WEBVTT - Nathan Wallis: Raising resilient children 0:00:05.761 --> 0:00:09.841 You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB. 0:00:14.441 --> 0:00:19.321 I love was on you and fair itsals. 0:00:20.401 --> 0:00:22.281 Men for someone else, but. 0:00:22.441 --> 0:00:23.521 Not all me. 0:00:26.561 --> 0:00:28.401 Love us out again me. 0:00:29.481 --> 0:00:30.721 That's the way it seemed. 0:00:32.121 --> 0:00:35.321 Get sup, I'll get all my dream. 0:00:36.601 --> 0:00:37.641 And then I saw her. 0:00:37.641 --> 0:00:46.921 Face not a dress and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. 0:00:46.961 --> 0:00:48.321 If you must have any of the previous house. It 0:00:48.361 --> 0:00:50.521 was a spirited conversation we had there with Ashley Church 0:00:50.521 --> 0:00:53.441 for the one Roof radio show. But that's the way 0:00:54.241 --> 0:00:56.361 Ashley and I love it when we get a few 0:00:56.401 --> 0:00:59.081 passionate callers about about things. You can check it out. 0:00:59.201 --> 0:01:02.601 Go to iHeartRadio, look for the Weekend Collective and we 0:01:02.641 --> 0:01:04.641 get the hours up as soon as we can once 0:01:04.641 --> 0:01:08.001 each other has concluded. Right now, it's time for the 0:01:08.001 --> 0:01:12.601 parents squad of My guest is a neuroscience educator. We're 0:01:12.641 --> 0:01:16.281 just how on a second, my we're just waiting to 0:01:16.321 --> 0:01:18.921 connect with them, actually, Nathan Wallace, but we are going 0:01:18.961 --> 0:01:22.561 to be me a chat about just are we actually 0:01:22.641 --> 0:01:26.281 making parenting harder than it needs to be? Because I 0:01:26.361 --> 0:01:29.281 think there's this, I think maybe there is a bit 0:01:29.281 --> 0:01:34.361 of a subtext as parents these days because we're all working. 0:01:34.401 --> 0:01:38.401 There's rarely do people have the luxury of staying at 0:01:38.441 --> 0:01:41.641 home of a stay at home parent long term, and 0:01:41.761 --> 0:01:44.881 parents both work, and I do wonder whether part of 0:01:44.921 --> 0:01:51.241 that is that people maybe over compensator are pretty full 0:01:51.321 --> 0:01:54.921 on when it comes to parenting, you know, whether we're 0:01:55.001 --> 0:01:57.201 just in our kids' faces, and when it comes to 0:01:57.201 --> 0:02:01.801 helicopter parenting as well. But are there ways that we 0:02:01.881 --> 0:02:05.681 are making things too complicated as parents want your cause 0:02:05.681 --> 0:02:07.601 on that O eight one hundred eighty ten eighty. The 0:02:07.641 --> 0:02:10.441 other side of that, of course, is that I was 0:02:10.481 --> 0:02:16.281 trying to remember when I was. When I was a student, 0:02:16.921 --> 0:02:19.321 we had extra curricular stuff, But I look at kids 0:02:19.361 --> 0:02:21.561 these days and god, they're doing heaps of things. Anyway, 0:02:21.681 --> 0:02:24.481 joining me to discuss it down on a second, just 0:02:24.761 --> 0:02:28.881 clarifying something technically, Yeah, there we go. Nathan Wallace, Hello, 0:02:29.681 --> 0:02:32.321 how are you not too bad? Sorry? I didn't realize 0:02:32.321 --> 0:02:34.881 you're on the line there. Just had a bit of 0:02:34.961 --> 0:02:37.401 issue trying to connect through what have you been keeping 0:02:37.441 --> 0:02:38.401 yourself busy with lately? 0:02:39.881 --> 0:02:41.721 I've been on holiday with my adult daughter. That was 0:02:41.761 --> 0:02:44.641 a new experience. Oh it was wonderful. 0:02:44.801 --> 0:02:47.041 Oh God, the way you said that was a new experience. 0:02:47.201 --> 0:02:48.561 I wasn't just. 0:02:49.241 --> 0:02:51.761 What seven been adults for that long, and I haven't 0:02:51.801 --> 0:02:55.001 really gone on a holiday with them and their partner before. Ah. Right, 0:02:55.481 --> 0:02:56.521 so that was a new experience. 0:02:56.641 --> 0:02:59.001 Oh good stuff, So you'd be well rested. 