hey, 70 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 2: you know, ten billion dollars of paper on roads down south. 71 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 2: But but I don't I have to say, I don't 72 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 2: regrudge Northland as Northland as that road. That is a 73 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: pretty that is a pretty rough stretch of stay highway. 74 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: Listen, Thomas, I do not get upset anymore about the 75 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: Marti Party not turning up with things like the Privileged Committee, right, 76 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: because should we not just accept that these people are 77 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: the whole the whole point of their party is to 78 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: kind of push back against rules. Here they have an 79 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: opportunity to do exactly that they're going to do it, 80 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: aren't they. 81 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, they do seem to operate in a very sort 82 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: of TikTok universe, you know, I sort of I sometimes 83 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: read a lot of what they do, you know, that 84 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: they're thinking about how this look on TikTok, how this 85 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: look on social media, rather than actually engaging in good 86 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: faith look that they make some arguments around Tea Kang 87 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: are in the House and changing the rules of the 88 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: House to be more accommodating. Parliament has an obligation to 89 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: hear those objections. But but they're not going to hear 90 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: them if the Marty Party aren't actually in the room 91 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: to make those comments. And so yeah, I would say, 92 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: and i'd later thinks they should shot up to their 93 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: likely coalition partner. So I think I think it probably 94 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: would be fear for them to show up. It's pretty bad. 95 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: What's the punishment if they don't show up? 96 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: Well, that they can they The Privileges Committee has very 97 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: broad powers. They can they can issue fines, they can 98 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: issue punishments of of I think in the in the 99 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: in the past that they could actually issues jail to terms, 100 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: which I don't think is on the table this time run, 101 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: but a long time ago they could do that. I 102 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 2: think they can actually issue fines, doc pay contind with 103 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: the House. 104 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: It is. 105 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: It is a bit of a wet bus stack and 106 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: you saw it. 107 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: So But Thomas, isn't this actually exposing the ridiculousness of 108 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,679 Speaker 1: these rules, Like it's a convention that people actually behave 109 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: themselves properly in parliament. There's no actual real punishment if 110 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: you don't. 111 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is that is that is the real, 112 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: the real dilemma at the heart of this, which is 113 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: that you know, Parliament can only function if one hundred 114 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 2: and twenty MP's agree that they're all going to act 115 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: up some of the time. But here's the line, and 116 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 2: if you cross the line, then you know, there's an 117 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: acceptance that you sort of stand withdraw and apologize and 118 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: come back into you know, what's permitted. If one party 119 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: does regularly behave in a way that's very disruptive and 120 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: not within those rules, then that is going to be 121 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: a really big problem. So they all need to the 122 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: multi party everyone else needs to sort it out because 123 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: it won't you know, it won't function if they can't. 124 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. True. Hey, thank you very much. As always, Thomas, 125 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: It's Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editor. For more from 126 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news Talks. It'd 127 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.