1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Back to the procurement business where these local businesses get 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: some sort of foot up when it comes to bidding 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: for government work. A lot of rules get dropped, which 4 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: is good. Are smaller deals under one hundred thousand k 5 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: deal The expectation is the local will get the job anyway. 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: The Economic Growth Minister Nicolai willis on this good morning. 7 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: And a very good morning to you. 8 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: The price aspect, do are we being gouged? Do a 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: lot of big international players come in low ball it 10 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: and then try and recoup later. 11 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: Look I do hear that from some small businesses who 12 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: are trying to get government contracts. Which they also tell 13 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: me is look, we seem to sometimes know the price 14 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: of everything and the value of nothing, which is to say, 15 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: it's all very well and good. The Aussie firm pipping 16 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: the key, we firm at the post at a lower price. 17 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 2: But then what about the opportunities that robs from New 18 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 2: Zealanders in terms of jobs, skill development, the building of 19 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: a small business into a larger business. And we do 20 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: need to take that into account and that's what these 21 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: new rules allow us to do. 22 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: Can you are there people who are genuinely any good 23 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: at big stuff? I mean the small stuff I'll come 24 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: to in a moment. But the big stuff, if you 25 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: can go local, are there people to make it local? 26 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: Well, let's think about it. So you think about Datacom. 27 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 2: Actually they are an at scale firm who specialize in 28 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 2: a delivery of digital services. And there are other firms 29 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: that are of a similar scale. Are there bigger firms 30 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: in Australasia and in Asia? Sure there are. But how 31 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 2: do you become a bigger firm? You actually get a 32 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: few big contracts. You build up your skill and your 33 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: expertise over time. And that is the case similar in 34 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: the construction area or in many other areas. It's actually 35 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: getting the big government contracts sometimes that allows a firm 36 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: to get to an expert size. 37 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: Okay, so here we are Wednesday morning and you're waving 38 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: the patriotism flag. Tomorrow you're going to be saying to 39 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: all the international big boys have flown into the country, 40 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: come on, and we love you. So how do those 41 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: two messages dovetail? 42 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: Well, I only want firms coming to New Zealand to 43 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: invest if I can be clear that they're going to 44 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: create benefits for New Zealanders. So when international firms come here, 45 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: often it's their investment that will allow New Zealand businesses 46 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 2: to expand, to create more jobs, to invest in the 47 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: next piece of cast or the next factory that allows 48 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: them to pay hire incomes. So this is about the 49 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 2: fact that we're in a race for the world's money, 50 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: and international money when it comes to New Zealand can 51 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: benefit kiwis. That's the point. 52 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: As far as this procurement thing goes, this value to 53 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: New Zealand, who decides that, how's it literally measured? 54 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: So literally, what we're doing is requiring every gauge agency 55 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: that's using public money that it must require that their suppliers, 56 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: when they're tendering for projects, must demonstrate how they will 57 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: deliver economic benefits to New Zealand. And agencies are required 58 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: to wait that as at least ten percent of how 59 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: they decide on the contract, and they must consider opportunities 60 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: like providing skills and training, employing workers here, paying taxes here, 61 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: developing New Zealand industry cape abilities, and agencies need to 62 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: demonstrate when they've picked those contracts how they measured those things. 63 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: Okay, I just can't work out in a country that's 64 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: broke and we hire the cheapest suddenly we're not hiring 65 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: the cheapest because we love New Zealander's not that I'm 66 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: against it. I'm just wondering whether we're just this has 67 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: got a bit more froth and bubble than substance to it. 68 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: Well, as I've said, it includes a minimum weighting of 69 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: ten percent for those economic benefits. Of course, cost will 70 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: still come into it. You still want people to be 71 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: able to get value for money. But it's about the 72 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: fact that when you're choosing a contract, you don't just 73 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: choose the cheapest one. Your wigh a number of factors. 74 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: And it's important for the growth of the New Zealand 75 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: economy that these billions of dollars the government spends every 76 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: year actually generating some jobs and some incomes and some 77 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: benefit for New Zealand, not just lining the pockets of 78 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: foreign firms. 79 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: I was watching you yesterday with the debt cost in 80 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: the house, and I'm looking at the Wellington lame O 81 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: councils and I'm just is this admire of an aptitude 82 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: in this country? Do we have the wherewithal to actually 83 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: pull our finger out and get our act together. 84 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: I think this should be our wake up call moment. 85 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: We went through six years of complacency in which we 86 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: allowed the government to tell us every problem could be 87 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: solved with more money being spent or the truth is, 88 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 2: we've got to work for it. We've got to earn 89 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 2: for it. And this is an economy that can grow 90 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: in which we do have messes of growth potential. We've 91 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 2: got to get a bit of red tape out of 92 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: the way. We've got to be more sensible with our 93 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: government policies. But we're a reform and government who's making 94 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: all of that possible. And I've got huge optimism for 95 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 2: New Zealand. We've got what it takes. We've just been 96 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: getting in our own way. 97 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: But you gave them the opportunity in Wellington for infrastructure, 98 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: give us a plan, and five of them, however many 99 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: there are, couldn't even come up with a plan. 100 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: Oh look, I'm not going to make any apologies for Wellington. 101 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 2: I was so embarrassed by that episode that they couldn't 102 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: even put their bickering aside for long enough to come 103 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: together and say, hey, this is why our region needs Nicola. 104 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: That's what you're dealing with. 105 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: Well, that's that's Wellington on that episode. But do you 106 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 2: know what I have faith and ratepayers who have the 107 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: power of the vote. And come counsel time, Mike, I reckon, 108 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,239 Speaker 2: you'll be seeing some changes and wait. 109 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: Well you want to hope, So all right, go well, 110 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Nicola Willis's Economic Growth Minister. For more from 111 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd 112 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.