0:02:59.041 --> 0:03:01.641 Hey do you think I've had a week touring out 0:03:01.641 --> 0:03:03.001 in the South Island as well after that? 0:03:03.361 --> 0:03:06.001 Oh? Okay, so you've really what on holiday? 0:03:06.721 --> 0:03:09.401 No? No, no, that's right. You know, talks all through 0:03:09.441 --> 0:03:11.081 the last week and stuff. 0:03:11.401 --> 0:03:15.521 Hey do you think that is modern parenting? Do you 0:03:15.561 --> 0:03:18.601 think that parenting stars have changed quite a lot in 0:03:18.601 --> 0:03:21.041 the last of ten twenty thirty years with working parents, 0:03:21.041 --> 0:03:23.601 that we're making parenting harder than it needs to be. 0:03:24.561 --> 0:03:26.161 I think it certainly has changed a lot in the 0:03:26.201 --> 0:03:28.361 last thirty years, But I don't know if i'd agree 0:03:28.401 --> 0:03:30.041 with the making it harder than it needs to be. 0:03:30.121 --> 0:03:33.081 I don't think most people are. I think, you know, 0:03:33.121 --> 0:03:34.641 it doesn't wardly changing world. 0:03:35.721 --> 0:03:37.641 How do you think parenting has changed in the last 0:03:38.521 --> 0:03:41.401 you know, decade two or three? Yeah? 0:03:43.441 --> 0:03:45.721 Yeah, I think it's rapidly changing. You know, we're living 0:03:45.721 --> 0:03:48.041 in a world of rapid change. So you know, just 0:03:48.561 --> 0:03:50.881 my youngest is what just turn twenty five, But I 0:03:50.881 --> 0:03:52.801 didn't really have to deal with the social media thing 0:03:52.841 --> 0:03:54.801 too much. It was just cell phones and stuff. But 0:03:54.881 --> 0:03:58.281 now that's a huge issue. I think it is it's 0:03:58.321 --> 0:04:00.561 changing rapidly, parents are them to respond rapidly. Just the 0:04:00.641 --> 0:04:03.041 rate of change in the world is happening fast. These 0:04:03.121 --> 0:04:06.161 children got exposed to things like you know, which is 0:04:06.681 --> 0:04:08.721 two things that really arouse your brain stent and could 0:04:08.761 --> 0:04:12.401 cause you know, stress leads the negative outcomes as isolation 0:04:13.081 --> 0:04:16.361 and unpredictability, two of the things that we experienced during COVID. 0:04:16.401 --> 0:04:18.201 Now we might have handled it as adults, but the 0:04:18.241 --> 0:04:22.361 teenage brains particularly, it's susceptible of that. So children, I think, 0:04:22.921 --> 0:04:24.561 I mean, there's just so many things. They were all 0:04:24.561 --> 0:04:26.921 in childcare centers by the time they were one, We stayed, 0:04:26.961 --> 0:04:29.561 had a home parent tour. Eighteen twenty percent of them 0:04:29.561 --> 0:04:32.081 live in the same community as their family, their village, 0:04:32.081 --> 0:04:34.561 their grandparents and stuff. Eighty percent of us did in 0:04:34.641 --> 0:04:37.601 Generation X. Like it is a rapid amount of change. 0:04:38.081 --> 0:04:40.561 Yeah, that makes it sound like it's so I'm probably 0:04:40.561 --> 0:04:42.601 not so much tough for the parents, but certainly tougher 0:04:42.641 --> 0:04:46.361 for the kids. I mean, I think my upbringing being well, 0:04:46.401 --> 0:04:48.361 it's pretty straightforward. I think, went to school and I 0:04:48.361 --> 0:04:51.521 played rugby. Yeah, did you live in the same community 0:04:51.561 --> 0:04:55.601 as your grandparents for your uncle's and a no, no, no, 0:04:55.921 --> 0:04:59.601 And I didn't really might No, I didn't different sort 0:04:59.601 --> 0:05:01.681 of set up for us. It was more just because 0:05:01.801 --> 0:05:04.321 my dad would. My parents moved to Rua and that's 0:05:04.321 --> 0:05:06.401 where we were raised. But it was a pretty straightforward 0:05:06.401 --> 0:05:07.241 existence I think. 0:05:07.721 --> 0:05:10.401 Yeah, yeah, I was as in, you know, christ Church 0:05:10.441 --> 0:05:13.121 and my family were all in Milton still, so I 0:05:13.161 --> 0:05:14.721 had that, you know, was my kids werening around their 0:05:14.761 --> 0:05:16.321 uncles and aunties and grandparents immediately. 