Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2: And welcome back to the One Roof Radio Show. I
Speaker 2: was just saying to my producer t I said, well,
Speaker 2: this music sucks, and She's like, this is exactly the
Speaker 2: question that the tune you asked for. And I was thinking,
Speaker 2: maybe it's not the version I'm thinking of, but yes,
Speaker 2: you're right. Who's got the power or whatever? Welcome back.
Speaker 2: I'm Tim Beverages. This is the One Roof Radio Show.
Speaker 2: By the way, if you missed our panel with Annibin's
Speaker 2: Francis and Pete wolf Camp, you can go and check
Speaker 2: out where you get your podcasts and which I suggest
Speaker 2: would be iHeartRadio. Just look for the Weekend Collective and
Speaker 2: the way you go. But right now, as I say
Speaker 2: it's One Roof Radio show, we have a new guest
Speaker 2: with us. He is the managing director of a Spire
Speaker 2: Property Management and his name is Mike Atkinson. And Mike,
Speaker 2: good afternoon. How are you doing good?
Speaker 3: Thank you happy to be here?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, well we'll find out in about an hour's time.
Speaker 2: Hey tell us how long have you been in the
Speaker 2: property management game.
Speaker 3: I've been running Aspire Property Management for twelve years, and
Speaker 3: I've been in property management overall for coming up to twenty.
Speaker 2: Now, what made you want to get into that.
Speaker 3: I was in London and I had no money left
Speaker 3: in my bank account and an ad in the gum
Speaker 3: tree and I did my first day in property management.
Speaker 3: I just loved it right away.
Speaker 2: What was it you loved about it so much?
Speaker 3: There's always something happening in property management, so you get
Speaker 3: to do quite a lot of relationship building, you get
Speaker 3: to go out to property. I do really like property.
Speaker 3: You're always on the move, always something happening, and you
Speaker 3: can make a difference in people's home life as well
Speaker 3: if you do a good job for them.
Speaker 2: Wow. We'll take into that a bit more in the moment.
Speaker 2: But if you've joined US, eight hundred and eighty ten
Speaker 2: eighty is the number you can text on nine two
Speaker 2: nine two, and we're going to into with the recent
Speaker 2: changes and tendency laws. You might remember that under the
Speaker 2: previous government they got rid of ninety day notice periods,
Speaker 2: which meant that it became very tricky to get rid
Speaker 2: of a lousy tenant. But now that they're back in
Speaker 2: one might argue that it is now easy for a
Speaker 2: bad landlord to get rid of a really good tenant
Speaker 2: and so it's hard to get the balance. But the
Speaker 2: question is, and we want your calls on this, do
Speaker 2: you think that it's that the government have made the
Speaker 2: right moves restoring the ninety day notice period, which basically
Speaker 2: means you don't have to have cause, you just have
Speaker 2: to say ninety days see you later. Do you think
Speaker 2: that that has been a shift towards restoring the balance
Speaker 2: to where you'd like it to be already think was
Speaker 2: a bad move. We want your calls on eight hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty ten to eighty. And of course, as we've
Speaker 2: briefly heard from Mike's experience in property management, you give
Speaker 2: him a call if you've got some questions as well
Speaker 2: you would like to get a bit of guidance on.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so just a little bit more about the
Speaker 2: London situation. How much different is London to New Zealand.
Speaker 3: Well, I was working in Body corporate then, okay, and
Speaker 3: yes it was a little bit different than the work
Speaker 3: that I'm doing now. But it was very interesting as well.
Speaker 2: Because what's the percentage of people in residential property who
Speaker 2: would rent? And I mean, if you're in London, it
Speaker 2: seemed that well, I didn't know anyone who owned just
Speaker 2: about No, it.
Speaker 3: Was pretty high. There was a big company over there
Speaker 3: called Foxton's who did a lot of that, and it
Speaker 3: was very dodgy over there, the rental management sector, and
Speaker 3: I experienced it as a tenant anyway.
Speaker 2: Were most people are a lot of tenancies over in London?
Speaker 2: Are they sort of just still managed by landlords who've
Speaker 2: got lodgers or they've got a spare room or a
Speaker 2: spare of flat downstairs. But I don't know how it works.
Speaker 3: I think it's a bit of a mix. They still
Speaker 3: have people managing them privately and a few established agencies
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay, tell us what was the problem that
Speaker 2: the government wanted to address when they brought back in
Speaker 2: the ninety day notice period.
Speaker 3: Well, the previous government bought in the you could only
Speaker 3: get rid of a tenant if that met a certain
Speaker 3: set of criteria, and I think they decided that was
Speaker 3: a little bit too rigid and the landlords had given
Speaker 3: up too much control. People wanted to be able to
Speaker 3: have the final say on who stayed and who went
Speaker 3: from a property that they owned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, how I did talk back on this all
Speaker 2: the time, and it did talk back on it quite
Speaker 2: a bit, and it seemed that one of the problems
Speaker 2: was that if you had really bad tenants sometimes it
Speaker 2: was quite hard to get rid of them because one
Speaker 2: you had to have neighbors who would give evidence, and
Speaker 2: it became quite a rigmarole. And yet now we have
Speaker 2: you know, you can give literally ninety days and somebody
Speaker 2: could be a fantastic tenant and you could have a
Speaker 2: landlord who's I don't know or to think that value
Speaker 2: having tenants right now anyway, But what are the ills
Speaker 2: that can come around simply by this system.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it's given the landlords quite
Speaker 3: a lot of power. So if you have a good
Speaker 3: tenant and a bad landlord, that landlord can say, you
Speaker 3: know what, let's just get rid of that person, and
Speaker 3: it can make them have to move house, which is
Speaker 3: a big undertaking, as we all know. So the new
Speaker 3: legislation does have a retael notice stageboard into it. So
Speaker 3: if you are a landlord and you issue a ninety
Speaker 3: day notice and it is partly or wholly motivated by
Speaker 3: a tenant having tried to exercise their rights, So for example,
Speaker 3: a tenant saying, hey, the dishwash is broken.
