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Speaker 1: The information provided in this program is of a general

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Speaker 1: nature and is not intended to be personalized financial advice.

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Speaker 1: We encourage you to seek appropriate advice from a qualified

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Speaker 1: professional to suit your individual circumstances. Infratell has owned some

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Speaker 1: of the country's most significant assets, including where I'm standing

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Speaker 1: now Wellington Airport. It's made shareholders double digit returns doing it,

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Speaker 1: but for how long can those returns last?

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Speaker 2: It is a gross stop stelle and yes it's returned

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Speaker 2: mayteen nineteen percent over the last thirty years, but the

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Speaker 2: investments that's got on in the sector that it's in,

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Speaker 2: it is still a growth story.

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Speaker 1: From nineteen ninety four to twenty twenty four, Infoteller's owned

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Speaker 1: major assets that a household names here and overseas.

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Speaker 3: Its best investment to.

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Speaker 1: Date was the Port of totong It where it made

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Speaker 1: it six times its money, and fuel companies at Energy,

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Speaker 1: which returned five times its money. Its first international investments

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Speaker 1: were in European airports that didn't go.

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Speaker 4: So well and they were bad.

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Speaker 3: Sold them for what two dollars New.

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Speaker 2: Zealanders one pound, but that was a mess.

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Speaker 1: Rob Morrison is the chairman of Morrison, the investment firm

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Speaker 1: that manages in Frattil for an annual fee. His brother

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Speaker 1: Lloyd started Morrison and then spun out in Forrattil to

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Speaker 1: the public market when he saw opportunity in infrastructure and utilities.

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Speaker 1: At the end of nineteen ninety five, Infratil had investments

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Speaker 1: in five assets. Now it has fifteen sixty percent of

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Speaker 1: those are overseas. Over thirty years, the company has averaged

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Speaker 1: an annual return of eighteen point seven percent to shareholders

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Speaker 1: after tax, well above the total ends at X Top

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Speaker 1: fifty index return of seven percent.

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Speaker 4: Read it to all the.

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Speaker 2: People that are involved in the organization, So you don't.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't happen by chance.

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Speaker 2: And I think one of the things is that Morrison

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Speaker 2: as the managers has maintained the culture. It's maintained its

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Speaker 2: investment style. It's it's maintained the way it goes about investing.

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Speaker 4: And that's that. It is a remarkable record.

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Speaker 2: It's very very hard to go there anywhere and find

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Speaker 2: a thirty year eighteen nineteen percent return.

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Speaker 4: It really, it really is difficult.

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Speaker 1: Lloyd passed away from leukemia in twenty twelve, aged fifty four.

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Speaker 1: That's when Rob stepped in. He was no rookie to investing.

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Speaker 1: Though having advised the float of in New Zealand in

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Speaker 1: the eighties, you carried on his legacy, as did the

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Speaker 1: others hear. What obligation did you feel to leave Morrison

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Speaker 1: after him, well asked me.

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Speaker 2: He asked me at one point to go on the

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Speaker 2: board of Invertill. I said no, I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: be an enlisted company. He asked me the chair Morrison

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Speaker 2: if he if he didn't survive, and I said no,

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Speaker 2: I said, You're going to survive, so let's not even

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Speaker 2: talk about it. So it's sort of it sat there

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Speaker 2: for a while, but we I was went still working

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Speaker 2: on the basis he was going to survive, and he

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Speaker 2: was certainly working on the basis he was going to survive.

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Speaker 2: So but he talked to me quite a few times

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Speaker 2: about what I take over if he died and and.

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Speaker 4: So so yes I did.

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Speaker 2: I've always felt that I wanted to help preserve his legacy.

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Speaker 2: The best way to do that is make sure that

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Speaker 2: the company is successful. But really the success of Morrison

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Speaker 2: and Infantil has been about the management. It's been about

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Speaker 2: incredibly incredibly talented management team and.

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Speaker 4: In a small number of people.

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Speaker 2: You've had Lloyd being the CEO of in Prattel, Marco

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Speaker 2: now Jason, A very small number of people over thirty years.