0:05:16.961 --> 0:05:20.761 How much difference does it actually make having those sorts 0:05:20.801 --> 0:05:23.601 of intruse family connections, you. 0:05:23.561 --> 0:05:28.681 Know, from each run by themselves, don't necessarily make or 0:05:28.681 --> 0:05:31.041 break the situation. So can we talk about risk and 0:05:31.041 --> 0:05:34.401 resiliency factors. It's really a balance between those. So certainly 0:05:34.761 --> 0:05:36.801 living in the same community as your grandparents and stuff. 0:05:36.841 --> 0:05:39.121 As a resiliency factor, you've got a relationship as a 0:05:39.161 --> 0:05:41.041 host with someone that loves you, sort of like a 0:05:41.121 --> 0:05:44.321 parent does outside the home, you know, the different perspective. 0:05:44.801 --> 0:05:47.281 So I just think how much my grandparents are rich 0:05:47.401 --> 0:05:49.641 my life. I would hate to have not had my 0:05:49.681 --> 0:05:53.121 grandparents yeah, well, I think. 0:05:53.001 --> 0:05:55.561 Probably because my dad had me quite late, so my 0:05:55.561 --> 0:05:57.841 grandparents were reasonably old. They were always sort of where 0:05:57.881 --> 0:06:00.361 some grandparents I mean, you know, they can be pretty 0:06:00.361 --> 0:06:01.481 youthful these days. 0:06:01.641 --> 0:06:05.001 That's right, yep, yeah, But you know there's also thing. 0:06:05.041 --> 0:06:07.001 It's like, you know, did your parents separate? How long 0:06:07.001 --> 0:06:08.921 did you have an at home parent for? You know, 0:06:10.521 --> 0:06:15.001 bilingual brains are much more resilient to know everything basically, 0:06:15.441 --> 0:06:17.641 So you have to weigh up all of those things. 0:06:17.721 --> 0:06:19.481 You know, what's there any trauma in your life? How 0:06:19.521 --> 0:06:21.961 many risk factors did you have? Are your parents or 0:06:22.001 --> 0:06:24.361 have they ever been to jail? How either your parents 0:06:24.401 --> 0:06:26.401 have a better foster care? Do you move a lot? 0:06:26.401 --> 0:06:29.361 And you know there's lots of risk factors, but resiliency 0:06:29.401 --> 0:06:32.161 factors are you know, like I say, having grandparents around. 0:06:32.361 --> 0:06:34.281 The longer you have an at home parent that you know, 0:06:34.281 --> 0:06:38.401 the more resilient you are. Country school can give you 0:06:38.521 --> 0:06:40.441 resilience because you have the same teacher for three or 0:06:40.481 --> 0:06:41.041 four years. 0:06:41.201 --> 0:06:43.081 It can give you resilience. 0:06:43.121 --> 0:06:45.841 Did you say, yeah, well, but assuming that the teacher 0:06:45.881 --> 0:06:48.401 is of reasonable quality, if the teacher's a teacher, than 0:06:48.441 --> 0:06:50.401 having them three years if someone you don't like and 0:06:50.441 --> 0:06:52.401 are scared of would obviously not be good. But the 0:06:52.481 --> 0:06:55.521 most teachers you aren't. So even an average teacher and 0:06:55.601 --> 0:06:58.281 three years forms a high quality relationship with you. And 0:06:58.881 --> 0:07:01.241 that's the number one factor that really determines how well 0:07:01.321 --> 0:07:04.281 kids do in school, not the parents' qualifications, or the ratio, 0:07:04.361 --> 0:07:06.601 or the teacher a starf or anything else we measure. The 0:07:06.681 --> 0:07:08.641 number one factor is the quality of the relationship with 0:07:08.721 --> 0:07:12.681 the teacher. So, you know, human beings, relationship creatures. So 0:07:13.001 --> 0:07:15.441 if you love your teacher and want to please them, 0:07:15.601 --> 0:07:17.681 you'll do so much better in education than if you're 0:07:17.681 --> 0:07:20.001 detached and they don't know you, and it's just an abstract, 0:07:20.401 --> 0:07:21.761 logical thing you're trying to do with your brother. 