Speaker 2: No, you can't come around your notice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they just say, you know what, I
Speaker 3: don't want to deal with you. Here's your ninety day notice. Well,
Speaker 3: the tenant has twenty eight days to apply to the
Speaker 3: tribunal to have the notice thrown out. Then they have
Speaker 3: if they don't use it in the twenty eight days,
Speaker 3: they've got up to a year to take the landlord
Speaker 3: to the tribunal to seek to rule that that was
Speaker 3: an unlawful notice. And if it's unlawful, it can be
Speaker 3: up to six thousand, two hundred dollars fine for the landlord.
Speaker 3: So they haven't gone back to the previous rules of
Speaker 3: ninety days. Okay, they've added one extra layer in there
Speaker 3: to protect tenants as well.
Speaker 2: That does sound like quite a good layer. Where does
Speaker 2: it sit for you? I guess you're dealing with this
Speaker 2: all the time. I would have actually, I would guess
Speaker 2: as a property manager, because you are acting for landlords
Speaker 2: and looking after tenants and so you're interfacing. But I
Speaker 2: guess you are the landlord's representatives, aren't you. So I
Speaker 2: would have thought you'd like the restoration of the ninety
Speaker 2: day period because it is because you guys aren't just
Speaker 2: about turfing people out for fun. You like to have
Speaker 2: people in properties, except the lousy ones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean it's the same for a landlord
Speaker 3: as well. If you ever do exercise your right to
Speaker 3: use this ninety day notice, you are going to be
Speaker 3: incurring quite a bit of cost. As a landlord. Your
Speaker 3: property is probably going to be vacant for three weeks
Speaker 3: because of your relationship's broken down so much with your
Speaker 3: tenant that you give a ninety day notice, you're probably
Speaker 3: not going to get viewings done there until after they leave.
Speaker 3: You're going to pay your property manager a leading feet,
Speaker 3: so they're still only going to be used in extreme circumstances.
Speaker 3: It's not good business to get rid of tenants. When
Speaker 3: you're a landlord, you don't get much rent without a tenant.
Speaker 2: And actually, how as just while we're on that, how
Speaker 2: is the sort of letting landscape in terms of the
Speaker 2: balance between supply and demand.
Speaker 3: Well, so at the moment, the ballot is definitely in
Speaker 3: favor of the tenants. Around about June last year we
Speaker 3: had five thousand, five hundred rental listings in Auckland. By
Speaker 3: December it was up to six thousand, seven hundred and
Speaker 3: now it is only just returning to five thousand, five
Speaker 3: hundred levels now. So whenever there's over six thousand listings,
Speaker 3: it feels like there's more.
Speaker 2: Property in New Zealand or Auckland.
Speaker 3: Auckland, sorry, yep. When there's more than six thousand, it
Speaker 3: feels like there's not enough good tenants for the properties.
Speaker 3: So it's like musical chairs and all of a sudden
Speaker 3: it's around the other way. Instead of having people dying
Speaker 3: to rent your property, you're actually struggling to find them.
Speaker 3: So the market at the moment favors tenants, so they've
Speaker 3: got an upper hand in that area in Auckland at
Speaker 3: the moment.
Speaker 2: How much pressure is there on landlords therefore too, I
Speaker 2: mean people reducing their their rents or are they making
Speaker 2: their properties more appealing instead, or what are they doing?
Speaker 3: Well, if you've got a property that's really well looked
Speaker 3: after and you know actually it's quite attractive to tenants,
Speaker 3: you'll still be doing okay. When you've got a sort
Speaker 3: of bull market, so to speak, Your even your bad
Speaker 3: properties are going to get rented. But when as soon
Speaker 3: as the market turns, which it has, if you've got
Speaker 3: a property where you haven't invested in repairs and maintenance,
Speaker 3: you'll be the last last property to go. So yeah,
Speaker 3: people are dropping their rents, and you know, we're encouraging
Speaker 3: our owners to use professional photos, get some painting done,
Speaker 3: do something to make your properties stand out at the moment. Otherwise,
Speaker 3: you know, it might be sitting online for four weeks plus.
Speaker 2: And that Actually it's funny because when you think four
Speaker 2: weeks so it's been empty for a few weeks, it
Speaker 2: sounds like such a casual sort of comment to throw away,
Speaker 2: But that can actually be quite a lot of rent
Speaker 2: that you'd really count on, especially if you've got the
Speaker 2: you know, you haven't managed to bring your mortgage right
Speaker 2: down yet.
Speaker 3: Or yeah, and then you normally would have to pay
Speaker 3: your property manager one week's rent plus GST letting fee,
Speaker 3: plus advertising costs and things like that. New tenant will
Speaker 3: normally ask for some repairs and maintenance to be done.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it can get expensive for landlords leaving your
Speaker 3: properties empty at the moment.
Speaker 2: Now I'm just trying to think, I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: maybe do you like the way the law is at
Speaker 2: the moment with ninety day period, if you were designing it,
Speaker 2: if Mike Atkinson was designing the law around getting rid
Speaker 2: of lousy tenants and keeping good ones and protecting tenants
Speaker 2: at the same time. Is the legislation so ninety days?
Speaker 2: But if it's vexatious or vindictive, I, as a tenant,
Speaker 2: could say, hang on the man, I'm going to the
Speaker 2: tennis tribunal because you're being to.
Speaker 3: Give you a really good answer. I'd need to see
Speaker 3: how this actually plays out by testing it, Because is
Speaker 3: the tribunal going to say that if the tenant has
Speaker 3: mentioned one thing about the grasp being not cut in
Speaker 3: the right amount of time, does that throw out the
Speaker 3: ninety day notice? How strict are they going to be?
Speaker 3: But under the old law there was still quite good
Speaker 3: avenues available to get rid of problem tenants. And I
Speaker 3: did like the idea that people were able to know
Speaker 3: that they weren't going to get kicked out of their houses.
Speaker 2: I guess there is one thing that you can do
Speaker 2: which so convinced that is to sign a fixed term tenancy.
Speaker 2: Isn't it there is? I mean, do we seem of that?
Speaker 3: We About five years ago I tried to convince tenants
Speaker 3: to sign up for three year two year fixed term tenancies.
