Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: straight down the middle of try try to get inside
Speaker 1: the game from every end goal. It's Rugby Direct with
Speaker 1: Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, howared by Fourklip Solutions, lifting you
Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. The tour, It
Speaker 2: moves on, We roll on and now in Johannesburg, oh
Speaker 2: Ye Smith with me, Liam Napier, Liam shadow boxing, but
Speaker 2: the shadow boxing from a All Blacks perspective will most
Speaker 2: complete one more tour game before the Tests start against
Speaker 2: the Bulls. But we thought it might happen. It has happened.
Speaker 2: Richie Muwonga will join Rugby's greatest rivalry Tour. Not a
Speaker 2: surprise he's coming over, although they've taken a few days
Speaker 2: to work out that he was the guy that wanted
Speaker 2: to replace Billy Proctor. They left it into after the
Speaker 2: Sharks game, which will touch on shortly your thoughts on
Speaker 2: the fact that Richie Moonger is jordan Us All Blacks Tour.
Speaker 3: They took their time, didn't they thoughts might happen more swiftly,
Speaker 3: maybe a day or two earlier, but it has happened,
Speaker 3: and it was probably always gonna happen at some point
Speaker 3: this tour. You can argue whether the All Blacks need
Speaker 3: five playmakers. They probably don't, but Dave Rennie always wanted
Speaker 3: Rich mu Wonger involved from the outset of this Test season,
Speaker 3: from the outset of this tour. He is gonna be
Speaker 3: a big part of the longer term World Cup picture,
Speaker 3: and so it's not a surprise that he's here.
Speaker 2: Is No, it's not, and it always felt likely as
Speaker 2: soon as Billy Proctor's ruled out that he was probably
Speaker 2: probably the guy that left that decision into after the
Speaker 2: Sharks game to see if there were any other injuries.
Speaker 2: Damien McKenzie twisted his ankle but by all accounts is
Speaker 2: going to be completely fine for next week. But they
Speaker 2: decided that this was the right option to take. Interesting though,
Speaker 2: because they've now decided that Rico Yuanne can play midfield
Speaker 2: despite being listed as an outside back. Obviously, we've seen
Speaker 2: Rico Yuanne play plenty of midfield before, and Nadawa was
Speaker 2: mentioned as a player that can slide into midfield as needed.
Speaker 2: But this is about getting him into the All Black system,
Speaker 2: isn't it, And not so much necessarily a game time,
Speaker 2: although that will happen and sounds like you'll play at
Speaker 2: least some role against the Lions. But this is about
Speaker 2: getting him into the All Blacks and they found a
Speaker 2: way to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Look, the only reason he's not here
Speaker 3: is because he signed an eighteen month contract as opposed
Speaker 3: to a two year contract, and that forced them to
Speaker 3: go back and play provincial rugby and stay. Rennie was
Speaker 3: always going to use the avenue of an injury to
Speaker 3: try and bring him over at some stage. New Zell
Speaker 3: and robiev Board have granted their approval, So look, the
Speaker 3: band aid's being ripped off, and I think that's good
Speaker 3: for all involved, because otherwise there'd be so much speculation
Speaker 3: throughout this tour. What you have now is a delicate
Speaker 3: situation for Rennie to manage, and to this point, I
Speaker 3: think he's dealt with it really well. We had a
Speaker 3: press conference with him today and he shared the fact
Speaker 3: that he got his four playmakers for Tens together and
Speaker 3: talked to them prior to even telling Rich and Wog
Speaker 3: he was coming over. Very transparent about the fact that
Speaker 3: he is your black coaching, he's the best players involved.
Speaker 3: He also was very open about the fact that Wang
Speaker 3: coming over after these three tour games, that he won't
Speaker 3: be involved in the first Test. But it is a
Speaker 3: delicate dynamic because the selection picture has shifted. I think
Speaker 3: this season with on the basis of Ruben Love's form,
Speaker 3: Dave Rennie has thrown him the keys, he's given him
Speaker 3: the confidence. He's backed him, and Love has repaid that faith.
Speaker 3: And look, he's not the finished product, but there's a
Speaker 3: lot to like about the way he's gone about his work,
Speaker 3: his vision. He's great under the high ball, he's good
Speaker 3: on defense. He's very confident and assured in what he's doing.
Speaker 3: But beyond that first test, as you say, Muong a
Speaker 3: wall Reny, basically he's told us today he will be
Speaker 3: involved in the Lions game between the first and second Tests,
Speaker 3: and then beyond that, everything has to be earned for everyone.
Speaker 3: So the pressure does ratchet up a notch on Love
Speaker 3: to maintain that jersey and to continue to perform.
Speaker 2: As it should be. There should be pressure on him.
Speaker 2: There's a delicate balance when you've got full playmakers already
Speaker 2: that you've prescribed as tens, and you know Josh Jacomb
Speaker 2: is going to get a start this week against the Balls.
