1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: N CEA. Speaking of the kids. N CEA exams have 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: been running for only one week and already we've got 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: to complaint that the exams are too hard. Now. The 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: teachers at Diocesan Girl for School for Girls in Auckland 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: have written to NZQA complaining about the Level two maths 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: and biology papers. The school's head of maths says that 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: the writer of the algebra paper was trying to be 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: creative and was a little too far removed from the classroom. 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: The principle of DIO in Auckland is Heather mccrayon with us. Now, hey, Heather, 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: how are you? 11 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: How are you? 12 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: I'm very well, thank you? So what I mean like, 13 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: have you had a look at this? Does this genuinely 14 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: look too hard to you? 15 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: Well? It were just parts of questions, Heather, that were 16 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: outside of you know, the guidance. It's in the curriculum 17 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: and it wasn't all questions, but there are some parts 18 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 2: of questions that weren't specifically relevant to what was required 19 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: to be taught. And I think that's an issue for 20 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: students throughout New Zealand. And you know, we want assessments 21 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 2: at the highest standards, you know, particularly those that are fair, reliable, 22 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: and they could to be valid, and you know, we 23 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: had questions around that, and I think all of our 24 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: students in New Zealand should for their national qualifications have 25 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 2: an assessment that is all those three things fair, valid 26 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: and reliable. 27 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: So did you look at the maths paper in the 28 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: biology paper? 29 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: Not in detail. I've taken feedback from the head of 30 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: Maths and also the head of Biology and also our 31 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: heads of faculty who have oversight of them. So they 32 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 2: confirmed that there were parts of questions that were very 33 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: hard for students to actually get an idea of what 34 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: the examiner was asking and where you've got, you know, 35 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: really literate kids who are having problems with that. I 36 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: think sometimes that it's easy to read and proof read 37 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: an exam paper, but you have to actually do it. 38 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: And I would like to see much more rigor put 39 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: into sure that those assistments are valid and reliable and 40 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: also fare. 41 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: Okay, so the complaint about the Maths paper is question 42 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: one D on page four. I'm having a look at 43 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: this right and basically what it is is they've got 44 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: a cylinder and it's a drinks manufacturer who wants to 45 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: be able to have the cylinder hold a volume of 46 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: five hundred mills, but reduce the surface area that the 47 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: cylinder has. That's a straight math's equation. What's hard about that? 48 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: This is level two? 49 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: No, that's fine, But there are other parts of that question. 50 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: I understand. You know that our head of faculty questioned, 51 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 2: and that's. 52 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: The that's the one that we were told as a problem. 53 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: We were told level two mathematics with stats paper is here, 54 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: see question one D on page four. 55 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 2: And that's what I'm okay, right, Well, you know I 56 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 2: can't tell you the details of that. I'm a scientist myself, okay. 57 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: And you're are you like EUFA with the biology question 58 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: about the cats and the dominant and the the recess 59 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: of genes. 60 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 2: There was a comment that burn It passed on to 61 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: us about one particular question that enrolled involved I think 62 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: the difference between messenger RNA and transfer rna. And you 63 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: know that that is often not taught to a higher level, 64 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: and certainly I did when I did my biochemistry degree. 65 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: We didn't do that till level one at university. And 66 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: I understand them perhaps looking to see what's beyond you know, 67 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: the concepts of that question. But by the same token. 68 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: If it's outside of the curriculum, then it is unexpected. 69 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: You will get a normal spread of achievement anyway through 70 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: asking students what they know in canboo. But if you 71 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: ask well beyond that, you know you're dealing with students 72 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: who are committed to learning. You know they're nervous about 73 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: examinations anyway, and then you know, you put them in 74 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: a situation where they make a question really hard and 75 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: outside of what they know, and you know, is that fair? 76 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: I don't think it gives students the right opportunity to 77 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: find out what they know, understand and can do. 78 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, the reason I'm asking you this hither, and I'm 79 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: not accusing you guys of this at all. I'm just 80 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: trying to establish with what is going on is that 81 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: we have too much of educators making excuses for kids 82 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: at the moment. Is that possible? 83 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: That's an interesting question in what way? 84 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: Well, I just see at the moment because we're having 85 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: this back and this is a broader discussion, and I'm 86 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: just trying to figure out if this is what is 87 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: going on here. So you know, I'm not saying it is. 88 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: I'm asking you the question, but we do have this 89 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: at the moment discussion going on in the country about 90 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: beefing up the curriculum across a whole bunch of areas, 91 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: and there are a lot of educators coming out and say, oh, 92 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: I can't possibly do that, can't possibly make the kids 93 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: at these exams and stuff, and it almost is just 94 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: like accepting a dumbed down version of society. And I 95 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: just want to explore whether that is going on here. 96 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not one of those. They're not die and 97 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: our school is not like that. But what we do 98 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: want is a very strong and rigorous qualification for our 99 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: students through NCA. And to be honest, we haven't had 100 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: a lot of confidence and rolled out of the changes 101 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: to NCA, which we think will be good because they 102 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: do reinforce the rigor of NCA and we are fortunate 103 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: enough to offer international Bagloriate as well. But for other 104 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: students who don't have that opportunity, we want a really 105 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 2: high quality MCA qualification with assessments that are fear reliable 106 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: and reflect the highest standards of assessment that are available. 107 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: And I'd like to see that really improve throughout the country. 108 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: All right, Hey, Heather, thank you for your time. Has 109 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: always really appreciated is Heather McRae, who is the principle 110 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: of dire in Auckland. Hither my daughter prepared well for 111 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: the Level two Maths and biology and came home pretty 112 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: disappointed because the exams were blow hard. To be fair, 113 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: I couldn't have answered either of those questions. To be 114 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: fair to me, it's been a while since I did. 115 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,559 Speaker 1: I didn't actually do n CEA. Did I was before 116 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: the time of NCAA. But I mean, it's well over 117 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: twenty years since I was sitting my level to biology class. Jeez. 118 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: But man, I looked at that and I thought, I'm 119 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: so glad I'm not at school anymore. For more from 120 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd 121 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.