WEBVTT - Rugby Direct Episode 250: Mo'unga recalled as All Blacks finalise first test plans 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:11.973 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B. 0:00:12.373 --> 0:00:16.133 Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio, 0:00:19.253 --> 0:00:29.693 straight down the middle of try try to get inside 0:00:29.733 --> 0:00:33.413 the game from every end goal. It's Rugby Direct with 0:00:33.573 --> 0:00:37.053 Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks ed B. 0:00:37.453 --> 0:00:40.773 Welcome into Rugby Direct, howared by Fourklip Solutions, lifting you 0:00:40.813 --> 0:00:44.653 and your business to a higher level. The tour, It 0:00:44.733 --> 0:00:49.093 moves on, We roll on and now in Johannesburg, oh 0:00:49.173 --> 0:00:53.133 Ye Smith with me, Liam Napier, Liam shadow boxing, but 0:00:53.213 --> 0:00:56.693 the shadow boxing from a All Blacks perspective will most 0:00:56.773 --> 0:00:59.813 complete one more tour game before the Tests start against 0:00:59.853 --> 0:01:04.093 the Bulls. But we thought it might happen. It has happened. 0:01:04.613 --> 0:01:09.493 Richie Muwonga will join Rugby's greatest rivalry Tour. Not a 0:01:09.533 --> 0:01:13.013 surprise he's coming over, although they've taken a few days 0:01:13.053 --> 0:01:15.173 to work out that he was the guy that wanted 0:01:15.213 --> 0:01:17.933 to replace Billy Proctor. They left it into after the 0:01:17.933 --> 0:01:21.613 Sharks game, which will touch on shortly your thoughts on 0:01:22.133 --> 0:01:25.133 the fact that Richie Moonger is jordan Us All Blacks Tour. 0:01:26.053 --> 0:01:30.853 They took their time, didn't they thoughts might happen more swiftly, 0:01:31.133 --> 0:01:36.533 maybe a day or two earlier, but it has happened, 0:01:36.693 --> 0:01:39.773 and it was probably always gonna happen at some point 0:01:40.293 --> 0:01:44.253 this tour. You can argue whether the All Blacks need 0:01:44.333 --> 0:01:48.333 five playmakers. They probably don't, but Dave Rennie always wanted 0:01:48.413 --> 0:01:51.213 Rich mu Wonger involved from the outset of this Test season, 0:01:51.253 --> 0:01:55.373 from the outset of this tour. He is gonna be 0:01:55.373 --> 0:01:58.573 a big part of the longer term World Cup picture, 0:01:59.933 --> 0:02:03.093 and so it's not a surprise that he's here. 0:02:03.173 --> 0:02:06.173 Is No, it's not, and it always felt likely as 0:02:06.173 --> 0:02:08.333 soon as Billy Proctor's ruled out that he was probably 0:02:08.333 --> 0:02:11.093 probably the guy that left that decision into after the 0:02:11.133 --> 0:02:13.933 Sharks game to see if there were any other injuries. 0:02:14.013 --> 0:02:17.253 Damien McKenzie twisted his ankle but by all accounts is 0:02:17.253 --> 0:02:21.413 going to be completely fine for next week. But they 0:02:21.493 --> 0:02:27.213 decided that this was the right option to take. Interesting though, 0:02:27.293 --> 0:02:30.813 because they've now decided that Rico Yuanne can play midfield 0:02:31.253 --> 0:02:33.413 despite being listed as an outside back. Obviously, we've seen 0:02:33.493 --> 0:02:36.613 Rico Yuanne play plenty of midfield before, and Nadawa was 0:02:36.653 --> 0:02:39.973 mentioned as a player that can slide into midfield as needed. 0:02:40.093 --> 0:02:43.973 But this is about getting him into the All Black system, 0:02:44.133 --> 0:02:46.293 isn't it, And not so much necessarily a game time, 0:02:46.333 --> 0:02:49.053 although that will happen and sounds like you'll play at 0:02:49.133 --> 0:02:52.053 least some role against the Lions. But this is about 0:02:52.093 --> 0:02:54.573 getting him into the All Blacks and they found a 0:02:54.573 --> 0:02:55.213 way to do it. 0:02:55.693 --> 0:02:58.133 Yeah, that's right. Look, the only reason he's not here 0:02:58.333 --> 0:03:01.493 is because he signed an eighteen month contract as opposed 0:03:01.533 --> 0:03:05.133 to a two year contract, and that forced them to 0:03:05.173 --> 0:03:08.773 