Speaker 2: He's the the young player that they've looked down and gone.
Speaker 2: He's the next in line from the younger cropper players.
Speaker 2: McKenzie's played close to one hundred ish tests I think
Speaker 2: from memory around about eighty eighty on from from off
Speaker 2: the top of my head, Boden Barretts play one hundred
Speaker 2: and forty four. These are experienced players, but it is
Speaker 2: a delicate balance to get. You know, every player's got
Speaker 2: a perspective of where they should be sitting in the play,
Speaker 2: in the picking order and everything like that. So I
Speaker 2: think it's the right call from Dave Renny to get
Speaker 2: the four together and go this is what's happening. He's
Speaker 2: coming in. But case of iron sharpens iron, I think,
Speaker 2: and you get Richie Muangaran adds in to the brain's
Speaker 2: trust of the all Blacks tens. I spoke with Josh
Speaker 2: Jacob today who was very effusive and says he, you know,
Speaker 2: by the end of the tour, basically Richie's going to
Speaker 2: be stick of the side of them because he's looking
Speaker 2: forward to picking his brain so much about what he
Speaker 2: sees in the game. So if that's the perspective they take,
Speaker 2: then I think it can only be a good thing.
Speaker 2: But it will be awkward at some point now that
Speaker 2: Richie Wonge is back or about to be back in
Speaker 2: a matter of a day or so in the All
Speaker 2: Blacks environment, because they're going to carry forty four obviously
Speaker 2: for the Ruggby's Greatest Rivalry, but they're going to drop
Speaker 2: a few for the back past Baltimore and then you
Speaker 2: look at the Bledterslow Cup and the end of Year Tour.
Speaker 2: There are some big calls to be made soon by
Speaker 2: Dave Rennie. So as soon as he arrives, it's a
Speaker 2: chance for every player is basically going to have to
Speaker 2: be on their best.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Look, I think Rennie's dealt with it initially,
Speaker 3: but it's just a start yep, isn't it. And there's
Speaker 3: going to be many difficult conversations to be heads. But
Speaker 3: I do like how he's front footed it. He could
Speaker 3: have just selected him and left it as a bit
Speaker 3: of an elephant in the room, and then the impact
Speaker 3: comes through selection and you start to unravel and destabilize
Speaker 3: the culture that you've built. So to meet it head on.
Speaker 3: To be transparents upfront is really important, and that wasn't
Speaker 3: one of the strengths of Razor's regime, and his public
Speaker 3: messaging all the time about wanting to get Muwanga involved
Speaker 3: and bring him home was not a great message to
Speaker 3: send to the tens in that environment at the time.
Speaker 3: So it does a real contrast and how that's been
Speaker 3: dealt with internally in particular, and then Renney's messaging publicly
Speaker 3: I thought was really good again today as well.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, to lift the curtain a bit, and maybe
Speaker 2: people might have seen her on YouTube or watched the
Speaker 2: media conference themselves, But basically Dave Rennie said, let's let's
Speaker 2: talk about Richie Wonger first and then we can move
Speaker 2: on to the game. So there's probably five six minutes
Speaker 2: worth of Richie Wonger related questions and moved into the game.
Speaker 2: So confront a head on. Let's not go around the issue,
Speaker 2: let's go straight into the heart of it and talk
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 3: The next question is what do you expect from Wonga?
Speaker 3: So he's come back from Japan. Three seasons in Japan,
Speaker 3: and while Japan's an improving domestic competition, I would probably
Speaker 3: rate it fourth fifth best domestic comp in the world,
Speaker 3: and so whether it's Super Rugby or English Premiership, it's
Speaker 3: there's still a big, massive gap between those competitions and
Speaker 3: the Test arena. Wong hasn't played Test rugby.
Speaker 2: For since the World Cup final in twenty three, so it's.
Speaker 3: A long time he's come back. He said, two games
Speaker 3: of provincial rugby. I haven't seen those, but the reports
Speaker 3: I've seen, even from Kanteb said, you know, not quite
Speaker 3: the muang of old. It's early days, but historically players
Speaker 3: coming back from Japan need time to find their feet
Speaker 3: to regain their best form. So he's not going to
Speaker 3: come back and be this immediate savior either, you know.
Speaker 3: So what what what? What? What are your expectations for
Speaker 3: Wanga coming back into this orblock environment. Is he just
Speaker 3: going to hit the ground running?
Speaker 2: Well, I don' not meant it's going to depend how
Speaker 2: the first and Test goes because he obviously not play that.