0:07:22.121 --> 0:07:23.841 We've covered on a few topics. I was just thinking 0:07:24.001 --> 0:07:26.841 maybe the way I'd ask that first question is the 0:07:26.881 --> 0:07:30.681 wrong way around them, because I had the idea because 0:07:30.761 --> 0:07:33.281 I can think of parents, you know, the question, are 0:07:33.281 --> 0:07:35.001 we making parenting harder than it needs to be? And 0:07:35.041 --> 0:07:38.561 I think maybe that's maybe an unfair way of asking 0:07:38.561 --> 0:07:40.361 that question. It's just because we can think of parents 0:07:40.401 --> 0:07:43.761 who always seem to be I don't know what on 0:07:44.001 --> 0:07:46.601 edge trying to try to manage. 0:07:46.201 --> 0:07:48.361 The section are worrying more than we need to? 0:07:49.161 --> 0:07:51.841 Well, I was thinking maybe the question is is that 0:07:52.881 --> 0:07:55.601 it's not are we making parenting harder than it needs 0:07:55.641 --> 0:07:58.641 to be, but as parenting actually just harder because there's 0:07:59.001 --> 0:08:01.161 those things you've outlined, like we've had COVID and the 0:08:01.241 --> 0:08:04.601 changes there social media. Sorry, you're right. Can you hear me? Yeah? 0:08:04.641 --> 0:08:06.081 Yeah I can. Sorry, can you hear me? 0:08:06.321 --> 0:08:10.321 Yep? So I guess maybe we should frame the question differently, 0:08:10.401 --> 0:08:13.201 is parenting Is parenting actually just harder these days? 0:08:14.001 --> 0:08:17.161 Yeah? I think it absolutely is just the fact that 0:08:17.201 --> 0:08:19.201 you don't have an parent anymore, so you've got two 0:08:19.201 --> 0:08:22.281 parents at work, and you don't have the grandparents. You know, 0:08:22.361 --> 0:08:24.961 my grandmother wasn't allowed to work, so there was you know, 0:08:24.961 --> 0:08:26.921 because there was just that generation where a granddad would 0:08:26.921 --> 0:08:29.481 at letter. We think that is sexist and outdated now, 0:08:29.481 --> 0:08:31.721 but it meant, you know that my parents had support 0:08:31.761 --> 0:08:33.841 and I had a full time grandmother, and so yeah, 0:08:33.881 --> 0:08:36.441 it is much harder for parents nowadays. Just both of 0:08:36.481 --> 0:08:38.081 them working makes it quite difficult. 0:08:38.401 --> 0:08:41.161 How much of a I mean, sometimes I try and 0:08:41.201 --> 0:08:43.201 keep away from the social media question because it seems 0:08:43.281 --> 0:08:45.121 pot to be popping up so often when it comes 0:08:45.161 --> 0:08:49.241 to peers. But that's a massive influence on kids, isn't it. 0:08:49.681 --> 0:08:51.841 Yeah, but it's not a good influence on their mental health. 0:08:51.881 --> 0:08:53.481 You know, we're starting to see more and more the 0:08:53.801 --> 0:08:56.241 evidence stacking up with just about how much damage it's doing, 0:08:56.801 --> 0:08:58.921 and so you know, you're starting to see countries respond 0:08:58.921 --> 0:09:01.121 to that by quitting on legislation and banning it and stuff, 0:09:01.121 --> 0:09:03.321 because it is clear that it is really doing a 0:09:03.321 --> 0:09:05.961 lot of damage to our kids' mental health. I guess 0:09:05.961 --> 0:09:08.721 that would mean at least the ban of kids having 0:09:08.761 --> 0:09:11.081 cell phones at school's not a bad using them at 0:09:11.121 --> 0:09:12.841 school and all. That's not a bad thing then, is it. 0:09:13.441 --> 0:09:13.681 Yeah. 0:09:13.801 --> 0:09:16.161 I mean that's probably when they're still going to use them, 0:09:16.201 --> 0:09:18.041 so they're probably still going to be exposed to those things, 0:09:18.041 --> 0:09:19.561 but at least their brain is getting a break from 0:09:19.601 --> 0:09:22.401 it if they're not allowed at school. So a good 0:09:22.441 --> 0:09:23.481 thing we. 0:09:23.441 --> 0:09:25.681 Want to hear from you. Do you think that parenting 0:09:25.881 --> 0:09:28.641 is harder than it used to be? Or you know? 0:09:29.121 --> 0:09:31.481 I mean, my question initially, as I started with, was 0:09:31.521 --> 0:09:33.361 are we making parenting harder than it needs to be? 