1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:00,240 Speaker 1: Not. 2 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 2: Foreign Minister and High Commissioner to London Phil Goff says 3 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 2: New Zealand needs to do more than just use words 4 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: to deal with the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza right now. 5 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 2: Phil Goff has written an opinion piece today accusing Israel 6 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 2: of committing war crimes and he's calling for sanctions. He's 7 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 2: with us now, he Phil, Yeah, hi, how are you? 8 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 2: I'm well, thank you. Are sanctions even in our phil 9 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: to change what Israel is doing as fast as it 10 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: needs to change. 11 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: Well, probably nothing is enough. The only thing that would 12 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: really move Israel as if the Trump administration was to 13 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: say no more. But unfortunately the president's not doing that. 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: He's in fact put sanctions not against Israel but against 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: the judges on the International Criminal Court that found Netanyahu 16 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: guilty of war crimes. And you know, far from stopping 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: what appears to be now genocide, moving people out of 18 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: their homes, out of their homeland, out of their Gaza altogether, 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: he's encouraging that, saying send them to Libya and let's 20 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: make this the riviera of the Middle East changed so unbelievable. 21 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: I think things have rapidly changed in the last couple 22 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: of weeks, haven't they. So why when you are faced 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: with what we are seeing on television every night at 24 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 2: the moment of children starving, why is the US not 25 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: doing anything about it? 26 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: Do you think I don't think the US cares about 27 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: the Palestinians. The Israelis clearly don't care about the fact 28 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: that you know, they've killed seventeen thousand kids, that's a 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: conservative estimate. They've probably nimed forty or fifty thousand kids. 30 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: They don't Their goal is now clear. The extremists are 31 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: in charge of Israel. This is not the Israel that 32 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: I spent time on in when I was young, on kibbutzim. 33 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: This is an Israel that wants that don't believe they 34 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: are living there in the Palestinian areas have any rights. 35 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: They want them out, They want the whole territory and 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: are making life as difficult and as horrible as possible 37 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: for the people that are still there. And it does 38 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: it breaks your heart to see those pictures that we 39 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: see nightly from the comfort of our living rooms at 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: home in New Zealand. 41 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 2: Well, do you think that is the endgame? I mean, 42 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: is the point here basically to clear out Gaza? So 43 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 2: that there are no Palifornia's normal from us there. 44 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have said that probably a 45 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: year ago or six years ago. But I believe that 46 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: that now is the end game. And people like Ben Gavere, 47 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: the National Security Minister, and smot Rich who's the Minister 48 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: of Finance. These people are really extreme. You know, Ben 49 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: Gaverea has been convicted in the past of urging the 50 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: elimination of the Arabs. You know, you saw marches through 51 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: Jerusalem last weekend where people where Jewish people were chanting 52 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: kill the Arabs. Now that's not all Jewish people. There's 53 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: a lot of good people in Israel that think that 54 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: what's happening here is wrong. And in the article I 55 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: quoted the former Prime Minister of Israel, who Hud Almut, 56 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: who came from Mettanja, who's own party, and he talked 57 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: about the indiscriminate, limitless, cruel and criminal killing of civilians. 58 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: So people within Israel understand that what Destanna who's basically 59 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: doing is fighting for his not only his political life, 60 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: that is freedom because he knows that he will face 61 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: criminal charges for corruption when he ceases to be Prime minister. 62 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: The people that are in charge of that place now. 63 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: Are extreme in every way and what they're doing is 64 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: totally intolerable. So it's up to us now to take 65 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: whatever steps we can. We're a small nation, but in 66 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: the past we've worked with other countries, you know, like 67 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: like Ireland and Sweden are both calling for sanctions against Israel. 68 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: If the EU put sanctions against Israel, that's a third 69 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: of Israel's total trade. That will hurt Israel. If we 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: were to put sanctions not just against the extremist settlers 71 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: that our government has put sanctions against, but against the 72 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: political leadership of of Israel, then we could make a difference. 73 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: If we were to stand up in the UN and 74 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: lead rather than simply follow, that would also make a difference. 75 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for your time. I appreciated Phil GoF, 76 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: former Minister of Foreign Affairs, obviously former Commissioners High Commissioner 77 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: to London. By the way, his replacement has just been announced, 78 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: Hamish Cooper will take the job in September. 79 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 80 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 81 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.