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Speaker 2: There aren't many listed companies that could say, okay, we've

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Speaker 2: only had three CEOs.

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Speaker 1: For example, you heard from Infratel's existing CEO, Jason Boyce

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Speaker 1: in part one. Now you're going to meet Marco Boggleevski.

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Speaker 1: He was the second CEO of in Brattel and the longest,

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Speaker 1: standing between two thousand and nine and twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: It was under his tenure that Infratil investors made most

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Speaker 1: of their money.

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Speaker 5: I think that probably the proudest thing, that's what you're

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Speaker 5: really asking, is probably the taking on what Lloyd Morrison

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Speaker 5: started and turning it into what it is today.

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Speaker 6: He's a shame he's not there to see the outcome

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Speaker 6: of you.

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Speaker 1: Marco led a significant shift getting Infratil's investments out of

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Speaker 1: transport and into digital infrastructure, including it's dominant data center

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Speaker 1: play and it's acquisition of One New Zealand.

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Speaker 5: I think we were always looking for the next sort

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Speaker 5: of you know, we used to think of them as vertical,

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Speaker 5: So the next industry that you could really identify where

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Speaker 5: you could invest and swim with the type. So I

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Speaker 5: know it sounds like a cliche, but investing is hard enough, right,

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Speaker 5: So if we try to find whole like demographic trends

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Speaker 5: and other trends that were very positive for infrastructure investment

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Speaker 5: and data growth was obvious sort of twenty years ago

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Speaker 5: to everyone, not just a Morrison, but we sort of

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Speaker 5: looked behind that and said, what sort of infrastructure would

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Speaker 5: you need to support that sort of growth in the future.

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Speaker 5: We know some of its sitting inside these integrated telcos

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Speaker 5: like one, and some of it was sitting inside these

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Speaker 5: next generation data centers, and so we managed to access.

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Speaker 6: Them, and we just sort of just rode the type and.

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Speaker 5: Like, I think there's a few other sectors coming, health

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Speaker 5: probably the next one. But we could have been wrong

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Speaker 5: as well. It could have been very wrong.

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Speaker 3: Did you ever think that.

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Speaker 1: Were there ever any moments behind closed doors where you thought,

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Speaker 1: if we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on this,

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Speaker 1: it actually might not work and you'd get roasted by

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Speaker 1: investors if that was the case.

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Speaker 5: We have sort of reasonable doubt and just about everything

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Speaker 5: we do, even though we've got quite strong top down

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Speaker 5: research of our own of our own, so we don't

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Speaker 5: really on other people's work. I think the thing is

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Speaker 5: not so much that idea was wrong. It's more that

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Speaker 5: a combination of the specific starting point at where.

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Speaker 6: We accessed it, how we you know, the management team

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Speaker 6: involved with it. Yeah, that could have gone wrong. I

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Speaker 6: mean stuff happens all the time, right.

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Speaker 5: And now, one thing about the Infertile portfolio, and this

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Speaker 5: might have might come up, is it's a high conviction portfolio.

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Speaker 5: And again that's a much used term, but if you

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Speaker 5: look at the composition today of the infantal portfolio, it's

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Speaker 5: not how you were classically designed an infrastructure portfolio.

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Speaker 3: Right, It's not very diversified.

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Speaker 6: Heavily overweight digital infrastructure and renewable energy.

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Speaker 5: So as it happens, those two things work quite well together,

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Speaker 5: and I think it's still actually a very strong positive outlook,

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Speaker 5: but it's not as classic portfolio construction. So it's always

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Speaker 5: been an absolute growth, total return vehicle. And that's actually

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Speaker 5: what Lloyd that was his mandate.

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Speaker 6: That's sort of get higher convection, find the best accessible.

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Speaker 5: Starting point you can, which is usually a management team,

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Speaker 5: and then sort of double down and build these development

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Speaker 5: platforms where you can and.

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Speaker 6: It worked, you know, thank got it work.