Speaker 3: I couldn't get anyone to agree to sign up for
Speaker 3: longer than twelve months. It just seems like, for some reason,
Speaker 3: it's just bedded into the culture here that you sign
Speaker 3: a twelve month fixed term tendency. Is that?
Speaker 2: What are we commitment fobes? I don't know what it is,
Speaker 2: but you might want to go to Australia. Oh, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure. Things don't feel great. I don't want to
Speaker 2: time a south down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that so that is a way if you're
Speaker 3: a tenant and you want to have some security of
Speaker 3: tenure is approach your property manager or your landlord and
Speaker 3: ask for extension. If you're on a periodic tendancy, you
Speaker 3: can sign a new extension anyway. So you know that
Speaker 3: gives you a bit of security around your property.
Speaker 2: So how on, So what do you think of the law?
Speaker 2: Would you would you tweak what we've got at the
Speaker 2: moment still allowing notice? And it's actually we should point
Speaker 2: out I'm going back on my you know, I studied
Speaker 2: property law about thirty years ago or something, so I
Speaker 2: can't remember too much about it, but maybe not quite
Speaker 2: that long ago. But you can still give notice, say
Speaker 2: for if you are a landlord and you have to
Speaker 2: move back into the property yourself. That is still a
Speaker 2: legitimate cause and always has been, hasn't it. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: has always been, and that just shortweeks notice, doesn't They've
Speaker 2: shortened them down to forty two now to give a
Speaker 2: little bit less time. Okay.
Speaker 3: At the same time, they've also now tenants only have
Speaker 3: to give twenty one days notice if they want to
Speaker 3: leave a periodic tendency.
Speaker 2: So would you go with the law as it was
Speaker 2: or as it is now, or with some sort of
Speaker 2: subtle change because we're going to play around. It's fun
Speaker 2: to play around with these things, and no one's going
Speaker 2: to quote you.
Speaker 3: I would say the old law, with a bit more
Speaker 3: action from the tenancy tribunal not making it so impossible
Speaker 3: to prove that a tenant is antisocial, would probably have
Speaker 3: been a better system. But the tendancy tribunal lags behind.
Speaker 3: And I'm also not sure how the tenancy tribunal is
Speaker 3: going to interpret the new changes.
Speaker 2: Do you guys have a lot of mean I'm guessing
Speaker 2: this is a dumb question, but do you have a
Speaker 2: lot of involvement with the tendency tribunal?
Speaker 3: We do, Yes, We go probably once every two week.
Speaker 3: A lot of the times it's just unpaid rent, but
Speaker 3: it can be any sort of dispute these days. Who
Speaker 3: should pay for cockroaches? Who should pay for.
Speaker 2: Sounds like rare. It's some sort of dodge you take away, John, Yeah, Actually,
Speaker 2: what's that mean?
Speaker 3: What a man?
Speaker 2: Who should pay for cockroaches? What is it? What is it?
Speaker 2: Even that question? What's that?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 3: You can have Let's say a tenant's been in the
Speaker 3: property for two years and then all of a sudden
Speaker 3: there's just a lot of cockroaches in the property. It
Speaker 3: can be once you've been in for about two years,
Speaker 3: it's normally assumed that you, as the tenant, has probably
Speaker 3: allowed this cockroach infestation to come in. But if the
Speaker 3: property has only been you know, if you only moved
Speaker 3: in for a couple of months, that was probably there
Speaker 3: when you moved in. And so then you get a
Speaker 3: two hundred dollar bill for getting rid of the cockroaches.
Speaker 3: Landlord doesn't want to pay, tenant doesn't want to pay,
Speaker 3: and off to the tribune.
Speaker 2: Or you go, wow, I never knew that that was
Speaker 2: who's paying for the cockroaches? We'll say that these are
Speaker 2: the big topics that well, I looked seriously though, if
Speaker 2: you've got a few cup I mean, what does the
Speaker 2: bad cockroach infestation look like?
Speaker 3: Well, it depends if they're German cockroach. For a native.
Speaker 2: It sounds slightly munty. Pythony asked, But look, we want
Speaker 2: to take your cause. If you do you think that
Speaker 2: the government was right to bring the back in the
Speaker 2: notice period. Look my gut reaction, but I'm not I'm
Speaker 2: not a landlord or a tenant. Fortunately that if I
Speaker 2: had a bad tenant, I wouldn't want to have basically,
Speaker 2: wouldn't want to have to go near the tenancy tribunal
Speaker 2: because it just sounds like one big house or so
Speaker 2: I'd be like, I'd want to just give them notice.
Speaker 2: But of course, if you're an unscrupulous landlord, there are
Speaker 2: lots of good people who can be in the way
Speaker 2: of that. So what do you reckon? Do you think
Speaker 2: the government have got it right or would you like
Speaker 2: to see the ninety days scrapped and go back to
Speaker 2: the former system Maybe weether slightly more effective tenancy tribunal.
Speaker 2: And the number is eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 2: Text is nine two nine two. My guest is a
Speaker 2: new guest on the Wonderrouf radio shows Mike Atkinson from
Speaker 2: a SPA Property Management. We'll be back in just a moment.
Speaker 2: It's twenty past four. Yes, welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 2: There's a one roof radio show where with Mike Atkinsoni's
Speaker 2: managing director Aspire Property Management. Actually, just how do people
Speaker 2: get in touch with your company? Mike, Hang on a second,
Speaker 2: I'll just turn your microphone on. There we go.
Speaker 3: They can go to our website Aspire Property dot co
Speaker 3: dot nz and they can get in touch with us
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 2: I imagine it's if they just Google your company as well.
Speaker 2: Google'srett effective at getting you as one of the top hits,
Speaker 2: isn't it. It is Aspire Property Management, right. I'm still
Speaker 2: hung up on this German versus casual cockroach sort of
Speaker 2: thing before we but we'll dig into that in a moment.
Speaker 2: Let's go to Ivan.
Speaker 4: Good a, Yeah, good, good afternoon.