go back and play provincial rugby and stay. Rennie was 0:03:08.813 --> 0:03:10.653 always going to use the avenue of an injury to 0:03:10.693 --> 0:03:14.173 try and bring him over at some stage. New Zell 0:03:14.213 --> 0:03:17.373 and robiev Board have granted their approval, So look, the 0:03:17.413 --> 0:03:20.493 band aid's being ripped off, and I think that's good 0:03:20.533 --> 0:03:22.933 for all involved, because otherwise there'd be so much speculation 0:03:23.013 --> 0:03:27.133 throughout this tour. What you have now is a delicate 0:03:27.733 --> 0:03:31.293 situation for Rennie to manage, and to this point, I 0:03:31.293 --> 0:03:33.813 think he's dealt with it really well. We had a 0:03:33.813 --> 0:03:36.693 press conference with him today and he shared the fact 0:03:36.733 --> 0:03:41.133 that he got his four playmakers for Tens together and 0:03:41.293 --> 0:03:43.533 talked to them prior to even telling Rich and Wog 0:03:43.573 --> 0:03:46.533 he was coming over. Very transparent about the fact that 0:03:47.893 --> 0:03:50.373 he is your black coaching, he's the best players involved. 0:03:51.413 --> 0:03:54.493 He also was very open about the fact that Wang 0:03:54.653 --> 0:03:59.373 coming over after these three tour games, that he won't 0:03:59.373 --> 0:04:01.853 be involved in the first Test. But it is a 0:04:01.893 --> 0:04:07.573 delicate dynamic because the selection picture has shifted. I think 0:04:07.733 --> 0:04:11.493 this season with on the basis of Ruben Love's form, 0:04:12.053 --> 0:04:14.853 Dave Rennie has thrown him the keys, he's given him 0:04:14.893 --> 0:04:18.733 the confidence. He's backed him, and Love has repaid that faith. 0:04:18.853 --> 0:04:22.453 And look, he's not the finished product, but there's a 0:04:22.453 --> 0:04:24.613 lot to like about the way he's gone about his work, 0:04:24.693 --> 0:04:28.093 his vision. He's great under the high ball, he's good 0:04:28.093 --> 0:04:32.133 on defense. He's very confident and assured in what he's doing. 0:04:33.973 --> 0:04:36.693 But beyond that first test, as you say, Muong a 0:04:36.773 --> 0:04:40.013 wall Reny, basically he's told us today he will be 0:04:40.053 --> 0:04:43.053 involved in the Lions game between the first and second Tests, 0:04:43.373 --> 0:04:45.893 and then beyond that, everything has to be earned for everyone. 0:04:46.093 --> 0:04:50.333 So the pressure does ratchet up a notch on Love 0:04:50.413 --> 0:04:55.333 to maintain that jersey and to continue to perform. 0:04:55.053 --> 0:04:57.653 As it should be. There should be pressure on him. 0:04:58.653 --> 0:05:01.773 There's a delicate balance when you've got full playmakers already 0:05:01.813 --> 0:05:05.813 that you've prescribed as tens, and you know Josh Jacomb 0:05:05.853 --> 0:05:07.693 is going to get a start this week against the Balls. 0:05:07.733 --> 0:05:10.573 He's the the young player that they've looked down and gone. 0:05:10.573 --> 0:05:13.413 He's the next in line from the younger cropper players. 0:05:14.453 --> 0:05:17.813 McKenzie's played close to one hundred ish tests I think 0:05:17.853 --> 0:05:20.813 from memory around about eighty eighty on from from off 0:05:20.853 --> 0:05:23.173 the top of my head, Boden Barretts play one hundred 0:05:23.173 --> 0:05:27.453 and forty four. These are experienced players, but it is 0:05:27.493 --> 0:05:31.173 a delicate balance to get. You know, every player's got 0:05:31.333 --> 0:05:33.373 a perspective of where they should be sitting in the play, 0:05:33.453 --> 0:05:36.533 in the picking order and everything like that. So I 0:05:36.613 --> 0:05:38.773 think it's the right call from Dave Renny to get 0:05:38.813 --> 0:05:41.333 the four together and go this is what's happening. He's 0:05:41.373 --> 0:05:45.813 coming in. But case of iron sharpens iron, I think, 0:05:45.853 --> 0:05:50.173 and you get Richie Muangaran adds in to the brain's 0:05:50.173 --> 0:05:52.653 trust of the all Blacks tens. I spoke with Josh 0:05:52.733 --> 0:05:56.533 Jacob today who was very effusive and says he, you know, 0:05:56.813 --> 0:05:58.493 by the end of the tour, basically Richie's going to 0:05:58.533 --> 0:05:59.773 be stick of the side of them because he's looking 0:05:59.773 --> 0:06:02.533 forward to picking his brain so much about what he 0:06:02.573 --> 0:06:05.933 sees in the game. So if that's the perspective they take, 0:06:06.613 --> 0:06:08.973 then I think it can only be a good thing. 