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Speaker 1: From the outside infratill always seems like an unstoppable force

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Speaker 1: doing deals with enormous institutional investors and superannuation funds, but

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Speaker 1: Marco says it was commonly chaos behind closed doors, including

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Speaker 1: on its biggest deals they're.

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Speaker 6: Going to If you remember the shell we bought Shells.

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Speaker 6: That was early on in New Zealand's downstream outset.

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Speaker 3: Which became an energy which became that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that was just that was on nine. That was

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Speaker 5: when the markets were crapping themselves and they had an

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Speaker 5: offshore owner who actually wasn't that fussy on what they

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Speaker 5: realized for it, and we just saw opportunity, you know.

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Speaker 5: We bought that with the super Fun. We actually didn't

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Speaker 5: have the cash to buy it. We sold our position

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Speaker 5: in Auckland Airport, which is a listed position. We stitched

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Speaker 5: up a deal with and the Zeeland super Fun to

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Speaker 5: buy the other half. There's a lot of hang wearing

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Speaker 5: in the background. There was only four hundred mil and

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Speaker 5: we did half of it, so it wasn't huge in

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Speaker 5: today's context, right, But we were scrounging, you know, and

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Speaker 5: looking at every empty drawer for that two hundred mil

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Speaker 5: to fund our share of it. And the funny story

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Speaker 5: about CDC is we missed out on CDC two years earlier.

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Speaker 6: How much cheap it half the growth?

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's what we thought, so, yeah, we could

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Speaker 5: have brought it.

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Speaker 6: We ended up four hundred mili for that for our

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Speaker 6: half of that asset.

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Speaker 1: But you could have paid two hundred mil two years earlier.

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Speaker 1: And you know how much it's worth now, Yeah, almost

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Speaker 1: five billion.

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Speaker 5: You are Infidel shares worth five billion. The whole thing's

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Speaker 5: worth ten. So anyway, so we were competing with the

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Speaker 5: private equity firm called Quadrant her very successful ozz ep.

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Speaker 5: They won that first deal that held it for a

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Speaker 5: short period of time.

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Speaker 6: We bought them.

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Speaker 5: We bought it off them a couple of years later

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Speaker 5: because we still love the asset and was the only

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Speaker 5: we thought the best positioned asset in this part of

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Speaker 5: the world.

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Speaker 1: You may recognize Marco from his Telecom days where he

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Speaker 1: was the chief financial officer alongside the n CEO Terresa Gassen.

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Speaker 3: That's where Lloyd Morrison took notice of them.

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Speaker 5: Telecom at that time was probably the the most hated

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Speaker 5: entity in New Zealand, would say, even though it was

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Speaker 5: about half the stock market and we had just gone

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Speaker 5: through that regulatory shift was separation.

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Speaker 6: And yeah, I'd resigned and didn't have a role.

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Speaker 5: I got an email from Lloyd saying and actually didn't

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Speaker 5: know Look and literally he said, I've just still got

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Speaker 5: the email, which I can show you later.

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Speaker 6: Hi, I'm Lloyd. You don't know me. I know you.

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Speaker 6: We need to talk.

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Speaker 5: And by the way, your talk on the services ship

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Speaker 5: was basically.

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Speaker 6: It is literally what he said is an email. What

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Speaker 6: did you say that you know?

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Speaker 5: Thanks very much? Yeah, exactly, So we agreed to talk.

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Speaker 5: You know, I knew enough about Lloyd that you know,

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Speaker 5: that's the way it is, right. Actually, that is literally

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Speaker 5: the way he was right. He actually thought the service

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Speaker 5: was shipped, right.

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Speaker 6: He was honest. He was here to tell you, you know.

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Speaker 5: And and he yeah. I met him on the terrace

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Speaker 5: there was old old building that Morrison Co. Had up

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Speaker 5: there and we had a chat with himself and another

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Speaker 5: guy called Bruce Harker, who's a name he might not

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Speaker 5: have heard of, but he's hugely instrumental in Morrison's success.