0:09:33.441 --> 0:09:36.321 Which probably is a slightly mischievous question because it's inviting 0:09:36.321 --> 0:09:38.481 some sort of judgment, and I don't really if I 0:09:38.521 --> 0:09:41.241 was to be honest, mean it that way. But are 0:09:41.281 --> 0:09:45.001 there ways that parents can simplify things for themselves? I guess, Nathan, 0:09:46.721 --> 0:09:50.361 even though it's hard the social media and the cell 0:09:50.361 --> 0:09:52.881 phone thing always and I tell you, my kids are 0:09:52.961 --> 0:09:56.761 so great and negotiating you and I think that they're 0:09:56.761 --> 0:09:59.841 pretty well behaved, but even then they they make it 0:09:59.881 --> 0:10:03.241 hard to enforce those rules around phones and social media. 0:10:04.041 --> 0:10:06.321 Yeah, that's just the nature kids, really, isn't They're supposed 0:10:06.361 --> 0:10:09.961 to test your boundaries and nothing releases more endorphins into 0:10:09.961 --> 0:10:13.041 their brain than the screen. So of course that's the 0:10:13.041 --> 0:10:14.721 thing that they're going to want mainly, and they're going 0:10:14.761 --> 0:10:17.121 to fight back against restrictions. But I think, you know, 0:10:17.881 --> 0:10:20.041 you know, I always looked at the research for answers, 0:10:20.081 --> 0:10:23.281 not just identifying what the problem is, in the research 0:10:23.321 --> 0:10:25.281 that tells us how we can protect our kids from there, 0:10:25.441 --> 0:10:27.841 and there is quite clearly because kids that come from 0:10:27.841 --> 0:10:30.121 a home where there's two hours a day device free time, 0:10:30.481 --> 0:10:32.801 so no phones or cell phone or computer between four 0:10:32.841 --> 0:10:37.521 and six or something that really largely takes outside the 0:10:37.561 --> 0:10:41.081 at risk group for anxiety and depression statistically, So when 0:10:41.121 --> 0:10:43.361 schools are saying, no cell phone. If they have two 0:10:43.401 --> 0:10:46.161 hours consistent time, they're going to be on computers and stuff, though, 0:10:46.161 --> 0:10:47.921 So this needs to be two hours without media to 0:10:47.961 --> 0:10:50.641 actually give your brain a rest from screens for a solid, 0:10:50.681 --> 0:10:53.521 predictable two hours every day. With my kids, we used 0:10:53.561 --> 0:10:54.801 to do it four to six because that's when I 0:10:54.801 --> 0:10:56.841 was cooking tea and wanted them to help, and that's 0:10:56.881 --> 0:10:58.441 when you do a lot of the interaction, I suppose, 0:10:58.441 --> 0:11:01.161 and it's interaction that builds brains, not screens. So we 0:11:01.361 --> 0:11:03.641 do four to six. I negotiated it with the kids. 0:11:03.721 --> 0:11:05.561 You know, they tried to go for three am to 0:11:05.601 --> 0:11:07.641 five am, but it's like, no, you have to be 0:11:07.681 --> 0:11:14.361 awake when you don't have your device sex every day. 0:11:14.441 --> 0:11:16.401 And they worked well, and they did fight back for 0:11:16.441 --> 0:11:18.481 a start, but when I was consistent with it, and 0:11:18.521 --> 0:11:20.321 I also put my own cell phone down and didn't 0:11:20.321 --> 0:11:22.201 go on the computer at that time and modeled it, 0:11:22.521 --> 0:11:24.321 I soon got used to it as a routine. 0:11:24.561 --> 0:11:26.881 Do you think that's possibly There'd be a lot of 0:11:26.961 --> 0:11:29.481 parents listening here be going well, that's that's fine. That 0:11:29.561 --> 0:11:31.481 might have been ten or fifteen years ago or something, 0:11:31.481 --> 0:11:33.921 but now you know, kids homework, they come home with 0:11:33.961 --> 0:11:36.361 homework and most of them it's all it's all on 0:11:36.401 --> 0:11:36.881 a screen. 0:11:37.241 --> 0:11:40.361 Well, they're not homework from the time they get home 0:11:40.441 --> 0:11:42.201 until they go to bed, so there's still two hours 0:11:42.241 --> 0:11:44.121 and they'd have a device for a time. They also 0:11:44.321 --> 0:11:46.921 have to you know, they've usually got sports to play, 0:11:47.081 --> 0:11:49.921 or they've got you know, other activities they can do, 0:11:50.441 --> 0:11:52.521 and so they schedule them and that two hours. 