0:06:09.133 --> 0:06:12.013 But it will be awkward at some point now that 0:06:12.093 --> 0:06:14.413 Richie Wonge is back or about to be back in 0:06:14.413 --> 0:06:16.453 a matter of a day or so in the All 0:06:16.453 --> 0:06:20.613 Blacks environment, because they're going to carry forty four obviously 0:06:20.653 --> 0:06:23.613 for the Ruggby's Greatest Rivalry, but they're going to drop 0:06:23.613 --> 0:06:27.813 a few for the back past Baltimore and then you 0:06:27.813 --> 0:06:31.413 look at the Bledterslow Cup and the end of Year Tour. 0:06:32.013 --> 0:06:34.853 There are some big calls to be made soon by 0:06:34.973 --> 0:06:37.413 Dave Rennie. So as soon as he arrives, it's a 0:06:37.493 --> 0:06:39.533 chance for every player is basically going to have to 0:06:39.533 --> 0:06:40.613 be on their best. 0:06:41.093 --> 0:06:44.213 Yeah. Absolutely, Look, I think Rennie's dealt with it initially, 0:06:44.213 --> 0:06:46.253 but it's just a start yep, isn't it. And there's 0:06:46.293 --> 0:06:49.693 going to be many difficult conversations to be heads. But 0:06:49.773 --> 0:06:52.653 I do like how he's front footed it. He could 0:06:52.693 --> 0:06:55.133 have just selected him and left it as a bit 0:06:55.173 --> 0:06:58.533 of an elephant in the room, and then the impact 0:06:58.533 --> 0:07:03.373 comes through selection and you start to unravel and destabilize 0:07:03.533 --> 0:07:06.893 the culture that you've built. So to meet it head on. 0:07:07.053 --> 0:07:11.293 To be transparents upfront is really important, and that wasn't 0:07:11.293 --> 0:07:15.373 one of the strengths of Razor's regime, and his public 0:07:15.373 --> 0:07:20.053 messaging all the time about wanting to get Muwanga involved 0:07:20.093 --> 0:07:22.973 and bring him home was not a great message to 0:07:23.013 --> 0:07:25.853 send to the tens in that environment at the time. 0:07:25.893 --> 0:07:28.293 So it does a real contrast and how that's been 0:07:28.333 --> 0:07:32.493 dealt with internally in particular, and then Renney's messaging publicly 0:07:33.333 --> 0:07:35.133 I thought was really good again today as well. 0:07:35.213 --> 0:07:37.053 Well, yeah, to lift the curtain a bit, and maybe 0:07:37.053 --> 0:07:38.893 people might have seen her on YouTube or watched the 0:07:38.933 --> 0:07:42.733 media conference themselves, But basically Dave Rennie said, let's let's 0:07:42.773 --> 0:07:44.533 talk about Richie Wonger first and then we can move 0:07:44.573 --> 0:07:46.453 on to the game. So there's probably five six minutes 0:07:46.493 --> 0:07:49.533 worth of Richie Wonger related questions and moved into the game. 0:07:49.653 --> 0:07:53.893 So confront a head on. Let's not go around the issue, 0:07:53.933 --> 0:07:57.093 let's go straight into the heart of it and talk 0:07:57.133 --> 0:07:57.533 about it. 0:07:57.853 --> 0:08:00.333 The next question is what do you expect from Wonga? 0:08:00.693 --> 0:08:04.333 So he's come back from Japan. Three seasons in Japan, 0:08:04.773 --> 0:08:07.973 and while Japan's an improving domestic competition, I would probably 0:08:08.053 --> 0:08:11.413 rate it fourth fifth best domestic comp in the world, 0:08:11.453 --> 0:08:15.453 and so whether it's Super Rugby or English Premiership, it's 0:08:15.453 --> 0:08:19.893 there's still a big, massive gap between those competitions and 0:08:19.933 --> 0:08:22.813 the Test arena. Wong hasn't played Test rugby. 