Speaker 2: But I'm not sure the All Blacks need a savior
Speaker 2: per se. And the ideal scenario is that Mounga can
Speaker 2: work his way back in with a Lions game and
Speaker 2: maybe he plays a Test match third Test says, whatever
Speaker 2: it might be and begins to find his feet again
Speaker 2: at test level. But you know, he's a player built
Speaker 2: for the big occasion. You know, you think about how
Speaker 2: many titles he's won. You know, the World Cup has
Speaker 2: obviously eluded him a couple of times now for the
Speaker 2: All Blacks. But I think he can quickly get back
Speaker 2: to the standard that's expected of him. But still have
Speaker 2: Ruben Love. Is that the first choice in You know,
Speaker 2: I don't think Wong has made a compelling enough case
Speaker 2: at the NPC level or previously to go. He's better
Speaker 2: than the guy that's you know, steered the All Blacks
Speaker 2: through the first three tests of the year and will
Speaker 2: do so for the opening tests against the spring Box.
Speaker 2: But what you wanted to see is that he's now
Speaker 2: putting pressure on Rubin Love, and on Bowden Barrett, and
Speaker 2: on Damian McKinsey, albeit McKenzie is now perhaps few as
Speaker 2: more of a fifteen, and on Josh Jacob as well,
Speaker 2: so that that decision is really tough for Dave Runny
Speaker 2: to go. Actually, I thought we were going to go
Speaker 2: with X y Z for Test three, but Moong has
Speaker 2: come in and hit the ground running, and maybe he
Speaker 2: is the guy that can come off the bench or
Speaker 2: play play a role there. So expectations. Look, I think
Speaker 2: he knows test rugby Richard Morgan, and i'd suspect that
Speaker 2: he will get some test experience before this tour is
Speaker 2: out again. And you know, Anton Lenet Brown, for example,
Speaker 2: has come out of Japan, had a little bit of
Speaker 2: test rugby in that July window. But I've been impressed
Speaker 2: with what Anton Lenet Brown has done from that stint
Speaker 2: in Japan. He's been direct, he's been really running some
Speaker 2: nice lines with ball in hand. I thought he was
Speaker 2: one of the All Blacks best against the Stormers. So
Speaker 2: maybe you know you can come back from Japan and
Speaker 2: slot it into a test environment or all Blacks environment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think your point there about easing back into
Speaker 3: it and not been a start in Central figure straight
Speaker 3: off the bat in that sense. On Lena Brown, he
Speaker 3: hasn't been starting, and I agree he has been good,
Speaker 3: but he's been allowed to maybe find his feet a
Speaker 3: little bit. And I would probably argue that Artie Severe
Speaker 3: wasn't at his best in July. You could perhaps attribute
Speaker 3: that to playing in Japan, but he's also been on
Speaker 3: the rugby treadmill for eighteen months, so now, no doubt
Speaker 3: this break will benefit him. So there's a lot of
Speaker 3: dynamics that go into a mix about whether a player
Speaker 3: is at the peak of his form.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. And the other thing that I would
Speaker 2: say as well is that they've got too many first
Speaker 2: fives now. But in a way that is a good
Speaker 2: thing because there's no pressure on one going to have
Speaker 2: to be up to speed and ready to jump in
Speaker 2: for the first or second test because there are so
Speaker 2: many injuries that he's got to slot in. I think
Speaker 2: the fact he's coming now, there'll be three of the
Speaker 2: two games will have gone by the time he gets here,
Speaker 2: so you know, the test lineup is set that you
Speaker 2: don't have to come in and fill a hole straight away.
Speaker 2: You can sort of chip away in the background and
Speaker 2: do that rather than have to add something into the
Speaker 2: mixed straight away. So I think that also does play
Speaker 2: a role, and perhaps that's also been part of the thinking,
Speaker 2: is that we don't need an extra first five. But
Speaker 2: if we're going to bring an extra player in, maybe
Speaker 2: you look at a player that is going to, over
Speaker 2: the next few weeks be able to build into a
Speaker 2: test level player.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you want them involved. He has been a world
Speaker 3: class figure. While he hasn't won a World Cup, I
Speaker 3: think he was exceptional in the quarter final against Ireland
Speaker 3: that victory and has had some great performances for the
Speaker 3: All Blacks when he was given the keys. You know,
Speaker 3: you think back to twenty nineteen and him and Boden
Speaker 3: Barrett falling over each other a week, but that dynamic
Speaker 3: didn't really work, so it took the All Blacks a
Speaker 3: long time to actually be like, okay, Richie's our guy,
Speaker 3: and I think that's when we saw the best of
Speaker 3: him at that level.
Speaker 2: And sorry, sorry to jump over here, but the Black
Speaker 2: site using that double playmaker ten fifteen anymore either, you know, McKenzie.
Speaker 3: They are, but Kens is very content to play that
Speaker 3: second receiver.
Speaker 2: And Jordi Barrett's been pop again to alleviate some of
Speaker 2: the pressure off. So it's more of a ten twelve
Speaker 2: traditional ish double playmaker than a ten to fifteen, which
Speaker 2: I think will help because you're right in twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: they're falling over each other.
Speaker 3: And while Muhanga and the Tens a natural spotlight flash points,
Speaker 3: competition within any environment, within any elite professional sporting environment
Speaker 3: should be a good thing. Like you say, Iron sharper zion.