0:11:52.921 --> 0:11:58.161 You know, where is the evidence that you find useful 0:11:58.161 --> 0:12:00.161 to roll out to parents, because you know, parents will 0:12:00.201 --> 0:12:02.481 power sometimes can be worn down by kids. It's like, 0:12:03.201 --> 0:12:06.481 well it's kids are well, kids of bloody convincing out. 0:12:06.521 --> 0:12:08.681 They their persuasive, their pain and all that, and then 0:12:08.681 --> 0:12:10.481 every now and again mum or dad will just go, okay, 0:12:10.481 --> 0:12:12.361 look have your phoned for a bit, but what is 0:12:12.401 --> 0:12:15.241 the latest as far as you know and what we 0:12:15.361 --> 0:12:17.281 know on the dangers of that. 0:12:18.801 --> 0:12:20.481 The danger is a lot. You know, I tend to 0:12:20.481 --> 0:12:23.281 look at the absence of like of parents. You know, 0:12:23.321 --> 0:12:25.041 when we look at Farnes, the access have got to 0:12:25.121 --> 0:12:28.281 social media and the content and that is warping their 0:12:28.441 --> 0:12:31.721 sense of reality. Because during adolescence it's very easy to 0:12:31.761 --> 0:12:34.321 warp that sense of reality. It's a very complex things 0:12:34.321 --> 0:12:36.161 from a brain point of view, because really, what you 0:12:36.201 --> 0:12:38.561 and I are seeing in front of us is actually 0:12:38.681 --> 0:12:42.441 a construction in our frontal cortex, you know, So it's 0:12:42.441 --> 0:12:45.401 easy for them to construct a false reality. That means, 0:12:45.481 --> 0:12:48.721 you know, in a broad example, the kids growing up 0:12:48.761 --> 0:12:51.921 watching pornography and thinking that that's how females actually respond. 0:12:52.721 --> 0:12:56.001 Then if they don't have a conversation with usually a 0:12:56.081 --> 0:12:58.561 parent or someone that just has to simply point out 0:12:58.601 --> 0:13:01.521 and develop that critical lens that says, you realize that 0:13:01.521 --> 0:13:04.521 that's not made. Women don't make that, and the women 0:13:04.601 --> 0:13:06.961 are made by men for men, with the women saying 0:13:06.961 --> 0:13:08.481 things and men are going to say and women don't, 0:13:09.521 --> 0:13:12.081 and that's not real intimacy. And as long as someone 0:13:12.081 --> 0:13:14.241 has that conversation with them, that seems to protect them 0:13:14.241 --> 0:13:16.521 from it. So you could argue it's not the social media, 0:13:16.601 --> 0:13:17.441 it's the lack of. 0:13:17.601 --> 0:13:19.601 The lack of lack of any other input. 0:13:20.121 --> 0:13:22.281 Yeah, a lack of developing that critical lends. Maybe because 0:13:22.281 --> 0:13:23.601 parents don't want to talk about it because it's an 0:13:23.641 --> 0:13:26.841 uncomfortable subject, but those are the sort of risks. They 0:13:26.881 --> 0:13:30.041 also compare themselves and believe other people's lives, so they 0:13:30.081 --> 0:13:32.201 think they're supposed to be having a life like Kim 0:13:32.241 --> 0:13:35.481 Kardashian and really believe that someone like is similar to 0:13:35.521 --> 0:13:37.961 that as happy all the time and always fulfilled and 0:13:38.601 --> 0:13:41.321 they get and that comparative thing is what has a 0:13:41.321 --> 0:13:43.241 been contributed to their anxiety and depression? 0:13:43.641 --> 0:13:46.161 Yeah, because not many be people post on Instagram. I'm 0:13:46.201 --> 0:13:48.561 sort of having an average sort of day. It's all. 0:13:48.601 --> 0:13:51.121 It's all that perfection, isn't It either that or it's 0:13:51.161 --> 0:13:54.321 intense grief. But there's no sort of there's no normal, 0:13:54.401 --> 0:13:54.801 is there? 