WEBVTT - End of Windows 10 support raises security and e‑waste concerns in NZ 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:06.040 Kiota. 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:09.320 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:17.200 daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Microsoft is 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:22.400 ending its support for the Windows ten operating system from today. 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.920 It means computers still running the system might be at risk, 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.680 given security updates will stop, and while the company is 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.360 urging users to upgrade for free to Windows eleven, not 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.760 all devices will be able to support it. At the 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.320 same time, there are growing concerns about the surge in 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.199 electronic waste. Today on the front Page, Consumer and z 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.960 Products test writer Nick Gelling is with us to take 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:58.200 us through what happens to your old devices. So Nick, 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.320 first off, tell me what's actually happened with Windows ten. 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:06.319 So starting from today, Microsoft is ending support for Win 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.720 those ten computers. What that means is that they won't 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:14.399 be receiving security updates anymore. So any computers that are 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:19.920 still running Windows ten start to become a risk against 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.600 online attacks and that kind of thing. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:24.679 I mean, I don't know about you, but I do 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.959 actually have a Windows computer. I had no idea that 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.600 this was happening, and I don't even know why. I 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.600 need to go home and check what system is it's 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.959 operating do you reckon. Microsoft's done a good enough job 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.800 actually telling consumers about this change. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.280 It's a huge job. They've got so many customers. Yeah, 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.400 it's a really difficult thing for them to get the 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.800 word out to everyone. They've tried, but yeah, there will 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.760 absolutely be a lot of people that have slipped through 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.400 the cracks, and I'm sure there's more that they could 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.560 have done. And that's I think where the role of 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.640 an organization like Consumer is to get the word out 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.400 and tell people what their options are. 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:09.840 What are their options? 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:15.200 Our first and best option, we think for most people, 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:20.359 is to enroll in Microsoft's Extended Security Updates Program, which 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.960 is a free thing that you can access from your 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.400 update settings on your Windows ten computer, and it basically 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.480 opts you into an extra year of support, so that'll 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:38.280 keep you getting updates until October next year. Microsoft hasn't 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.639 done a very good job of telling us that that's 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.320 there or promoting it, but yeah, that's probably the first 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:49.800 and foremost thing. You could also switch to a different 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.520 operating system if you're not tied to Windows, you could 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.680 install a Linux distribution or something like that instead, but 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:02.240 that takes a little bit of you know, technological knowledge 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:04.080 and If you don't want to do either as either 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.960 of those things, then probably you're looking at buying a 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:08.560 new Windows eleven computer. 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.920 Yeah, so I had to look at our Windows ten 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:16.079 was first released in twenty fifteen. Is ten years kind 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.760 of like the standard for an operating system like. 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.080 This, Yeah, i'd say it is. 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.760 Microsoft has had a ten year life cycle for its 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.960 operating systems for quite a long time, maybe forever, so 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.799 that is normal and in of itself, you know, ten 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.200 years is quite a long time, right. Windows ten was 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:40.000 a hugely successful product, and heaps of people are using it. 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:44.800 It's got a huge install base and people haven't migrated 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.440 off of it yet, and there's a few reasons for that. Partially, 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.920 it's because in order to install Windows eleven, you need 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.760 to have particular hardware requirements on your computer, and some 0:03:55.800 --> 0:04:00.360 people just don't have those parts, so they can't grade, 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.200 so they're stuck on Windows ten. And that hasn't happened 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.480 in the past with previous versions of Windows. You've just 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.560 been able to upgrade, not in one hundred percent of cases, 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.360 but you know, ninety five percent of cases. So that's 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.200 the big difference this time round. Windows eleven was only 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:21.440 announced four years ago along with those requirements. So there 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.880 are people that would have bought computers in you know, 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:30.120 twenty twenty or even early twenty twenty one that are 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.240 now not compatible with Windows eleven only four years later, 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.400 you know, So what are they supposed to do? And 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.640 is that fear that they've only got four years out 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:38.520 of their computer. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:39.160 Yeah. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:43.960 Windows is apparently the most popular computing system in the world, 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.760 with Microsoft saying it is used on over one point 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:53.080 four billion devices globally. Around forty three percent of these 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.880 we're using Windows ten as of July. So it's fair 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.839 to say there should be quite a few New Zealanders impacted. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.880 Do you know how many thereabouts there might be in 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:03.560 New Zealand? 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.440 I mean, we have estimates, they're not very scientific estimates. 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.560 I'm going on about thirty percent of New Zealand computers 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.320 running Windows ten. That number has come down in the 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:21.279 last few months because coming up to the switch off, 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:25.480 people have been thinking about their other options. But even 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.840 based on that thirty percent figure, we're talking hundreds of 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.480 thousands of affected computers in New Zealand, which is you know, 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.520 it's a pretty unbelievable scale. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:35.840 Really, Yeah, it's huge. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.039 I mean, given it means that these systems won't be 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:43.160 receiving security updates, will it just be open market for hackers? 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.400 Like if I were a hacker, I'd be rubbing my 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.200 little hands together at the moment, just hoping that half 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.520 of at least half of these or even one percent 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.320 of these people don't know that this is happening, right. 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.920 Yeah, absolutely, And that's that's the risk. 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.520 And I think it's a risk that Microsoft has created 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.960 for them selves a little bit. If there is waves 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.920 of cyber attacks and heaps of people are losing their 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.560 private information or losing money, it's going to look really 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.400 bad for Microsoft. It's just so hard to predict. I 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.000 think it's the thing. You know, things might be fine 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.479 for for months or even you know, a year in 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.040 the future. It might still be safe to use Windows teen. 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.839 Who knows, but we can't know that, and it could 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:30.320 be super dangerous as of tomorrow. So it's an unpredictable environment. 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:31.920 We don't know what's going to happen, but you don't 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:36.520 want to be involved if it all can tends to custard. 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.560 Is there a way that because there are. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:43.920 External companies that do those secure security upgrades. I'm thinking 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.640 like was there Noughton or something I'm thinking of, like 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:48.919 back in the back in the day, where you'd have 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.640 a desktop and you'd put a CD in and it 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.200 would do like security software, So Mum and Dad didn't 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.679 get any bugs in the computer after I downloaded Jason 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.440 Derulo or something. Are there those kind of things anymore? 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.760 Yeah, yeah, all that stuff still exists. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.560 It's a little bit less popular than it was, but yeah, 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.800 there are plenty of security suite options. 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:17.400 They will do a job. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.160 If you were to keep using a Windows teen computer 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.240 after today, which I wouldn't recommend, but having one of 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.720 those installed would help you, it would, you know, it 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.680 certainly wouldn't do you any harm. While they can stop 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:37.080 I guess the more surface level attacks, the really fundamental, 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.800 deep level kind of the really scary cyber stuff is 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.600 at the operating system level. And so yeah, an unsecure 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.920 operating system is there's no way to really patch over 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:51.000 that completely. 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.560 Well, what happens when you like had the old Windows 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.440 and then installed Windows ninety five. 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:03.720 That's a good question, honey. 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.040 When you upgrade from Windows three point one, old program 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.680 manager groups transferred automatically to this menu. 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.080 Oh, well, that's easier than changing dry cleaners. I mean, 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:14.640 you know you always leave something behind. 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.760 Now below that is your document's menu, which contains your 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:19.800 recently used documents. 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:20.920 So I mean if you can get back to work 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:22.200 on a file faster. 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:26.120 Precisely, Now Settings gets you to the new improved control 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:30.040 panel your printer's folder and allows you to customize the taskbar. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.439 The fine feature is all new on Windows ninety five. 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.120 It's a fast way to find files or folders. 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.200 You mentioned Microsoft is giving uses those two options either 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.960 update to Windows eleven or sign up to get that 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:48.520 extended security updates for twelve months. Do you reckon that's 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:49.160 good enough? 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:54.240 I would say it's the bare minimum, So you know 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:59.040 that's good that they're meeting the minimum. Now by making 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.400 that extendency scurity updates free and available to everyone, there's 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.640 a lot more that Microsoft could do, right. They're a 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:11.520 huge company. They have all the resources in the world 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:16.960 and close to a monopoly on the PC market, right, 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.480 so they have so much control, and we think they've 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:25.040 got a duty as well, like a responsibility to all 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.880 of these customers that paid for their product in the 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.720 past to kind of look after those people. And that 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.280 includes the people that can't access Windows eleven for whatever reason. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.679 Yeah, because when I saw that twelve month timeline to 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:41.840 get that security A mean, I mean, it kind of 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:43.800 looked like to me that it was we're giving you 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.800 twelve months to go buy another laptop or go buy 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:49.319 another desktop or something. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:49.640 Hey. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.679 Yeah, that's exactly what the messaging has been. I've been 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.200 pretty disappointed in the messaging from Microsoft, to be honest. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:04.480 They're using the extended support kind of just as another 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.520 way to market Windows a live in more than anything else. 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.160 You know, people do need a bit of time to 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.200 you know, maybe you need to save up some money 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.920 to buy a new computer or whatever. So that is, 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:15.680 you know, it's a validle thing that you might need 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.360 just a little bit more time extended security updates. We 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.160 think it's more than that. It doesn't need to just 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:26.080 be a way to buy you some time while you 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.920 buy a new Microsoft branded laptop. 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:34.360 You know, Apple's battery gate scandal was about deliberately throttling 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:40.080 old phones to encourage upgrades. Is ending Windows ten support? 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.000 Microsoft's version of that perhaps. 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.640 Trying to get me to say something that I might regret. 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:53.760 You don't say anything you won't regret. I mean, it 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.960 just looks like that right from like your general consumer 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.000 point of view. Because Apple got into a lot of 0:10:59.040 --> 0:10:59.800 trouble for that. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:02.200 Yeah, yeah, they have. 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.160 They've had just been quite a lot of money on it. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.320 It's important to note that they've never Apple has never 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:14.360 admitted that they did anything wrong. They settled the lawsuit, 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:16.719 but I think that was really just to get it 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:18.360 out of the news cycles. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:18.600 You know. 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.800 I imagined Microsoft would take a similar kind of stance 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:27.080 in that trying to move technology forward or whatever, and 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.720 this is the way to do that. This was obviously 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:35.679 planned well in advance in Microsoft's case, but there's not 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.960 really evidence to suggest that it's an intentional you know, 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.120 we're doing this just to sell more computers. That might 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.520 be a happy accident that you know, they might be 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:46.840 quite happy that that's happening. 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:47.920 Yeah, I don't know. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.640 There's question marks for sure, but I don't know if 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:55.520 we can say it's definitely a dodgy behavior. 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:01.920 Very diplomatic, respectives, Well done well. I see that Auckland 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.160 Council is anticipating a surge in electronic waste as a 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:11.280 result of this. I see today is also coincidentally International 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.160 e Waste Day, so batteries and electronics and rubbish or 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.520 recycling can cause fires in the trucks. I say that 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:24.319 in Auckland alone, waste trucks experienced nine fires in January alone. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.720 So what do you actually do with your old tech? 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.360 Yeah, this is a huge problem, and it's part of 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.400 the reason that we're trying to encourage people to not 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.520 just get a new laptop for a new computer and 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.959 to try and eke out more use from your current 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:44.920 one if you can. Waste is really quite damaging and harmful. 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.280 If you buy a new computer, you've got to mind 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.120 new minerals to build that, and you've got to have 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.280 a whole bunch of emissions to put it all together 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.480 and ship it to you from wherever it was built. 0:12:55.840 --> 0:13:01.040 So there's costs everywhere. Environmentally, there are ways to mitigate that. 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:06.559 I mean, you can recycle technology and they can take 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.480 some of the more valuable components out of it. And 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.080 also that's some of the stuff that's also the most 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:15.320 damaging environmentally. It will cost you money often to do that, 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.160 which is you know, people aren't necessarily going to want 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.679 to do that, but some recycling centers will take e 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:28.679 waste for free, which would include laptops, really the key 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.840 message is to try and keep using your laptop for 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.240 a bit longer if you can, if it's still working perfectly, 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.960 so that it just doesn't end up in that situation. 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.720 I've seen all of this being called the twenty twenty 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.199 five version of Why two K Do You Reckon? 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.079 That'sach Currett. You know, I hadn't thought about it like that. 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.560 It could be we'll see ask me again in a week. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:49.880 You know. 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.520 That's probably a little bit dramatic, right, but Y two 0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:01.880 K was dramatic. Basically, It's not like you're using Windows 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.520 ten and then tomorrow your computer won't turn on. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.520 Right. It's not going to exactly now, You'll still be 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.520 able to use the computer. It's just it'll be a 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:17.199 risk to you, to your privacy and your safety, which 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.080 is a you know, people aren't going to want to 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.640 do that. Yeah, it's going to affect a lot of people, 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.600 and it could be a pretty huge deal. It could 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.960 be a really significant moment that will remember, you know, 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.280 for years to come. Depends on how people act now 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.680 if they try to mitigate those risks to themselves. 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:42.560 Thanks for joining us, Nick, Thank you. That's it for 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.880 this episode of the Front Page. You can read more 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:50.560 about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzadherld dot 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.440 co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Jane 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.360 Ye and Richard Martin, who is also our editor. I'm 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.680 Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.240 wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.120 another look behind the headlines.