Speaker 3: It should push players to reach new heights and look,
Speaker 3: competition is even in another position. Look at the loose forwards.
Speaker 3: They absolutely stacked Locke. Yeah, so it's not confined, but
Speaker 3: it's just the fact that this Richie Muwonga debates eligibility
Speaker 3: shadow has been hovering around for so long and if
Speaker 3: we do just touch on that briefly, it seems like
Speaker 3: the arrival of David Rennie and Don Tricker and the
Speaker 3: high performance element will spark a conversation to simplify New
Speaker 3: Zealand rugby's convoluted. Certainly from a public perspective, if you're
Speaker 3: looking at the situation, you're just like, why are you
Speaker 3: making this so hard? So maybe in the future we
Speaker 3: have a situation where players signed to come home to
Speaker 3: New Zealand, he's immediately eligible for the All Blacks. Maybe
Speaker 3: you can select two or three players that have met
Speaker 3: a certain experienced threshold from offshore that and that doesn't
Speaker 3: open the floodgates. I'm not too sure, but I certainly
Speaker 3: feel like that's where Dave Rennie wants it to get to.
Speaker 3: And with Don Tricker coming back, it sounds like there's
Speaker 3: conversation starting behind the scenes to address what's been quite
Speaker 3: hard for the average Joe public to wrap the head around.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, Look, we understand the nuances and I think
Speaker 2: we've touched on this before, but we understand that the
Speaker 2: nuances of why certain rules are in players and we
Speaker 2: talked about Steve with See Lancaster on the podcast what
Speaker 2: a couple months ago when you came in and joined
Speaker 2: us as well. I understand New Zealand Rugby's perspective, but
Speaker 2: if you're a casual fan or maybe a fan that
Speaker 2: only watches the All Blacks, you try explaining why Richie
Speaker 2: Moore can't be on this tour that has been hyped
Speaker 2: up and talked about. Is you know the biggest thing
Speaker 2: in rugby this year?
Speaker 3: You haven't selected and he's playing provincial rugby for Cannonbury. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you're playing him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It doesn't pass the pub test, I don't think.
Speaker 2: And hopefully, as you alluded to that, with Don Trekor
Speaker 2: on board and Conrad Smith coming in, Dave Rennie, whether
Speaker 2: it's over some and whatever it might be, they can
Speaker 2: put their heads around the table and go okay, that's
Speaker 2: it's easier to understand for the casual fan, for everyone,
Speaker 2: and for the players themselves that know what they're getting
Speaker 2: into when they do leave New Zealand Rugby that these
Speaker 2: are the rules or these are the ways that you
Speaker 2: can come back and play for the All Blacks. So
Speaker 2: I think that can only be a good thing.
Speaker 3: Just before we leave them along a situation, you know,
Speaker 3: injuries and form, and there'd be a lot that will
Speaker 3: try inspire over the coming weeks and months. But as
Speaker 3: it sits now, if we say that Josh Jacob is
Speaker 3: highly likely to go home after the three tests here
Speaker 3: before Baltimore and then you cast a head to the
Speaker 3: Bledderslow's and the India Tour, can the All Blacks carry
Speaker 3: within let's say a thirty six man squad whichm longer
Speaker 3: Ruben Love, Damien McKenzie and Boden Barrett.
Speaker 2: I don't think they can. Lord McKinsey is now seen
Speaker 2: as a fullback and I think that this is going
Speaker 2: to be the interesting part of this is that more
Speaker 2: will probably quickly find himself being number two in the
Speaker 2: picking order behind Reuben Love. And what does that mean
Speaker 2: for Boden Barrett. You know he's getting a start at
Speaker 2: fullback this weekend. Maybe his path back to Test rugby
Speaker 2: his via fullback. I don't know, but as I said before,
Speaker 2: there are going to be some tough conversations coming up,
Speaker 2: you know, Josh Jacob my came and you know, shoot
Speaker 2: the lights out against the balls this weekend and maybe
Speaker 2: change Daver in his mind around whether he is as
Speaker 2: a plier that is sent on the early played home
Speaker 2: to New Zealand or whether he does go to Baltimore.
Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, there are some interesting conversations to come.
Speaker 2: But I think it's pretty fluid and yep, I don't
Speaker 2: know that he can carry all four. But I also
Speaker 2: think now you know, Mackenzie not sure that he'll play
Speaker 2: ten under Dave Rennie with moren coming in with Jacob,
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's live. What do you think?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Fluid's a good way to discribe. And I think
Speaker 3: Dave Rennie was very honest today when he said I
Speaker 3: don't know when Muhanga will play Test rugby and I
Speaker 3: think that's genuine. So that will transpire over the coming weeks.