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Speaker 5: He's not involved with him today, but I just want

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Speaker 5: to make sure he got to mention because he was

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Speaker 5: a big part of getting my tension, but also working

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Speaker 5: well with Lloyd and myself and others, and yeah, we

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Speaker 5: Lloyd didn't have anything specific in mine. He basically used

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Speaker 5: his power of persuasion to say, look, I haven't got

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Speaker 5: a role.

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Speaker 6: I haven't got a job for you. You need to join

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Speaker 6: us and we'll figure it out later. Basically is what

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Speaker 6: he said.

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Speaker 5: And you agreed, and I agree with you. It's a

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Speaker 5: very persuasive clearly. Yeah, he sent me an employment agreement reluctantly.

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Speaker 5: We had this funny thing where he sent it to

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Speaker 5: me and I thought, you could do what you normally do,

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Speaker 5: which is look at it, mark it up, send back

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Speaker 5: a few comments. He said, I'm not changing it. You know,

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Speaker 5: I sent it to you. I said, okay, well outside it.

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Speaker 5: Then he asked me to do a one of those

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Speaker 5: personality tests. I said, I'm too old for a personality

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Speaker 5: I'm not doing any test. And so he considered it

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Speaker 5: on that one. So after about like a week of banter,

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Speaker 5: and you know, each agreed not to do what the

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Speaker 5: other person asked, we actually ended up getting a role.

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Speaker 5: He called it COO had no people responsibilities, no clear accountabilities.

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Speaker 5: I don't even have a desk, you know, and I

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Speaker 5: think when I walked into Morrison and Go, because you

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Speaker 5: were basically a Morrison employee.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, there were a few questions about how it's going

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Speaker 6: to work. And this is.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, mid eight we're talking about now. So before Lloyd

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Speaker 5: became ill and now she was hilarious. I mean, he

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Speaker 5: is so strong world wrote. He surrounded himself with good people.

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Speaker 5: You know, there's a lot of people you would have

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Speaker 5: known and meat and they've had a lot of success,

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Speaker 5: and they could have actually had the option of sort

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Speaker 5: of incrementally moving along. But Lloyd, I think said to me.

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Speaker 5: One of the first things he said to me was that,

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Speaker 5: you know, I think we're under something here. And he

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Speaker 5: was actually talking about Morrison, probably at that stage more

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Speaker 5: than inferdal And but you know, in his own ways.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how to scale it. It was sort

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Speaker 5: of interesting, right for a guy that's a massive pea cock,

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Speaker 5: huge personality, you know, you walked down the street and

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Speaker 5: every rather sort of know him and talk to me.

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Speaker 3: He was that's a very honest thing to say.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was really impressed. Actually, you know, I eat it.

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Speaker 5: I think you're saying, I know that I need to

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Speaker 5: put certain things in place. He wasn't talking about succession,

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Speaker 5: by the way, he wasn't talking about stepping down.

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Speaker 6: He wasn't talking about any of that. He just said,

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Speaker 6: I need help to.

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Speaker 5: Grow this thing, and which I thought, Yeah, it really

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Speaker 5: impressed me from from what was, you know, a great

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Speaker 5: starting point, but quite a small entity at that point,

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Speaker 5: and so we set it off. In the first six months,

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Speaker 5: we have been chaoic, to be honest, because I was

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Speaker 5: trying to find out what the hell was.

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Speaker 6: Going on and what the hell you were meant to do.

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Speaker 6: I didn't really have a job.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so it wasn't I actually thought at one stage

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Speaker 5: I thought that there was a chance that might not

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Speaker 5: work right because it was just I'm not that process oriented,

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Speaker 5: but I need a little bit of structure from.

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Speaker 1: A corporate like Telecom the beast into this chaotic Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I mean that was the extractive thing, to be honest,

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Speaker 5: that you were going into that more less structured environment.

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Speaker 5: But it didn't look like there was room. And then

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Speaker 5: then he became ill. January, Oh night, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: on vacation. He was to call and said, I'm have

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Speaker 5: had this diagnosis. I'm going to take some time off

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Speaker 5: and by the way, here are the keys.

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Speaker 6: You know he's to what you know, Well, here's the

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Speaker 6: keys to Morrison, to the whole fact.