0:08:22.653 --> 0:08:25.733 For since the World Cup final in twenty three, so it's. 0:08:25.613 --> 0:08:28.173 A long time he's come back. He said, two games 0:08:28.173 --> 0:08:30.493 of provincial rugby. I haven't seen those, but the reports 0:08:30.493 --> 0:08:35.813 I've seen, even from Kanteb said, you know, not quite 0:08:36.213 --> 0:08:40.893 the muang of old. It's early days, but historically players 0:08:40.893 --> 0:08:43.133 coming back from Japan need time to find their feet 0:08:43.173 --> 0:08:46.813 to regain their best form. So he's not going to 0:08:46.893 --> 0:08:50.133 come back and be this immediate savior either, you know. 0:08:50.653 --> 0:08:53.893 So what what what? What? What are your expectations for 0:08:54.333 --> 0:08:56.933 Wanga coming back into this orblock environment. Is he just 0:08:56.973 --> 0:08:58.053 going to hit the ground running? 0:08:58.373 --> 0:09:01.413 Well, I don' not meant it's going to depend how 0:09:01.413 --> 0:09:03.413 the first and Test goes because he obviously not play that. 0:09:03.493 --> 0:09:05.213 But I'm not sure the All Blacks need a savior 0:09:05.613 --> 0:09:08.573 per se. And the ideal scenario is that Mounga can 0:09:08.613 --> 0:09:10.773 work his way back in with a Lions game and 0:09:10.853 --> 0:09:14.893 maybe he plays a Test match third Test says, whatever 0:09:14.933 --> 0:09:17.613 it might be and begins to find his feet again 0:09:17.733 --> 0:09:22.413 at test level. But you know, he's a player built 0:09:22.413 --> 0:09:25.013 for the big occasion. You know, you think about how 0:09:25.053 --> 0:09:28.213 many titles he's won. You know, the World Cup has 0:09:28.213 --> 0:09:31.933 obviously eluded him a couple of times now for the 0:09:31.933 --> 0:09:34.413 All Blacks. But I think he can quickly get back 0:09:34.453 --> 0:09:38.653 to the standard that's expected of him. But still have 0:09:38.733 --> 0:09:40.733 Ruben Love. Is that the first choice in You know, 0:09:40.813 --> 0:09:43.533 I don't think Wong has made a compelling enough case 0:09:43.613 --> 0:09:46.613 at the NPC level or previously to go. He's better 0:09:46.853 --> 0:09:48.893 than the guy that's you know, steered the All Blacks 0:09:49.293 --> 0:09:51.693 through the first three tests of the year and will 0:09:51.733 --> 0:09:54.733 do so for the opening tests against the spring Box. 0:09:54.733 --> 0:09:56.453 But what you wanted to see is that he's now 0:09:56.453 --> 0:10:00.413 putting pressure on Rubin Love, and on Bowden Barrett, and 0:10:00.453 --> 0:10:03.053 on Damian McKinsey, albeit McKenzie is now perhaps few as 0:10:03.053 --> 0:10:05.093 more of a fifteen, and on Josh Jacob as well, 0:10:06.013 --> 0:10:09.653 so that that decision is really tough for Dave Runny 0:10:09.853 --> 0:10:12.413 to go. Actually, I thought we were going to go 0:10:12.493 --> 0:10:15.893 with X y Z for Test three, but Moong has 0:10:15.933 --> 0:10:17.893 come in and hit the ground running, and maybe he 0:10:17.973 --> 0:10:20.733 is the guy that can come off the bench or 0:10:20.773 --> 0:10:25.733 play play a role there. So expectations. Look, I think 0:10:26.653 --> 0:10:31.933 he knows test rugby Richard Morgan, and i'd suspect that 0:10:31.973 --> 0:10:35.493 he will get some test experience before this tour is 0:10:35.533 --> 0:10:38.813 out again. And you know, Anton Lenet Brown, for example, 0:10:38.893 --> 0:10:42.133 has come out of Japan, had a little bit of 0:10:42.133 --> 0:10:44.893 test rugby in that July window. But I've been impressed 0:10:44.933 --> 0:10:47.693 with what Anton Lenet Brown has done from that stint 0:10:47.693 --> 0:10:50.493 in Japan. He's been direct, he's been really running some 0:10:50.613 --> 0:10:53.453 nice lines with ball in hand. I thought he was 0:10:53.493 --> 0:10:56.453 one of the All Blacks best against the Stormers. So 0:10:57.493 --> 0:11:00.373 maybe you know you can come back from Japan and 0:11:00.453 --> 0:11:03.173 slot it into a test environment or all Blacks environment. 0:11:03.493 --> 0:11:06.573 Yeah, I think your point there about easing back into 0:11:06.613 --> 0:11:10.133 it and not been a start in Central figure straight 0:11:10.133 --> 0:11:11.653 off the bat in that sense. On Lena Brown, he 0:11:11.693 --> 0:11:14.973 hasn't been starting, and I agree he has been good, 0:11:15.693 --> 0:11:18.293 but he's been allowed to maybe find his feet a 0:11:18.293 --> 0:11:21.653 little bit. And I would probably argue that Artie Severe 0:11:22.053 --> 0:11:25.573 wasn't at his best in July. You could perhaps attribute 0:11:25.613 --> 0:11:27.693 that to playing in Japan, but he's also been on 0:11:27.733 --> 0:11:30.333 the rugby treadmill for eighteen months, so now, no doubt 0:11:30.373 --> 0:11:32.613 this break will benefit him. So there's a lot of 0:11:32.693 --> 0:11:34.853 dynamics that go into a mix about whether a player 0:11:34.893 --> 0:11:35.973 is at the peak of his form. 0:11:36.133 --> 0:11:38.613 Yeah, there is. And the other thing that I would 0:11:38.653 --> 0:11:42.533 say as well is that they've got too many first 0:11:42.533 --> 0:11:44.413 fives now. But in a way that is a good 0:11:44.453 --> 0:11:46.533 thing because there's no pressure on one going to have 0:11:46.613 --> 0:11:48.973 to be up to speed and ready to jump in 0:11:49.053 --> 0:11:51.293 for the first or second test because there are so 0:11:51.373 --> 0:11:53.813 many injuries that he's got to slot in. I think 0:11:53.893 --> 0:11:56.893 the fact he's coming now, there'll be three of the 0:11:56.893 --> 0:11:59.693 two games will have gone by the time he gets here, 0:11:59.773 --> 0:12:04.613 so you know, the test lineup is set that you 0:12:04.653 --> 0:12:07.253 don't have to come in and fill a hole straight away. 0:12:07.293 --> 0:12:09.213 You can sort of chip away in the background and 0:12:10.093 --> 0:12:12.333 do that rather than have to add something into the 0:12:12.373 --> 0:12:15.093 mixed straight away. So I think that also does play 0:12:15.133 --> 0:12:17.733 a role, and perhaps that's also been part of the thinking, 0:12:17.773 --> 0:12:20.653 is that we don't need an extra first five. But 0:12:20.733 --> 0:12:23.213 if we're going to bring an extra player in, maybe 0:12:23.213 --> 0:12:24.893 you look at a player that is going to, over 0:12:24.933 --> 0:12:26.653 the next few weeks be able to build into a 0:12:27.213 --> 0:12:28.013 test level player. 0:12:28.253 --> 0:12:31.413 Yeah, you want them involved. He has been a world 0:12:31.413 --> 0:12:35.853 class figure. While he hasn't won a World Cup, I 0:12:35.853 --> 0:12:40.133 think he was exceptional in the quarter final against Ireland 0:12:40.293 --> 0:12:43.253 that victory and has had some great performances for the 0:12:43.293 --> 0:12:45.653 All Blacks when he was given the keys. You know, 0:12:45.693 --> 0:12:49.053 you think back to twenty nineteen and him and Boden 0:12:49.093 --> 0:12:51.613 Barrett falling over each other a week, but that dynamic 0:12:51.653 --> 0:12:54.293 didn't really work, so it took the All Blacks a 0:12:54.293 --> 0:12:56.893 long time to actually be like, okay, Richie's our guy, 0:12:57.413 --> 0:12:59.013 and I think that's when we saw the best of 0:12:59.093 --> 0:13:00.013 him at that level. 0:13:01.493 --> 0:13:03.413 And sorry, sorry to jump over here, but the Black 0:13:03.453 --> 0:13:07.933 site using that double playmaker ten fifteen anymore either, you know, McKenzie. 0:13:07.653 --> 0:13:09.933 They are, but Kens is very content to play that 0:13:10.133 --> 0:13:11.293 second receiver. 0:13:11.253 --> 0:13:14.333 And Jordi Barrett's been pop again to alleviate some of 0:13:14.373 --> 0:13:16.653 the pressure off. So it's more of a ten twelve 0:13:17.133 --> 0:13:20.973 traditional ish double playmaker than a ten to fifteen, which 0:13:20.973 --> 0:13:23.373 I think will help because you're right in twenty nineteen 0:13:23.413 --> 0:13:24.373 they're falling over each other. 