Speaker 3: Casting a head to the Northern Tour, I think Boden
Speaker 3: Barrett is massively at risk and I think he needs
Speaker 3: to perform. He needs a performance. Steel Blacks publicly have
Speaker 3: maintained that they're happy with what he's displaying. I was
Speaker 3: very underwhelmed by his starting performance against the Stormers. As
Speaker 3: you say, he is now switched from ten to fifteen
Speaker 3: and that's another string to his by. But to do
Speaker 3: that he needs to be strong and confident under the
Speaker 3: high ball and back his running game. I think he's
Speaker 3: probably his tendency in recent time has been to kick
Speaker 3: first rather than run or pass, So I think he's look,
Speaker 3: he's played one hundred and forty four tests, He's been
Speaker 3: a world class figure. But I think he needs to perform.
Speaker 3: He's under pressure to perform, and if there is one
Speaker 3: guy that's gonna mess out, it would.
Speaker 2: Have to be at this point in time. But you
Speaker 2: know he might get some game time against the balls
Speaker 2: and tear them apart of the loft of service face.
Speaker 3: Things can change quickly.
Speaker 2: They very much can. Just finally on Morga in some way.
Speaker 2: In a lot of ways, it's just good to have
Speaker 2: as done. It has been a backdrop from basically twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four onwards under the Scott Robertson tenure of this team.
Speaker 2: You know he basically talked about it, and look, a
Speaker 2: lot of the times he wasn't very good at shutting
Speaker 2: it down and he needed to be better at that.
Speaker 2: But there was occasions like in Sydney where he talked
Speaker 2: about he'd been out for a surf with Joey John's
Speaker 2: and had been brought up there, and you know, a
Speaker 2: couple of times he did bring it up without even
Speaker 2: being prompted to bring it up. But this has been
Speaker 2: two and a half years of when's Richie Moore coming
Speaker 2: back Windsy into the All Blacks Jersey? A saga, A sarga.
Speaker 2: It has been a saga, and look, I'm sure we'll
Speaker 2: hear it from him at some point over the next
Speaker 2: week or so. But and it's good to have it pretty.
Speaker 3: Much done absolutely for eighteen months at least until he
Speaker 3: decides what he's going to do after the World Cup.
Speaker 3: And I guess that's that was his decision in terms
Speaker 3: of those the stipulations around the eligibility put himself in
Speaker 3: that situation to a degree, and that's because he's uncertain
Speaker 3: about what his future holds beyond the next World Cup,
Speaker 3: and he's got every right to be. He's come back
Speaker 3: to Chase you All Black Jersey to go to a
Speaker 3: World Cup and then beyond that, maybe goes back to
Speaker 3: Japan and cash and maybe he stays home. He's got
Speaker 3: a young family who knows. So it's done and dusted
Speaker 3: for eighteen once and let's see what he can produce
Speaker 3: for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2: Indeed, so let's quickly touch on the Sharks game. The
Speaker 2: All Blacks fifty four NILA over the Sharks in Durban.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it came through on the TV
Speaker 2: or maybe the radio however you consume the game, but
Speaker 2: it was maybe not as raining as heavily during the
Speaker 2: game itself, but it had been bucketing down in Durban
Speaker 2: for the best part of forty eight hours before the game,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure people saw the splashes and the puddles
Speaker 2: on the surface. But it wasn't the greatest the first
Speaker 2: half of the All Blacks. But I think they're pretty
Speaker 2: happy with the way they kicked on in the second
Speaker 2: spell and took charge of that game with buy and
Speaker 2: larger first choice team. What did you make of it?
Speaker 3: Look, there were some special moments around this game, Man
Speaker 3: doing the Hauker to the All Blacks and all the
Speaker 3: backstory around how we met Sarannoumonger and somebody Ellison and
Speaker 3: doing cup cold the Huker. But from a spectacle perspective,
Speaker 3: this was the flattest All Blacks test or match I've
Speaker 3: ever been to. Fourteen thousand people in a fifty thousand
Speaker 3: seat stadium. It was a very underwhelming Sharks team second string,
Speaker 3: missing spring Box, injury depleted, and they barely fired a
Speaker 3: shot the All Blacks. It was a pretty scratchy first half.
Speaker 3: They kicked into gear in the second, scored some great
Speaker 3: tries blew the Sharks away, but it was a wee
Speaker 3: bit of an indictment on the tour, I think just
Speaker 3: the level of competitiveness, how many people at the stadium.
Speaker 3: The weather obviously didn't help, but it wasn't a great
Speaker 3: hit out for, like you say, the Shadow Test team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's a one worry I've got
Speaker 2: is that the Bulls game and the Stormers game are
Speaker 2: the two bigger tests in terms of their recent RC form.