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Speaker 3: What followed speaks for itself.

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Speaker 1: In Fritill's market capitalization has gone from fifty million dollars

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Speaker 1: at its IPO to more than ten billion dollars today.

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Speaker 2: It is a gross stop still. Yeah, and yes it's

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Speaker 2: returned madeen nineteen percent over the last thirty years. But

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Speaker 2: the investments that's got on in the sectors that it's

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Speaker 2: it is till a growth story and that's the thing

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Speaker 2: that to me is still really exciting about it.

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Speaker 3: So it's not too late buy and Rob I can't say.

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Speaker 1: The Morrison firm and Morrison family jointly own about five

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Speaker 1: percent of in frat till today.

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Speaker 3: They've been buying the stock in recent years.

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Speaker 2: I look at the Battel, I look at Morrison, I go,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're barely started. There's so much more to come.

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Speaker 1: Marco was still involved as an operating partner at Morrison,

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Speaker 1: but also has his own venture capital fund investing in

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Speaker 1: earlier stage companies.

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Speaker 6: Health is that next sector.

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Speaker 5: I think if I was running Morison today, I'd still

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Speaker 5: be pushing on now. We had started where we took

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Speaker 5: positions in retirement and that was around the view on

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Speaker 5: demographic trends, both like me getting close to living in

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Speaker 5: a retirement home.

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Speaker 6: You're away off here, Marco.

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Speaker 5: I'm getting Cletcher much and much closer. We diagnostic imaging

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Speaker 5: through specific radiology and Q scan the challenge. So those

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Speaker 5: are all greccial A good investments. The issue for us

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Speaker 5: at Morrison Infertil now is that they have the scale

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Speaker 5: to sit inside to be relevant for the portfolio. So

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Speaker 5: that's the tricky butt and fortunately I think the health

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Speaker 5: sector in New Zealand is big enough actually can afford

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Speaker 5: that scale. Want all that out, but it could be

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Speaker 5: in another areas that you don't sort of think of,

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Speaker 5: Like you know, cancer care sort of grows naturally out

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Speaker 5: of diagnostics, and some of the facilities you need to

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Speaker 5: deliver accessible healthcare require a lot of investments.

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Speaker 1: Healthcare is an industry. Lloyd Morrison knew all too well.

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Speaker 1: What's one thing you wish you could show them now

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Speaker 1: and say, look look what we did.

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Speaker 4: I think it would be the global push.

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Speaker 2: I think I think Lloyd Lloyd would have done it,

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Speaker 2: but I think he probably would have been more cautious

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Speaker 2: about doing it. So I think I think be able

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Speaker 2: to show them that we could take what he established

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Speaker 2: and grow it internationally would be the thing. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's what he would be really proud about, is

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Speaker 2: that it has gone into this big international business and

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Speaker 2: it's not well known as an international business. It's not,

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Speaker 2: but although increasingly it is an infrastruct in the infrastructure sector.

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Speaker 2: But I think showing him that actually what he thought

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Speaker 2: was capable, we're demonstrated as as a proof point. I

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Speaker 2: think that's that's probably. But I think the other thing

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Speaker 2: is that we've sort of kept this this We've tried

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Speaker 2: to keep the same values. So I think that's it'd

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Speaker 2: be pretty pretty happy about that.

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Speaker 6: I reckon he was.

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Speaker 2: He loved an argument. He and I used to argue

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Speaker 2: all the time. But he loved an argument and and

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Speaker 2: that was and that's part of part of the sort

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Speaker 2: of magic sauce here.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, You've got to be capable of arguing your point,

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Speaker 2: holding your ground, and pushing what you believe in.

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Speaker 4: And that's important. No one's a pushover, as I have learned.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Rob, I appreciate your time.

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Speaker 4: I had a much better wine collection than Lloyd.

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Speaker 1: Oh there you go, okay here now it comes out.

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Speaker 1: He knew it too, but he never admitted that he's

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Speaker 1: one to push

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Speaker 4: Over, hen't He used to enjoy drinking some of it.