Speaker 5: I just wanted to ask the guys. You guys built
Speaker 5: a brand new town here. It's not doubt for rental,
Speaker 5: right had I had tenants and I haven't managed and
Speaker 5: anyhow I thought they were doing a good job managing it,
Speaker 5: but obviously they weren't the fight after three and a
Speaker 5: half four years, I actually had a went inside the
Speaker 5: place to have a look and and the property. They
Speaker 5: had fans poured all over the carpet and from here
Speaker 5: and there. It was a terrible mess. They had animal
Speaker 5: damage to the carpet. They had they demaged the garage door.
Speaker 5: They had broken the spouting with a camper van. We
Speaker 5: went up against it and that, and they had.
Speaker 2: Fat right, right, it sounds pretty bad.
Speaker 5: Fat on the oven, right, And I had the electrician bowling,
Speaker 5: but it was a fire hairs. I had to replace it.
Speaker 5: I took him in to have a look at it.
Speaker 5: And anyhow, the whole ones I went to the private uni, right, yep,
Speaker 5: we're with ye, And the tribeian just sat there and
Speaker 5: smiled at me. All right, yeah, And they said care
Speaker 5: you and can you prove that this was intentional damage
Speaker 5: by the tenant. I just know what I could proved
Speaker 5: an intention or she intentionally did it, all right? Of
Speaker 5: course they said, well you've got to claim insurance. So
Speaker 5: insurance each time they spuilt the old tina on the
Speaker 5: on the carpet, that was a separate claim. And there
Speaker 5: was a live the place, so everyone was a seam
Speaker 5: or there was an excess of seven of them, so
Speaker 5: you know it was I saw it as being really unfit.
Speaker 5: Now was that more still in place?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, thanks thanks Ivan, Mike, what do you what
Speaker 2: do you reckon?
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing when we were talking about who
Speaker 3: has the power overall, is that at the moment because
Speaker 3: of that ninety day noticed, landlords have the power, but
Speaker 3: throughout the sort of life cycle of a tenant, and
Speaker 3: what this caller was discussing is an example of where
Speaker 3: the tenants have the power and when it comes to
Speaker 3: dispute resolution if you go to the tenancy tribunal. That
Speaker 3: caller's story is incredibly common for people where you have
Speaker 3: a tenant and they let the property go really downhill,
Speaker 3: and you go to the tribunal and they treat you
Speaker 3: like you're the bad guy and you are awarded next
Speaker 3: to nowhere towards your cost.
Speaker 2: Well, why does that happen? Because my understanding that intentional
Speaker 2: damage is also to do negligence is another thing as well.
Speaker 2: If you are deliberately leaving things uncleaned and well we
Speaker 2: get to the cockrate just then, don't we.
Speaker 3: But anyway, yeah, so careless and intentional is supposed to
Speaker 3: be paid by the tenant, But if the landlord has insurance,
Speaker 3: then they can claim the excess or the rent up
Speaker 3: to four weeks rent, whichever is lower. But then your
Speaker 3: insurance company will do as this caller said, and every
Speaker 3: drop on the carpet is one extra excess.
Speaker 2: Well that's pretty obnoxious, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So in an example like that, if you've had
Speaker 3: a property manager looking after the property for four years
Speaker 3: and it's been one tenant and it's gotten to four
Speaker 3: years where you've finally seen the property, I would recommend
Speaker 3: that you go and review the routine inspection reports that
Speaker 3: you've been sent and have a look to see if
Speaker 3: this happened quickly. Was the property manager doing their job,
Speaker 3: because you go to the tenancy tribunal to hold the
Speaker 3: tenant to account. But if you have a property manager
Speaker 3: and they've been charging you twenty seven hundred dollars a
Speaker 3: year to manage the property and they haven't been doing
Speaker 3: the job, then you may have a claim against the
Speaker 3: property manager.
Speaker 2: Ah, the problem is litigation. I mean, for the most
Speaker 2: I think that's why I still prefer the notice thing
Speaker 2: because for most people busy live big responsibilities with owning
Speaker 2: property or and just our general lives. The idea of
Speaker 2: having to go to a tribunal would probably I mean,
Speaker 2: this is the argument why you'd have a property manager, really,
Speaker 2: isn't it. Yeah. I know you're not here to spruk
Speaker 2: for that necessarily, but look, to be honest, every expert
Speaker 2: who's involved with property we've had on this show who
Speaker 2: are investors, they say, unless you are prepared to give
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of your time to managing your and
Speaker 2: you know what you're doing, you should give it to
Speaker 2: a property manager in the first place, which would obviously
Speaker 2: be your stance as well.
Speaker 3: Yes, but when you are choosing a property manager, you
Speaker 3: do need to do some due diligence about which manager
Speaker 3: you're choosing to make sure that the person that you're
Speaker 3: trusting to look after the property is going to do
Speaker 3: a good job as well.
Speaker 2: Is there a lesson or something that you can advise
Speaker 2: on with regard to insurance policies as well, Because if
Speaker 2: you're going to get someone who said, look, you know,
Speaker 2: oka your coffee table's being damaged by hot plates being
Speaker 2: on it, that's one claim, then this claim than that claim.
Speaker 2: Before you know, you've got how many thousands of bucks
Speaker 2: in excess. Just about can you get policies which cover
Speaker 2: the event being the crappy tenant?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can always take I'd recommend that people
Speaker 3: take tenancy or landlord insurance as well, so that's on
Speaker 3: top of your normal insurance. So that will give you
Speaker 3: cover when the tenant doesn't pay the rent and you
Speaker 3: get left significantly out of pocket. And then when you're
Speaker 3: choosing your insurance policy, obviously the premiums are lower when
Speaker 3: you have a higher excess. When you have a really
Speaker 3: high excess, and they say excess for every event, you're
Speaker 3: actually you don't have insurance because the excess is just
Speaker 3: so high.
Speaker 2: Do you know much it costs for that sort of
Speaker 2: extra insurance? Because of course, you know, owning, buying an
Speaker 2: investment properties expensive, You've got your mortgage and you've got
Speaker 2: your normal insurance. Is that another cost that would frighten
Speaker 2: people off? What is it reasonable?