Speaker 2: And yeah, they're missing a lot of spring Box and
Speaker 2: both of these two teams. But the Sharks on paper
Speaker 2: were always the weakest team, and the Shadow Test team
Speaker 2: has played them and perhaps not being sharpened up a
Speaker 2: little bit by playing against the Stormers or against the
Speaker 2: Balls this weekend, and some of that's been down to
Speaker 2: the travel issues around changing flights and various things, and
Speaker 2: maybe they would have done it differently, But that would
Speaker 2: be one worry is that a lot of these players
Speaker 2: head of playing South Africa next week, basically didn't have
Speaker 2: to do much defending against the Sharks fifty four nil,
Speaker 2: but I think the Sharks had two maybe three entries
Speaker 2: into the twenty two, barely played any rugby, especially after halftime,
Speaker 2: So it'd be one worry I've got is that, you know,
Speaker 2: the top team hasn't necessarily had a test where they've
Speaker 2: had to really bite down on the marth guard and
Speaker 2: try and get themselves out of a hole or be
Speaker 2: in the being a wrestle match until seventy seventy five minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, certain individuals within that test s I'd have, but
Speaker 3: not as a collective and it will have been what
Speaker 3: like a month since they would have played together as
Speaker 3: one and been under a real litanus test as well.
Speaker 3: So yep, that's a fair point. Some more of those
Speaker 3: first choice players, Tyro Lomax coming back from a cut
Speaker 3: and a couple of others will get that experience against
Speaker 3: the Bulls, who should potentially provide the sternest tests of
Speaker 3: this tour. But probably the two biggest worries out of
Speaker 3: the team naming for the Bulls were the absences of
Speaker 3: Cam Regard and Will Jordan. Neither will have any game
Speaker 3: time on this tour prior to the first tests. I
Speaker 3: don't think that's a huge thing and an idea will
Speaker 3: they would have, but Roygal was only ever going to
Speaker 3: play twenty thirty minutes. But I am concerned about Will Jordan.
Speaker 3: He hasn't trained by the sounds and Dave Rennie was
Speaker 3: saying he's reasonably confident that he'll play with a back issue.
Speaker 3: But those are two pretty influential figures if you're going
Speaker 3: through the test team that you want to involve for
Speaker 3: the opening assignment against the Box.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's a worry for someone like Will Jordan
Speaker 2: because he's such an influential part in that back three
Speaker 2: and the fact that he has played fullback at Test
Speaker 2: level as well. You'd expect him to start on the
Speaker 2: right wing. If so, I think it is a worry
Speaker 2: that he hasn't had any game time and he's pretty
Speaker 2: touch and go. Yeah, it sounds yeah. The one thing
Speaker 2: that would perhaps it's gonna be a little bit more
Speaker 2: confidence is that they didn't call over any extra cover
Speaker 2: or perhaps look at a halfback for a cameral guard
Speaker 2: situation instead of calling over Richie Wonga. But again there's
Speaker 2: also plenty of wings at their disposed of whether it's
Speaker 2: finnyang and North four that comes in on the right wing,
Speaker 2: or whether it's Morbere that plays on the right wing
Speaker 2: and cl back on the left, which is probably the
Speaker 2: more likely scenario. Maybe finneanng and Awful comes off the bench.
Speaker 2: In that regard, it doesn't sound good. Potentially, it doesn't
Speaker 2: sound it's tour ending at this but backs and niggli things.
Speaker 2: And I'm no professional athlete, but you know, I'm sure
Speaker 2: you have as well put you back out or you
Speaker 2: do it doing something very minor and it takes a
Speaker 2: while to get going. You can easily trigger it again
Speaker 2: by doing something else minor. So it maybe that he
Speaker 2: gets on the training park on Sunday Monday and he's
Speaker 2: actually good to go. But the nigli thing, so yeah,
Speaker 2: at the stage, you'd say it's probably when Dave when
Speaker 2: he said that they're relatively confident that we play. I
Speaker 2: think from our perspective, I'll probably be less confident, not
Speaker 2: that I've got any any prevenus to the details of
Speaker 2: the All Blacks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly more confident in cam Rogard playing than them
Speaker 3: will Jordan and well, for me, I think I would
Speaker 3: like him. He's not a big man, but boxing terminology,
Speaker 3: I think he's better when he's consistently playing. He can
Speaker 3: have a bit of ring rust. I think about him
Speaker 3: coming back for the Crusaders this year and he was
Speaker 3: injured in his first match and he played too long back,
Speaker 3: wasn't managed well and wasn't his best match. So but
Speaker 3: then he gets to run a form and was our
Speaker 3: standing for the All Blacks in July five tries broke
Speaker 3: the record. You know, he's a real confidence player coming
Speaker 3: into a big test like the spring Box when you're
Speaker 3: going to be pipped under the high ball hasn't necessarily
Speaker 3: been his strength in recent times either. Yeah, wee bit
Speaker 3: of concern around there. I certainly been more confident if
Speaker 3: it had a week bit of game time that would
Speaker 3: that would be the All Blacks.