0:13:55.561 --> 0:13:58.241 No, there isn't. There's a very little you know, just blah, 0:13:58.281 --> 0:14:00.481 this is how it is. Because people don't hear that. 0:14:01.081 --> 0:14:02.001 That's not very exciting. 0:14:03.161 --> 0:14:05.161 Okay, look, we want to take your cause on this. 0:14:05.281 --> 0:14:08.121 Eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Do you think I mean 0:14:08.321 --> 0:14:10.561 we've we've probably drifted away from my question a little bit, 0:14:10.561 --> 0:14:12.201 but I think in terms of trying to make parenting 0:14:12.241 --> 0:14:16.521 a little simpler, do you think there's a way of 0:14:16.521 --> 0:14:18.921 making things simpler in terms of just controlling your kids 0:14:18.961 --> 0:14:21.401 access to social media and all that sort of stuff, 0:14:21.401 --> 0:14:23.521 because it feels like the easy way out just to 0:14:23.601 --> 0:14:26.161 let them do whatever. But from my own point of view, 0:14:26.201 --> 0:14:28.761 it's definitely anything, but so we'll take your calls on 0:14:28.801 --> 0:14:32.281 this eight hundred eighty ten and eighty text nine to 0:14:32.841 --> 0:14:35.041 nine two. This is the Parents Squad, News Talks. He'd 0:14:35.041 --> 0:14:36.521 be eight hundred eight ten and eighty back in a 0:14:36.521 --> 0:14:40.401 mow and welcome back to the Parenting the Parents Squad. 0:14:40.401 --> 0:14:42.361 This is News Talks eight hundred eight ten and eighty. 0:14:42.481 --> 0:14:45.161 Simple question. Actually I've changed it since this we started, 0:14:45.161 --> 0:14:47.601 I said. My initial question that I thought we'd explore 0:14:47.681 --> 0:14:49.601 is are we making parenting harder than it used to be? 0:14:49.681 --> 0:14:52.041 But actually the simpler question is is it harder than 0:14:52.041 --> 0:14:53.521 it used to be? And if so, why and what 0:14:53.521 --> 0:14:56.081 can we do to make things a bit simpler. Let's 0:14:56.201 --> 0:15:00.321 go to Nathan Wallace's my guest by the way, and Karen, Hello. 0:15:01.281 --> 0:15:04.721 Oh goodness thing, great topic. I was fortunate enough to 0:15:06.001 --> 0:15:08.481 see Nathan Wallace and my babies were very young and 0:15:08.681 --> 0:15:11.721 took on board a lot of what he said. So 0:15:11.961 --> 0:15:13.401 thank you for your input. 0:15:14.481 --> 0:15:16.881 What made you go to see what? What did you say? 0:15:17.321 --> 0:15:20.401 What was Nathan talking about back when you saw him? 0:15:20.521 --> 0:15:23.841 Back then it was the first three years and brain 0:15:23.881 --> 0:15:28.321 development and attached parenting and being present with your child. 0:15:28.961 --> 0:15:33.361 And one of the questions I actually are well he 0:15:33.561 --> 0:15:34.761 was talking about back. 0:15:34.601 --> 0:15:37.881 Then was nothing with us now anyway, I've just got 0:15:38.001 --> 0:15:41.441 chick there, aren't you? Nathan. Absolutely, it was so quiet. 0:15:41.481 --> 0:15:42.401 I was like, where's he comb? 0:15:43.281 --> 0:15:46.521 Yeah, I job, thank you, but it obviously didn't come up. 0:15:48.121 --> 0:15:52.761 Yeah, just how how it takes for repetition to create 0:15:52.841 --> 0:15:56.281 neural pathways? Back then and at the time, my son 0:15:56.481 --> 0:16:01.521 was high tod so to speak, and he would drop 0:16:01.521 --> 0:16:03.521 his spone and I'd pick it up, and he would 0:16:03.561 --> 0:16:06.561 drop it and I'd pick it up. And I remember saying, 0:16:07.041 --> 0:16:11.081 how many times as this neural pathway going to take 0:16:11.201 --> 0:16:13.721 before it's created? And you set up to ninety seven 0:16:13.801 --> 0:16:17.161 but not necessarily all at the same time to get 0:16:17.401 --> 0:16:22.561 that action. So this releads into your question today, how 0:16:22.601 --> 0:16:27.081 hard is it to keep them off screen? Our kids 0:16:27.121 --> 0:16:29.881 went full fire into it when they got to high 0:16:29.921 --> 0:16:36.081 school because that was the norm, and they couldn't get 0:16:36.121 --> 0:16:39.641 away with it, not away with it, gets away from 0:16:39.681 --> 0:16:44.121 it because if you didn't partake in it, you were 0:16:44.201 --> 0:16:52.201 seen as an outsider and sorry that someone's being So 0:16:52.321 --> 0:16:55.521 they went really high on their dopamine hurts. And then 0:16:55.641 --> 0:16:59.441 now the backing off and I went to the teacher 0:16:59.521 --> 0:17:02.521 parent interview at one of the christ At schools and 0:17:02.521 --> 0:17:04.481 I won't say which one it is, and I went 0:17:04.561 --> 0:17:06.561 to the art teacher. I said, how are you finding 0:17:06.601 --> 0:17:10.441 these kids during art given that the brains are used 0:17:10.441 --> 0:17:13.041 to going at a higher speed and it's really hard 0:17:13.081 --> 0:17:18.361 for them to switch off to engage in something quite slow. 0:17:19.241 --> 0:17:22.081 And he says, you know what, he said, Did they 0:17:22.121 --> 0:17:24.281 get to that art class and they don't want to 0:17:24.361 --> 0:17:26.681 leave because they've had too much screen time? 0:17:28.641 --> 0:17:31.841 That sort of doesn't surprise me as much as you 0:17:31.921 --> 0:17:33.721 think it might. Actually, what do you you, Nathan? 0:17:36.121 --> 0:17:40.081 Yeah, No, I think the brain's also seeking variety and 0:17:40.121 --> 0:17:42.321 they kind of know that they don't have the option 0:17:42.441 --> 0:17:44.761 in art class and that's a bit easier for teachers 0:17:44.761 --> 0:17:47.001 and parents in that way that they can't argue their 0:17:47.001 --> 0:17:49.001 way out of that class. They are going to be 0:17:49.041 --> 0:17:50.881 doing art for an hour, so there's a level of 0:17:50.881 --> 0:17:53.241 acceptance which makes them engage a bit easier. 0:17:52.921 --> 0:17:55.481 To How did you deal with the whole device thing 0:17:55.521 --> 0:17:58.641 for your kids anyway, Karen once they got to high school. 0:17:59.521 --> 0:18:02.121 Well, I'll give you a really big reaction that it 0:18:02.241 --> 0:18:05.361 cares because I was really firm on it and tried 0:18:05.441 --> 0:18:11.241 to be very like those seventeen and fifteen at the moment, 0:18:11.641 --> 0:18:16.201 and my son was on screen, and I gave them 0:18:16.241 --> 0:18:18.841 like three or four warnings, I'm going to turn the 0:18:18.881 --> 0:18:22.161 endosne off. You need to get off, and he didn't, 0:18:22.361 --> 0:18:25.361 so I just turned it off. That The anger that 0:18:25.521 --> 0:18:30.601 came back at May was frightening. I've never done that before. 0:18:31.241 --> 0:18:33.161 I never had to put my foot down like that, 0:18:33.881 --> 0:18:39.201 but him losing their social connection in a peer group 0:18:40.001 --> 0:18:45.041 and having no control over there was really quite quite 0:18:45.081 --> 0:18:46.321 scary actually. 0:18:46.721 --> 0:18:48.961 Actually, Karen, I think what you've described there is the 0:18:49.001 --> 0:18:51.561 reason that so many parents will have a crack at 0:18:52.561 --> 0:18:55.081 getting their kids off the devices, but they often capitulate 0:18:55.161 --> 0:19:00.121 because they are They just don't want that, I don't know, 0:19:00.281 --> 0:19:04.161 different creature to suddenly appear. Is there something in that, Nathan, Yeah, 0:19:04.121 --> 0:19:04.881 absolutely there is. 0:19:05.081 --> 0:19:08.961 And the difference between punishment and consequence. There's no amount 0:19:08.961 --> 0:19:12.001 of punishment's good, but no one enjoys punishment. Punishment is 0:19:12.041 --> 0:19:15.521 just a low quality relationship, but consequence they absolutely need. 0:19:15.761 --> 0:19:19.081 So the difference between punishment and consequence is predictability. If 0:19:19.081 --> 0:19:20.881 I said to the child, you know, this is what's 0:19:20.921 --> 0:19:22.561 going to happen, and in another time when they're nice 0:19:22.561 --> 0:19:24.761 and calm that this is the process, and I'm going 0:19:24.801 --> 0:19:26.161