Speaker 3: It's about three hundred and fifty dollars per year to
Speaker 3: get this sort of tendency insurance.
Speaker 2: I love the suspense I felt there when you said
Speaker 2: it's about three hundred and fifty dollars per and I
Speaker 2: was like, drum roll, please, per year. Yeah sounds too good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's very reasonable and it gives you quite
Speaker 3: a bit of cover and some methan fitamine protection and
Speaker 3: stuff as well.
Speaker 2: Bloody brilliant. Okay, that does sound good. Look, before we
Speaker 2: go to our next caller, just a couple of texts here,
Speaker 2: High Zib can you ask Mike, my wife and I
Speaker 2: have a tenant who won't mow the lawn, put the rubbishout,
Speaker 2: or pay rent on time. As soon as we give
Speaker 2: a ten day notice, he sorts the issues out. We
Speaker 2: just served the eleventh ten day notice in fifteen months.
Speaker 2: Is there a way we can give notice to leave? Well,
Speaker 2: I think we know the answer to that, don't we.
Speaker 3: They can, but also it's a fourteen day notice, not
Speaker 3: a ten day notice, so they won't want to be
Speaker 3: relying on those anytime soon.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe they're thinking ten business data.
Speaker 3: Yeah, true, true, Yeah, so you can give those. They
Speaker 3: can just use the ninety day notice provided it's a
Speaker 3: periodic tendancy. But if you are issuing, if it's a
Speaker 3: fixed term tenancy and you're issuing repeated fourteen day notices
Speaker 3: for the same infringement, you can apply to the tenancy
Speaker 3: tribunal only cost twenty two dollars and you can go
Speaker 3: along and try to get the tenancy ended that way.
Speaker 2: And how quickly would that end.
Speaker 3: It depends on where you are in the country. The
Speaker 3: tribunal process, just getting your date in front of the
Speaker 3: adjudicator can take up to sort of six weeks.
Speaker 2: Funny. It's funny because it sounds with tenancies and I
Speaker 2: know it's not sort of like district court and it's
Speaker 2: supposed to be accessible and stuff. But the only thing
Speaker 2: I can I always remind myself as well, is that
Speaker 2: the consequences for anyone who falls afoul of the tenancy
Speaker 2: tribunal is having to either find a new tenant or
Speaker 2: find a new home. Quite big stuff, really, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It is, So that's why they can't streamline it too
Speaker 3: much because some of the issues they deal with are
Speaker 3: quite important. But they know sixty five percent of tribunal
Speaker 3: applications in twenty twenty three were landlords just seeking unpaid rent.
Speaker 3: So I think they need to stop doing those in
Speaker 3: person and start doing those over the phone, and that
Speaker 3: will free them up have more time to deal with
Speaker 3: the more complicated matters.
Speaker 2: Some question, do all property managers charge the same, are
Speaker 2: they generally?
Speaker 3: That twenty two dollar fee was just what the government charge.
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking in terms of if you've got a
Speaker 2: property manager, is there a standard sort of charge or
Speaker 2: some some more equal than others.
Speaker 3: Ranges from sort of six point five percent up to
Speaker 3: sort of nine percent, depending on where you are in
Speaker 3: the country. The lower the average rent in your area,
Speaker 3: the higher the management fee percentages typically.
Speaker 2: Oh, because of the work that goes into.
Speaker 3: Yeah, about the same. I mean, you've got to be
Speaker 3: renumerated through the percentage model. There are some people that
Speaker 3: do flat rate fees.
Speaker 2: That's why you said. If you're paying your property manager,
Speaker 2: say two six hundred dollars a year, that's taken into accounts,
Speaker 2: so you're going to be paying it in a cheap market,
Speaker 2: but it'll be a high percentage because simply the work
Speaker 2: is still the same.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's about the average rate that people will charge.
Speaker 2: Across the country. Okay, there we go. Right, let's take
Speaker 2: some more calls Gary High.
Speaker 4: Hello, how are you good?
Speaker 2: Thanks?
Speaker 4: We have a property in another part of the country.
Speaker 4: Not going to go into too many details, easy enough
Speaker 4: to fly back and forth from there. Currently, the property
Speaker 4: managers in the last eighteen months have been inspecting in
Speaker 4: On every inspection, they're pretty much coming back with things
Speaker 4: to do which aren't critical, but in a couple of
Speaker 4: times because we have an excess on it, saying spend
Speaker 4: up to five hundred and then send us the bill,
Speaker 4: and they seem to like to do that almost every time.
Speaker 4: So we're thinking of dropping them and just flying there
Speaker 4: ourselves and doing our inspections and doing the maintenance off
Speaker 4: our own back, because I think we can say that
Speaker 4: ourselves up to two thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Are you seeking? Are you seeking some confirmation that this
Speaker 2: could be a good move or some or some warning
Speaker 2: or some warning.
Speaker 4: Never hold you to anything just during the fat Okay, what.
Speaker 2: Are your thoughts on that, Mike?
Speaker 3: What happens when your tenant moves out and you need
Speaker 3: to find a new tenant.
Speaker 4: We would have to do that ourselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean that's my That would be a
Speaker 3: reservations if you have to fly down and do it.
Speaker 3: It's actually not as hard to manage the ongoing process remotely,
Speaker 3: but when you need to go to the property and
Speaker 3: do things like that, you know it's not it's not
Speaker 3: impossible to do it and there are resources online to
Speaker 3: help you if I was, if I sell my business
Speaker 3: and still have my rental properties, I won't be managing
Speaker 3: my own properties. I think it's I think it's it's
Speaker 3: hard to do, and I would rather spend my time
Speaker 3: focusing on another endeavor.
Speaker 2: I guess Garry, the question would be, is your ten
Speaker 2: because some some landlords have a feeling for the fact
Speaker 2: that their tenant's going to be there for a long time,
Speaker 2: and then other times it wouldn't acclue. Do you have
Speaker 2: any level of confidence that.
Speaker 4: You are comfortable tenant is the will stay there?
Speaker 2: Yes, well, that's okay. How far do you have to fly?
Speaker 2: It's not it's not Auckland Queenstown because that expensive.
Speaker 4: I don't want to comment because that might drop me
Speaker 4: in it. So it's it's the flights are regular and reasonable. Okay,
Speaker 4: we've done with funds on saving money? Yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 4: that's sort of where it's sat.
Speaker 2: How often would you be looking to go down and
Speaker 2: inspect it.
Speaker 4: Every three months or four months, every quarter? What what
Speaker 4: purses text deductible in regard to doing it ourselves.
Speaker 2: I would have thought I would have thought all of it,
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be? I mean, this is tax advice. But Mike,
Speaker 2: if you are flying down somewhere simply to do a
Speaker 2: property expection, I would say.
Speaker 3: That's I I'm definitely not a tax accountant, but I
Speaker 3: would say that does sound like it potentially could be.
Speaker 4: So it'll be with forming like a limited liability company
Speaker 4: or something silly like that to look after one property,
Speaker 4: or you know.
Speaker 2: What, if you can afford to. Here's Mike. Would be
Speaker 2: my non binding suggestion, Gary, I reckon you should spend.
Speaker 2: You should spend. You keep your property manager on just
Speaker 2: for a little bit longer and use that money you're
Speaker 2: saving to get a little bit of advice from an
Speaker 2: accountant and then go from there. And then that'll help
Speaker 2: you because you might find that that little three month
Speaker 2: trip down to that wonderful destination can double as a
Speaker 2: holiday while completely text.
Speaker 4: You know where it is. When you said that, well.
Speaker 2: You know, don't get paranoid about it. It could just
Speaker 2: be like a years anyway. Okay, good on you, Gary,
Speaker 2: good luck. I guess if they know what the rules are,
Speaker 2: if they've got a good tenant, he sounds like he's
Speaker 2: I'll fill in the few gaps just with their imagination.
Speaker 2: But it sounds like he knows the tenant, he's confident
Speaker 2: they're staying for a while. So far, so good. If
Speaker 2: he's got a property manager who he's not happy with,
Speaker 2: he probably could manage it for himself.
Speaker 3: I think he actually should have a go at managing
Speaker 3: it himself. There is some people can do it, and
Speaker 3: that's and it's fine. And then as a property manager myself,
Speaker 3: the best customers are the people that have tried to
Speaker 3: manage it themselves and have given up.
Speaker 2: Is that because they alive.
Speaker 3: Because then they actually really value what you do, because
Speaker 3: they've tried it themselves and realize that it's not that easy.
Speaker 2: That is a very good point. Look, we're going to
Speaker 2: take a moment now. You can give us a call
Speaker 2: if you've got any questions. We've got lots of texts
Speaker 2: which we'll deal with as well as many as we
Speaker 2: can get through. But if you want to jump the queue,
Speaker 2: the number is eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Don't forget.
Speaker 2: We did actually throw that question about as to whether
Speaker 2: the government's got it right with bringing back the ninety
Speaker 2: day change, with the ability of a tenant to appeal
Speaker 2: it for a lousy landlord. If I can sum that
Speaker 2: up that crudely, but it's twenty three minutes to five
Speaker 2: news talks, he'd be that's welcome back to the weekend collective.
Speaker 2: This is the wonder if radio shan tin beverage. My
Speaker 2: guest is from a SPA property management. He's the boss there.
Speaker 2: It's Mike Atkinson taking your calls around. Well, any problems
Speaker 2: you've got to do with property management as well. By
Speaker 2: the way, fun fact because Mike mentioned the charming idea
Speaker 2: of the German cockroaches who apparently lay eggs that's every
Speaker 2: six days, and we just had a bit of a
Speaker 2: laugh about just the idea. There's German cockroaches Asian cockroaches,
Speaker 2: and I googled them and it says unlike they said,
Speaker 2: they don't fly as easily as the ones in Australia.
Speaker 2: And I remember going to Australia and thinking what the
Speaker 2: hell was that that just flew past them. They're like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's a cockroach what they fly anyway, Apparently German cckroaches
Speaker 2: aren't so flashy there. Let's take some more calls. Kelly, Hello, Hi.
Speaker 6: I just want to talk about property management. We have
Speaker 6: a home and income and so I took it upon
Speaker 6: myself to do the property manager because it's you know,
Speaker 6: they're going to be living on the same property as yourself.
Speaker 6: So I didn't want to, you know, to discimonount to anyone.
Speaker 6: But I tell you what, the nutters that apply for
Speaker 6: rental property and I live in Auckland.
Speaker 2: That apply for.
Speaker 6: These rental properties, I must take my hat off to
Speaker 6: your property managers because there are so many interesting people
Speaker 6: that apply for these things, and I just you know,
Speaker 6: I absolutely value having a property manager. But for me,
Speaker 6: I had to do it because I had to actually
Speaker 6: select these people to move it on to our property.
Speaker 6: But you know, like there's some very slim picking and
Speaker 6: you know, certainly when they are living on the same
Speaker 6: property and you've got to actually deal with them, it's
Speaker 6: pretty difficult. So I value to my property managers and
Speaker 6: I would always do it because it's you know, land
Speaker 6: you have to deal you know, the foohoo stories or
Speaker 6: anything like that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, thank you JS Kelly. Actually I think
Speaker 2: Kelly's highlighted. Can you actually if you want to manage
Speaker 2: your own property, can you still engage a property manager
Speaker 2: for a fee to find a tenant for you? Or
Speaker 2: is that a bit you know.
Speaker 3: Yes, you can still do that. It's called a casual
Speaker 3: letter arrangement and normally costs about one week's rent plus GST.
Speaker 2: That seems pretty reasonable, but I guess I would only
Speaker 2: be worried to be like, hang on a minute, they
Speaker 2: can find a tenant, and then they're not what they
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about that tenant, are they? What's
Speaker 2: the sort of what's the peace of mind that you're
Speaker 2: still going to get a really well vetted person.
Speaker 3: Well, you'd like that person to come back and use
Speaker 3: you again. A lot of agencies are actually stopping doing
Speaker 3: the casual letting because of what happens when it gets
Speaker 3: past to the private landlord is actually more likely to
Speaker 3: come back.
Speaker 2: Because they don't manage their relationship well enough. And then
Speaker 2: they say this is allowsy tenant, when maybe it was
Speaker 2: because they were allows.
Speaker 3: The or the tenant might have their rights trampled on,
Speaker 3: and then they look at their tenancy agreement and it's
Speaker 3: got aspired property management in the top right corner of
Speaker 3: the letterhead, and so they come back to you. So
Speaker 3: it can be we we do casual leading for clients
Speaker 3: that we've got a relationship with, but we're still happy
Speaker 3: to take on new ones as well.
Speaker 2: Cool. Okay, let's take some more calls Andrew High.
Speaker 7: Yeah, hi there, I guess it's coming back to the
Speaker 7: question that you just had. As the property manager surprise,
Speaker 7: ultimately surprise or provides us with a tenant that doesn't
Speaker 7: really well, let's be Frank Wrex the house and causes
Speaker 7: a huge mess. Who's liable?
Speaker 3: Well, that would depend if the property manager has done
Speaker 3: their due diligence on the tenant and then provided the
Speaker 3: application done that.
Speaker 7: Yes, you have done the due diligence done yep.
Speaker 3: Next, Yeah, So then that basically that liability would then
Speaker 3: fall back onto the property owner because they're effectively the
Speaker 3: person getting the reward in exchange for the risk. And
Speaker 3: then you could try to claim that back from the tenant,
Speaker 3: but you wouldn't be able to claim anything back from
Speaker 3: the property management company.
Speaker 2: Okay, hey, thanks for your call, Andrew. Now let's have
Speaker 2: a look at a few more texts. There should be
Speaker 2: a two somebody said there should be a two tier
Speaker 2: tenancy notice period, a short notice for provable bad behavior
Speaker 2: and a period exceeding three months for other exceeding three
Speaker 2: months for other reasons. It's a huge sometimes crushing disruption
Speaker 2: in people's lives to have to move out and find
Speaker 2: new accommodation. I mean that is the problem, isn't it
Speaker 2: just casually saying well, you've got ninety days see you later.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I agree ninety days can potentially be a
Speaker 3: bit short. But under the Act, there's actually a landlord
Speaker 3: can give you twenty one day's notice when a fixed
Speaker 3: term is ending, and that's a lot less time in
Speaker 3: terms of being able to give shorten notice periods for
Speaker 3: provable bad behavior. Who the only way to prove it
Speaker 3: is to go to the tribunal, and that'll take you
Speaker 3: longer than ninety days.
Speaker 2: Another word, person says you seem to be forgetting that
Speaker 2: it costs time and money to get what. I don't
Speaker 2: think we have forgotten this, but it says it costs
Speaker 2: caught time and money to get tenants. So just randomly
Speaker 2: getting rid of tenants is not in a landlord's interests,
Speaker 2: I would insert, is not in a good landlord's interests.
Speaker 2: But why even a bad loan, it's not in their
Speaker 2: interests except a ballmarket maybe where they can just get
Speaker 2: the next you sucker.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and that is actually something that I mentioned
Speaker 3: earlier is that a landlord is only going to use
Speaker 3: this in a circumstance where they feel like it's warranted
Speaker 3: because they are going to incur vacancy costs. And even
Speaker 3: without vacancy costs, you get a new tenant to move
Speaker 3: in the next day, it isn't worth doing unless you
Speaker 3: have a valid reason. So you're not going to get
Speaker 3: no cause where you just move a tenant out because
Speaker 3: you woke up and felt like doing it.
Speaker 2: No, Hay Tim. We are an elderly couple who own
Speaker 2: a one bedroom apartment as an investment property. In December,
Speaker 2: we renewed the rental for a further one year fixed term.
Speaker 2: Things have taken a sudden turn on our health front
Speaker 2: and we need to sell as soon as possible to
Speaker 2: remove into a retirement village. How can we get out
Speaker 2: of this if the one year fixed term tenancy that
Speaker 2: we signed in December, the new term actually starts mid March.
Speaker 2: That's from Gerada.
Speaker 3: You can sell a property with a fixed term tenancy
Speaker 3: in place, So a one bedroom apartment could be of
Speaker 3: value to someone with a tenant in it if they're
Speaker 3: not planning on living in it themselves.
Speaker 2: Oh. Actually, in fact, that could be a selling point.
Speaker 3: Yes, that you turned a tenant paying rent.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: The other option is any fixed term tenancy or extension
Speaker 3: can be ended by mutual agreement. So if you find
Speaker 3: another property across the street that looks the same and
Speaker 3: you tell your tenant, hey, this is our situation. We'll
Speaker 3: give you two thousand dollars if you move to the
Speaker 3: property next door that I've found for you, and then
Speaker 3: if they agree, then the tenancy the extension can end
Speaker 3: and you can sell it vacant.
Speaker 2: I think also that what you've just touched on there
Speaker 2: is that genuinely most people are good people. If I
Speaker 2: was a tenant and the landlords were having health problems
Speaker 2: and I knew that, you know, things weren't looking good,
Speaker 2: I think I'd probably say, look, if you need to sell,
Speaker 2: pay my moving fees and I'll let you out of it.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, that would be the first place to start,
Speaker 3: would be to have an open conversation with your tenant
Speaker 3: and see what sort of solution that you can come
Speaker 3: up with.
Speaker 2: How often do you find that people are surprise you
Speaker 2: with being reasonably decent. Are you in the sort of
Speaker 2: area at society where you do have to deal with
Speaker 2: quite a lot of tough stuff.
Speaker 3: I think that the majority of tenants, the majority of
Speaker 3: property owners are all really decent people that just are
Speaker 3: trying to get by with their lives. There is the
Speaker 3: sort of bad apples on both sides that can sort
Speaker 3: of spoil the reputation for everyone. So I think overall
Speaker 3: they're all pretty decent and it's just a few bad
Speaker 3: apples in there.
Speaker 2: Okay, And there's another one here. Hey, can you ask
Speaker 2: what the maximum number of properties that property managers can
Speaker 2: manage in their portfolio? My experience is property managers are good,
Speaker 2: but my for property management companies do the minimum and
Speaker 2: are not always I'm not sure if they're okay, and
Speaker 2: are not always proactive to perform rent reviews on time
Speaker 2: within a one year period sixty day period. So obviously
Speaker 2: they think that their property managers but slack. So how
Speaker 2: many properties can one individual reason realistically manage?
Speaker 3: Well, that's where it's like a really good question. When
Speaker 3: landlords are looking for a property manager and you see
Speaker 3: a property management company offering lower fees, they will often
Speaker 3: have their property managers managing more properties in order to
Speaker 3: be able to make the numbers stack up. So you're
Speaker 3: going to get slightly less service if you go with
Speaker 3: a five percent property management company. I think anywhere from
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty to one hundred and forty if
Speaker 3: you've got someone doing the lettings with them. Some companies
Speaker 3: manage one hundred and sixty plus. It's really it does
Speaker 3: depend on how much of the work for a property
Speaker 3: manager the property manager actually does. We have people that
Speaker 3: do lettings as well. We have a lot of automations
Speaker 3: that we use, and then our property managers average about
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty, so we're still on the lower
Speaker 3: end even with all of our automations and things like that.
Speaker 2: Actually, automation, imagine does AI play a role in your industry?
Speaker 3: It definitely does. And it's about too because you know,
Speaker 3: if you can implement a chatbot that can talk to
Speaker 3: the tenants and ask answer the questions, and the same
Speaker 3: with the landlords, it's going to play a massive part
Speaker 3: in property management.
Speaker 2: Maybe you'll be able to just send your drone to say,
Speaker 2: go and have a look around this place. Yeah, just
Speaker 2: leave your windows open, tenant.
Speaker 3: Yeah no. I mean, it's a very interesting time coming up,
Speaker 3: and there's already there's already inspection reports you can do
Speaker 3: with AI helping you write all the notes and things
Speaker 3: like that. But now, yeah, I mean that's that's a massive.
Speaker 2: That's for another day.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, Hey, look we're going to take a quick moment,
Speaker 2: come back with the one roof Property of the week
Speaker 2: is next. It's ten to five news Talk sed B.
Speaker 1: The one roof Property of the week on the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 2: Yes, and the one roof Property of the week. I
Speaker 2: always as I always do so it's like taking a holiday,
Speaker 2: but this one really is like taking a holiday. It's
Speaker 2: a spectacular the coastal views it's in. I'm just scrolling
Speaker 2: back to trying to get out of the photo so
Speaker 2: I can actually see the address here. That's right. It
Speaker 2: is one forty c Rodney Road in Lee in Rodney,
Speaker 2: and I don't actually I might even hand it over
Speaker 2: to you might to describe the property. What do you
Speaker 2: make of it? Six bedrooms, three bathrooms, three garage, three
Speaker 2: car garage and four hundred and three square meters Go, oh,
Speaker 2: hang on a second, there we go, there's the button.
Speaker 3: It is a stunning property with amazing sea views. It
Speaker 3: would sort of be fit for a Bond villain. I think,
Speaker 3: just absolutely amazing. You forget that properties like that even
Speaker 3: exist in New Zee are.
Speaker 2: What are the things that attract you to a property
Speaker 2: if you're looking around something, Because the okay, the views, views,
Speaker 2: views are great. I love a good view. But the
Speaker 2: thing that got me I just I love a nicely
Speaker 2: tiled bathroom. But you know what I mean, there's been
Speaker 2: things which can turn you off. It's like, oh I
Speaker 2: don't like that, and bang you're out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you for me? It's going in swimming pool.
Speaker 2: Ah yeah, the swimming pool. It's got that infinity pool. Look,
Speaker 2: here's the thing. I love this. The RV. I'm going
Speaker 2: to get you excited if you're in a reasonably prosperous situation.
Speaker 2: The RV is two point eight million dollars. Now I'm
Speaker 2: going to disappoint you that you need to be in
Speaker 2: a much more prosperous situation because the estimate ranges from
Speaker 2: four point nine million to five point eight with an
Speaker 2: estimate of five point three million. But your breathtaking views
Speaker 2: above Parkery Beach, and it's also got seventeen acres of
Speaker 2: this is probably the other bit that did it for me.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how often you'd go for a walk
Speaker 2: in your own gardens. But it's got seventeen acres of
Speaker 2: private curated bushwalks with cascading waterfalls. It's got glow worms
Speaker 2: if you're lucky enough to spot them, which means doesn't
Speaker 2: really have blow woms if you're lucky enough to spot them.
Speaker 2: And yet it's quite stunning. So go and have a look.
Speaker 2: One forty c Rodney Road, Lee and Rodney Sex bedrooms,
Speaker 2: so you've got plenty of room for your guests when
Speaker 2: they come. Actually, the other thing I do, Mike is
Speaker 2: do you imagine what your leisure activity would be? Because
Speaker 2: for me, I see the terrace and the pool and
Speaker 2: I just think friends sitting out in the barbecue sizzling.
Speaker 2: That's what I think. What do you reckon?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm definitely interested in that waterfall, having your own waterfall.
Speaker 3: I think you've really made it.
Speaker 2: I got to own waterfall and that's not just the
Speaker 2: bath overflowing. Hey Mike, by the way, thank you, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for coming and I hope we can
Speaker 2: get you back again sometime.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: And if people want to check out your work, they
Speaker 2: can either just google Aspire Property Management or.
Speaker 3: Website Aspire Property dot cod or n.
Speaker 2: Z excellent, great stuff and thank you for you. Sorry
Speaker 2: we didn't get to answer all the text, but we'll
Speaker 2: get on to it well. Obviously I hope to have
Speaker 2: Mike back and we'll do it again next time. Up
Speaker 2: next it is the Parents Squad and Google Sutherlands with us.
Speaker 2: Do you have to treat your kids the same each
Speaker 2: given that they might be quite different? When do you
Speaker 2: treat them differently? Is that a OK? We'll be taking
Speaker 2: your calls and discussing that with Google Sutherland. Next for
Speaker 2: the Parent Squad, it's coming up to three minutes to five.
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
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