Speaker 2: Idea, Yeah, absolutely, And yeah, the idea was he'd play
Speaker 2: some of this game in Pretoria whatever it might be,
Speaker 2: but not to be. So it's going to be we
Speaker 2: hitache fit for Dave Reenie over the coming days to
Speaker 2: see whether he is fit. Elsewhere, as you mentioned front
Speaker 2: row that hasn't played any rugby on this tour so far,
Speaker 2: in me yea Taylor, who's the captain and to roll
Speaker 2: Lomax more rugby for Holland and tweep a Lorto in
Speaker 2: the second row, who's got the most of game. Do
Speaker 2: you think out of this All Blacks side heading into
Speaker 2: the Test match next week?
Speaker 3: I think loose Ford's a up for grabs on the bench.
Speaker 3: So if you look at Luckeye, Signa and Satitis on
Speaker 3: the bench, so Lucra and Signa are starting, it's gonna
Speaker 3: be very intriguing who the All Blacks go for with
Speaker 3: their I'm expecting them to go to Lowise Ford's on
Speaker 3: the bench with to provide playing six, so I think
Speaker 3: those spots are contestable. I get the feeling that Renny
Speaker 3: will select Cortez Ratma despite Kyle Preston's compelling performance against
Speaker 3: the Sharks, but maybe they go you know, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Fifty minutes thirty minutes that spot you would think is contestable.
Speaker 3: And then and then on the wings, I think you
Speaker 3: touched on that scenario there should will Jordan be ruled out?
Speaker 3: So those dynamics there and then I guess a guy
Speaker 3: like Josh Jacob starting his first test at ten you
Speaker 3: spoke to him today as you mentioned, big chance for
Speaker 3: a young guy. These aren't gonna around too often. What
Speaker 3: was your sense about where his head's at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's in a good headspace, Josh Jacob.
Speaker 2: He doesn't feel like a guy that gets flustered by
Speaker 2: too much and seems ready for the opportunity. I think
Speaker 2: he has a big, big opportunity for Josh Jacob to
Speaker 2: circle back to where we were talking about earlier in
Speaker 2: the podcast, This is a chance to put himself up
Speaker 2: in the rankings and go Nope. Can I consider an
Speaker 2: all Blacks team will be a not at test level,
Speaker 2: but Sarah, an all Blacks team around the paddock. I
Speaker 2: thought he added a bit of spark when he came
Speaker 2: off the bench against the Stormers. Different having with the
Speaker 2: game not from memory, Camel was still fourteen all, but
Speaker 2: it was against a tiring Stormer's pack. This is different.
Speaker 2: This is against a Bulls team that is, you know,
Speaker 2: in their home conditions on the high velves, and you
Speaker 2: know USC finalists this year as well, or a lot
Speaker 2: of these players so different. But I get the sense
Speaker 2: that you know, he's ready to take this opportunity, So
Speaker 2: I think that's you know, it can only be a positive.
Speaker 2: Whether it translates into any test match time for him
Speaker 2: too here to say, but he's got a bit to
Speaker 2: goa and I think out of this weekend, I.
Speaker 3: Think it's also a big test for Xavier Numea, his
Speaker 3: first opportunity on tour and look, you think about should
Speaker 3: eaton the group go down. He's probably next keV or
Speaker 3: maybe George Bauer, but from a scrummaging perspective, coming to
Speaker 3: South Africa and experiencing that for the first time as
Speaker 3: a bit of a baptism of fires we've seen against
Speaker 3: the Stormers, so that experience will be invaluable for him.
Speaker 3: I also just wanted to touch on we technical aspect.
Speaker 3: I spoke to Cody Taylor today about the breakfoot, which
Speaker 3: who won't delve into it too heavily, but the All
Speaker 3: Blacks have been pinged a lot and this is a
Speaker 3: new technicality that the refs are ruling on so pinged
Speaker 3: at scrum time. Basically the breakfoot if you go onto
Speaker 3: a scrummers the hooker. I've got Taylor to explain this
Speaker 3: to me. It's your hooking foot and through super Aguy,
Speaker 3: through the Sick Nations, you were allowed to move that
Speaker 3: slightly to adjust your weights, particularly on your neck. Well,
Speaker 3: the referees are basically saying now you're not allowed to
Speaker 3: move that at all. And so it's a big adjustment
Speaker 3: for a hooker to make. And the all Blacks sort
Speaker 3: of learning on the hot that this is going to
Speaker 3: be policed quite heavily, and they've been paying a number
Speaker 3: of times on tours so that they're trying to get
Speaker 3: their head around it. So just in terms of that
Speaker 3: break for element, that's that's what they've been struggling with
Speaker 3: and trying to get the head around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was interesting to hear Dave Rennie put
Speaker 2: the question to him in the media conference around that
Speaker 2: and don't I get the sense and he sort of
Speaker 2: said it that he doesn't think it makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2: It's done for safety reasons, but he doesn't think it
Speaker 2: doesn't especially I don't know, I kind of think we
Speaker 2: need to trust the players a little bit more on this.