0:13:24.893 --> 0:13:30.813 And while Muhanga and the Tens a natural spotlight flash points, 0:13:31.653 --> 0:13:37.053 competition within any environment, within any elite professional sporting environment 0:13:37.333 --> 0:13:39.973 should be a good thing. Like you say, Iron sharper zion. 0:13:40.453 --> 0:13:45.453 It should push players to reach new heights and look, 0:13:45.493 --> 0:13:48.773 competition is even in another position. Look at the loose forwards. 0:13:48.893 --> 0:13:53.893 They absolutely stacked Locke. Yeah, so it's not confined, but 0:13:54.013 --> 0:13:57.693 it's just the fact that this Richie Muwonga debates eligibility 0:13:59.813 --> 0:14:02.493 shadow has been hovering around for so long and if 0:14:02.533 --> 0:14:07.013 we do just touch on that briefly, it seems like 0:14:07.413 --> 0:14:10.613 the arrival of David Rennie and Don Tricker and the 0:14:10.653 --> 0:14:16.533 high performance element will spark a conversation to simplify New 0:14:16.613 --> 0:14:21.453 Zealand rugby's convoluted. Certainly from a public perspective, if you're 0:14:21.493 --> 0:14:24.053 looking at the situation, you're just like, why are you 0:14:24.253 --> 0:14:28.013 making this so hard? So maybe in the future we 0:14:28.093 --> 0:14:30.373 have a situation where players signed to come home to 0:14:30.413 --> 0:14:33.253 New Zealand, he's immediately eligible for the All Blacks. Maybe 0:14:33.853 --> 0:14:37.933 you can select two or three players that have met 0:14:37.973 --> 0:14:42.053 a certain experienced threshold from offshore that and that doesn't 0:14:42.053 --> 0:14:44.613 open the floodgates. I'm not too sure, but I certainly 0:14:44.653 --> 0:14:46.813 feel like that's where Dave Rennie wants it to get to. 0:14:47.293 --> 0:14:49.693 And with Don Tricker coming back, it sounds like there's 0:14:49.733 --> 0:14:56.013 conversation starting behind the scenes to address what's been quite 0:14:56.053 --> 0:14:58.773 hard for the average Joe public to wrap the head around. 0:14:58.853 --> 0:15:02.013 Right. Yeah, Look, we understand the nuances and I think 0:15:02.013 --> 0:15:03.893 we've touched on this before, but we understand that the 0:15:03.973 --> 0:15:07.373 nuances of why certain rules are in players and we 0:15:07.413 --> 0:15:09.813 talked about Steve with See Lancaster on the podcast what 0:15:09.813 --> 0:15:11.813 a couple months ago when you came in and joined 0:15:11.893 --> 0:15:15.493 us as well. I understand New Zealand Rugby's perspective, but 0:15:15.893 --> 0:15:17.973 if you're a casual fan or maybe a fan that 0:15:18.053 --> 0:15:22.493 only watches the All Blacks, you try explaining why Richie 0:15:22.533 --> 0:15:26.133 Moore can't be on this tour that has been hyped 0:15:26.213 --> 0:15:28.093 up and talked about. Is you know the biggest thing 0:15:28.133 --> 0:15:29.133 in rugby this year? 0:15:29.693 --> 0:15:33.213 You haven't selected and he's playing provincial rugby for Cannonbury. Yeah, 0:15:33.213 --> 0:15:36.413 and you're playing him hundreds of thousands of dollars. 0:15:36.573 --> 0:15:39.053 Yeah, exactly. It doesn't pass the pub test, I don't think. 0:15:39.213 --> 0:15:42.453 And hopefully, as you alluded to that, with Don Trekor 0:15:42.533 --> 0:15:44.813 on board and Conrad Smith coming in, Dave Rennie, whether 0:15:44.853 --> 0:15:46.813 it's over some and whatever it might be, they can 0:15:46.853 --> 0:15:48.933 put their heads around the table and go okay, that's 0:15:49.093 --> 0:15:52.933 it's easier to understand for the casual fan, for everyone, 0:15:53.253 --> 0:15:55.653 and for the players themselves that know what they're getting 0:15:55.693 --> 0:15:58.373 into when they do leave New Zealand Rugby that these 0:15:58.413 --> 0:16:00.093 are the rules or these are the ways that you 0:16:00.213 --> 0:16:02.253 can come back and play for the All Blacks. So 0:16:02.253 --> 0:16:03.413 I think that can only be a good thing. 0:16:04.173 --> 0:16:06.173 Just before we leave them along a situation, you know, 0:16:06.253 --> 0:16:08.133 injuries and form, and there'd be a lot that will 0:16:08.133 --> 0:16:10.893 try inspire over the coming weeks and months. But as 0:16:10.933 --> 0:16:13.733 it sits now, if we say that Josh Jacob is 0:16:13.813 --> 0:16:16.253 highly likely to go home after the three tests here 0:16:16.293 --> 0:16:19.893 before Baltimore and then you cast a head to the 0:16:19.973 --> 0:16:23.213 Bledderslow's and the India Tour, can the All Blacks carry 0:16:23.373 --> 0:16:27.453 within let's say a thirty six man squad whichm longer 0:16:27.733 --> 0:16:29.973 Ruben Love, Damien McKenzie and Boden Barrett. 0:16:32.093 --> 0:16:35.933 I don't think they can. Lord McKinsey is now seen 0:16:36.013 --> 0:16:37.773 as a fullback and I think that this is going 0:16:37.813 --> 0:16:40.173 to be the interesting part of this is that more 0:16:40.293 --> 0:16:42.533 will probably quickly find himself being number two in the 0:16:42.573 --> 0:16:45.533 picking order behind Reuben Love. And what does that mean 0:16:45.613 --> 0:16:49.413 for Boden Barrett. You know he's getting a start at 0:16:49.453 --> 0:16:52.853 fullback this weekend. Maybe his path back to Test rugby 0:16:52.973 --> 0:16:57.253 his via fullback. I don't know, but as I said before, 0:16:57.293 --> 0:16:59.333 there are going to be some tough conversations coming up, 0:17:00.173 --> 0:17:02.173 you know, Josh Jacob my came and you know, shoot 0:17:02.213 --> 0:17:05.093 the lights out against the balls this weekend and maybe 0:17:05.373 --> 0:17:07.733 change Daver in his mind around whether he is as 0:17:07.733 --> 0:17:10.053 a plier that is sent on the early played home 0:17:10.133 --> 0:17:12.013 to New Zealand or whether he does go to Baltimore. 0:17:12.133 --> 0:17:15.933 So I think, yeah, there are some interesting conversations to come. 0:17:16.053 --> 0:17:20.733 But I think it's pretty fluid and yep, I don't 0:17:20.733 --> 0:17:22.493 know that he can carry all four. But I also 0:17:22.653 --> 0:17:25.573 think now you know, Mackenzie not sure that he'll play 0:17:25.653 --> 0:17:28.973 ten under Dave Rennie with moren coming in with Jacob, 0:17:29.533 --> 0:17:31.893 So yeah, it's live. What do you think? 0:17:31.973 --> 0:17:33.773 Yeah, Fluid's a good way to discribe. And I think 0:17:34.373 --> 0:17:37.413 Dave Rennie was very honest today when he said I 0:17:37.493 --> 0:17:40.293 don't know when Muhanga will play Test rugby and I 0:17:40.333 --> 0:17:45.333 think that's genuine. So that will transpire over the coming weeks. 0:17:46.413 --> 0:17:48.533 Casting a head to the Northern Tour, I think Boden 0:17:48.573 --> 0:17:51.173 Barrett is massively at risk and I think he needs 0:17:51.653 --> 0:17:54.133 to perform. He needs a performance. Steel Blacks publicly have 0:17:54.293 --> 0:17:58.933 maintained that they're happy with what he's displaying. I was 0:17:59.053 --> 0:18:03.333 very underwhelmed by his starting performance against the Stormers. As 0:18:03.413 --> 0:18:05.253 you say, he is now switched from ten to fifteen 0:18:06.493 --> 0:18:08.933 and that's another string to his by. But to do 0:18:09.133 --> 0:18:13.413 that he needs to be strong and confident under the 0:18:13.493 --> 0:18:18.173 high ball and back his running game. I think he's 0:18:18.213 --> 0:18:20.853 probably his tendency in recent time has been to kick 0:18:20.933 --> 0:18:25.093 first rather than run or pass, So I think he's look, 0:18:25.133 --> 0:18:26.853 he's played one hundred and forty four tests, He's been 0:18:26.893 --> 0:18:30.213 a world class figure. But I think he needs to perform. 0:18:30.213 --> 0:18:32.373 He's under pressure to perform, and if there is one 0:18:32.373 --> 0:18:34.373 guy that's gonna mess out, it would. 0:18:34.133 --> 0:18:37.653 Have to be at this point in time. But you 0:18:37.733 --> 0:18:39.973 know he might get some game time against the balls 0:18:40.053 --> 0:18:41.933 and tear them apart of the loft of service face. 0:18:42.293 --> 0:18:43.173 Things can change quickly. 0:18:43.213 --> 0:18:47.613 They very much can. Just finally on Morga in some way. 0:18:47.773 --> 0:18:49.133 In a lot of ways, it's just good to have 0:18:49.213 --> 0:18:52.733 as done. It has been a backdrop from basically twenty 0:18:52.813 --> 0:18:56.373 twenty four onwards under the Scott Robertson tenure of this team. 0:18:57.373 --> 0:19:00.253 You know he basically talked about it, and look, a 0:19:00.333 --> 0:19:02.973 lot of the times he wasn't very good at shutting 0:19:02.973 --> 0:19:04.973 it down and he needed to be better at that. 0:19:05.333 --> 0:19:07.173 But there was occasions like in Sydney where he talked 0:19:07.173 --> 0:19:09.813 about he'd been out for a surf with Joey John's 0:19:10.053 --> 0:19:12.013 and had been brought up there, and you know, a 0:19:12.093 --> 0:19:14.093 couple of times he did bring it up without even 0:19:14.133 --> 0:19:17.093 being prompted to bring it up. But this has been 0:19:17.333 --> 0:19:20.053 two and a half years of when's Richie Moore coming 0:19:20.093 --> 0:19:22.733 back Windsy into the All Blacks Jersey? A saga, A sarga. 0:19:22.773 --> 0:19:25.253 It has been a saga, and look, I'm sure we'll 0:19:25.253 --> 0:19:27.173 hear it from him at some point over the next 0:19:27.213 --> 0:19:30.773 week or so. But and it's good to have it pretty. 0:19:30.533 --> 0:19:36.053 Much done absolutely for eighteen months at least until he 0:19:36.133 --> 0:19:38.013 decides what he's going to do after the World Cup. 0:19:38.133 --> 0:19:42.533 And I guess that's that was his decision in terms 0:19:42.533 --> 0:19:46.373 of those the stipulations around the eligibility put himself in 0:19:46.453 --> 0:19:49.733 that situation to a degree, and that's because he's uncertain 0:19:49.773 --> 0:19:51.773 about what his future holds beyond the next World Cup, 0:19:51.853 --> 0:19:56.293 and he's got every right to be. He's come back 0:19:56.333 --> 0:19:57.853 to Chase you All Black Jersey to go to a 0:19:57.893 --> 0:20:01.453 World Cup and then beyond that, maybe goes back to 0:20:01.573 --> 0:20:04.973 Japan and cash and maybe he stays home. He's got 0:20:05.013 --> 0:20:07.453 a young family who knows. So it's done and dusted 0:20:07.693 --> 0:20:10.733 for eighteen once and let's see what he can produce 0:20:10.773 --> 0:20:11.373 for the All Blacks. 0:20:11.453 --> 0:20:14.573 Indeed, so let's quickly touch on the Sharks game. The 0:20:14.653 --> 0:20:17.653 All Blacks fifty four NILA over the Sharks in Durban. 0:20:19.213 --> 0:20:21.093 I don't know if it came through on the TV 0:20:21.333 --> 0:20:23.933 or maybe the radio however you consume the game, but 0:20:24.173 --> 0:20:26.933 it was maybe not as raining as heavily during the 0:20:27.013 --> 0:20:29.573 game itself, but it had been bucketing down in Durban 0:20:29.733 --> 0:20:32.253 for the best part of forty eight hours before the game, 0:20:32.413 --> 0:20:35.013 and I'm sure people saw the splashes and the puddles 0:20:35.453 --> 0:20:38.693 on the surface. But it wasn't the greatest the first 0:20:38.693 --> 0:20:40.653 half of the All Blacks. But I think they're pretty 0:20:40.693 --> 0:20:42.773 happy with the way they kicked on in the second 0:20:42.813 --> 0:20:45.373 spell and took charge of that game with buy and 0:20:45.533 --> 0:20:49.413 larger first choice team. What did you make of it? 0:20:51.853 --> 0:20:55.493 Look, there were some special moments around this game, Man 0:20:56.253 --> 0:20:59.533 doing the Hauker to the All Blacks and all the 0:20:59.613 --> 0:21:04.133 backstory around how we met Sarannoumonger and somebody Ellison and 0:21:04.333 --> 0:21:12.133 doing cup cold the Huker. But from a spectacle perspective, 0:21:13.053 --> 0:21:15.773 this was the flattest All Blacks test or match I've 0:21:15.813 --> 0:21:19.693 ever been to. Fourteen thousand people in a fifty thousand 0:21:19.733 --> 0:21:24.093 seat stadium. It was a very underwhelming Sharks team second string, 0:21:24.173 --> 0:21:28.373 missing spring Box, injury depleted, and they barely fired a 0:21:28.413 --> 0:21:32.293 shot the All Blacks. It was a pretty scratchy first half. 0:21:32.893 --> 0:21:35.133 They kicked into gear in the second, scored some great 0:21:35.213 --> 0:21:38.693