Speaker 2: You know, wild rugby is very good at dictating what's
Speaker 2: safer players and what isn't. But I also think that
Speaker 2: players probably know what the weight is. It's done for
Speaker 2: actual loading. You know, they probably know how safe it is,
Speaker 2: you know, something coming through their break foot versus having
Speaker 2: to adjust it, which could again prevent serious injury. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes you might adjust it because you can feel, you know,
Speaker 2: the load moving and you need to adjust it to
Speaker 2: like anything like you're you're on a ladder or whatever
Speaker 2: it might be. You know, your body knows where it's
Speaker 2: at risk of getting injury or where it's getting risk
Speaker 2: of you know, losing it's losing its footing.
Speaker 3: So it's a weird thing to come hot on.
Speaker 2: That's world rugby for you. That you know that they
Speaker 2: get into the weeds of things without looking at the
Speaker 2: bigger picture. And yeah, I won't start, but you know this,
Speaker 2: it feels like a very odd thing for them to
Speaker 2: focus on. I'm sure it's done with the safety perspective,
Speaker 2: but often I don't think that's done with a player's
Speaker 2: perspective in mind. I think it's done with people that
Speaker 2: are either long retired or haven't played the game, rather
Speaker 2: than actually talking to the players on how it should
Speaker 2: be played.
Speaker 3: The other are elements. We're here in Johannesburg, the Lings
Speaker 3: are playing in Pretoria. This is Highvelt country. The year
Speaker 3: is dinner. You notice it when you're walking around, if
Speaker 3: you're on a troubem or if you're on a bike,
Speaker 3: no matter what you're doing. So for the All Blacks
Speaker 3: to get a game in an altitude that I think
Speaker 3: that's that's a real benefit for them this weekend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. How you coped with the altitude.
Speaker 3: Well, I might sneak off to the gym after this
Speaker 3: if I can, if I can manage it. So we'll
Speaker 3: find out. But previous years it is noticeable. You know,
Speaker 3: you might think you're in good shape and then you
Speaker 3: get on the troubemill or whatever it is, doing a
Speaker 3: workout and you can only do half of what you can,
Speaker 3: particularly when you initially arrive. I've had blood clots in
Speaker 3: the nose. I know previous tours you've talked about Sam
Speaker 3: Darry arriving and having a bleeding nose. So it affects
Speaker 3: people differently, but it can have a very real effect
Speaker 3: on your lungs, on your ability to breathe, and then
Speaker 3: you throw a Test match in the mix. Yeah, traditionally
Speaker 3: the All Blacks have dealt with that really well, but
Speaker 3: it is I think it'll be very beneficial for them
Speaker 3: to hit for a lot of them to have a
Speaker 3: head out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too, And I think it was
Speaker 2: Ethan Degrue who said it in the video call back
Speaker 2: to New Zealand Media the day. It's like breathing through
Speaker 2: a straw. So when you're playing out there, so you
Speaker 2: do notice it, your mouth gets a little bit drier
Speaker 2: and everything like that. So yeah, there's something else with
Speaker 2: the All Blacks to deal with. Just Cokene as well.
Speaker 2: The All Blacks, they've really suggested that maybe they look
Speaker 2: at a six to two bench in these tour games.
Speaker 2: They haven't because obviously Cambroy Guard has been injured. Until
Speaker 2: yesterday they were looking at Leroy Carter maybe filling the
Speaker 2: reserve halfback role for this game, but they decided against it.
Speaker 2: Do you do you think that means they weren't looking
Speaker 2: at six to two for a Test match now they
Speaker 2: haven't used it in the warm ups.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I don't think we'll see that
Speaker 3: against the Box unless they were really struck down in
Speaker 3: a half back capacity. Look, Lee Roy Carter could perform
Speaker 3: that role, but I just think you're better off going
Speaker 3: with specialists. Maybe we see the Box go seven to one,
Speaker 3: maybe four for eight pack on the bench. Yeah, look
Speaker 3: at the seven to one. I think they did that
Speaker 3: at twicken And prior to the World Cup and they
Speaker 3: completely steamrolled the All Blacks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that wouldn't have mattered though they're already well here
Speaker 2: in the All Back twent six to two that afternoon
Speaker 2: evening and the game was done by halftime. From memory.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So look, I think you've got to be where
Speaker 3: are being sucked into the spring Box strengths. Stick to
Speaker 3: your game plan. It's an option on the table, but
Speaker 3: I'll be surprised if we see it in this test series.
Speaker 2: Indeed, Well, one more tour game to go before the
Speaker 2: test matches. Get underwagh the Balls on Sunday morning, New
Speaker 2: zeal On time from five am. You can catch it
Speaker 2: on news Talk z be sport or of Liam's analysis
Speaker 2: on in zidherld dot co dot nz. But that will
Speaker 2: do us for the latterest edition of Rage be direct
Speaker 2: thanks to Mark Kelly for producing, and we are powered
Speaker 2: by Forklift Solutions, lifting you and your business to a high.
Speaker 1: For more from News Talk zed B, listen live on
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio