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Speaker 1: We've had some insight into home ownership and new report

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Speaker 1: from Kiwibank revealing eighty five percent of us think that

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Speaker 1: owning a home is important and two out of three

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Speaker 1: of us think it's essential to getting ahead. In New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: two thirds of non homeowners feel lockdown of the market

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Speaker 1: and almost half are open to exploring other ways to

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Speaker 1: get onto it. Sam Stubbs is these simplicity founderies with

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Speaker 1: us this morning, Sam, good morning, Good morning. You own

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Speaker 1: a big issue here is obviously saving for a deposit

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Speaker 1: cost a living crisis makes that very hard. How do

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Speaker 1: you get over that barrier? I mean, do we just

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Speaker 1: have to wait until wages go up again?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, it's super hard, isn't it. I mean, an

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Speaker 2: awful lot of people and now using kiwisaver as they're

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Speaker 2: effectively their first home deposit vehicle, right, And it's pretty

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Speaker 2: well pretty well sorted for that because you put some

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Speaker 2: money in your employer book, put some money in and

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Speaker 2: you can't otherwise touch it really until then, so that

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Speaker 2: that's working out to be useful. But the problem is,

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Speaker 2: as you say, even deposits are a very large sum

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Speaker 2: of money, so it takes a long time to be

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Speaker 2: saving that. So yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. Either

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Speaker 2: wages have to go up, or taxes have to go down,

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Speaker 2: or effectively we have to spend less on living and

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Speaker 2: save more via a Kiwi Saver. It's probably going to

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Speaker 2: be a combination of all those three things over the years,

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Speaker 2: but it's absolutely tough. You're right. You know. The really

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Speaker 2: interesting number for me, Ryan is that back in nineteen eighty,

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Speaker 2: about eighty two percent of New Zealand, New Zealand has

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Speaker 2: owned their own home. Now it's about sixty two percent.

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Speaker 2: So since nineteen eighty we've had about twenty percent of

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Speaker 2: New Zealanders it basically had had to rent because they

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Speaker 2: couldn't have to buy their home. So owning your own

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Speaker 2: home is the Kiwi dream is just becoming harder.

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Speaker 1: I thought the interesting thing here was sixty six percent

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Speaker 1: of us say yes, you do need to own a

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Speaker 1: home in New Zealand in order to get ahead, which

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Speaker 1: means I mean there's still a good chunk who don't

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Speaker 1: think that that believe you can get a head through

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Speaker 1: other means.

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Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely, you know you've got the sheer market, you've

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Speaker 2: got Kiwi Savior, got investing in your own business, there's

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of other ways to make money. And

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Speaker 2: of course, you know, if you look at countries like Germany, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, more than fifty percent of the population rent,

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Speaker 2: and they rent because they can rent very long term.

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Speaker 2: I met a family in Berlin years ago who was

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Speaker 2: i think to their fifth generation of renting in the

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Speaker 2: same home, and because they had rights as renters, they

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Speaker 2: could live there as of right. You know that they

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Speaker 2: basically couldn't be kicked out, the apartment couldn't be sold

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Speaker 2: from underneath them. They thought renting was perfectly reasonable and

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Speaker 2: they'd use the extra money to invest in other stuff.

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Speaker 2: So it's certainly not the only option. And the thing too,

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Speaker 2: of course, remember Ian is you've got a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of younger people who are moving around a lot more

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Speaker 2: right now. They don't necessarily buy into the dream of

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Speaker 2: buying a home and living in the same city or town.

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Speaker 2: You've got a whole lot of older people too who say,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'd rather actually sell the house, free

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Speaker 2: up the money rent so I can spend it on

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Speaker 2: other stuff that I want in my in my elder years,

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Speaker 2: as long as I have housing security. So that's the issue.

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Speaker 2: Once you provide people with curity they know they can

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Speaker 2: stay there as long as they want. You find a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of people saying I don't really mind whether

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Speaker 2: I own own or rent. The other thing too, of course,

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Speaker 2: is that we've lived in the last thirty years right

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Speaker 2: in the world where house prices have kept on going up.

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Speaker 2: So there's this is some and we've had we've had

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Speaker 2: a tax system which is incentivized people to buy houses

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Speaker 2: because those gains are tax free. Whereas if you know,

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Speaker 2: in theory, if you're stuck it in the share market

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Speaker 2: as a trader or care we save it, you pay taxes.

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Speaker 2: Now is that going to carry on? You know? I mean,

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Speaker 2: houses have become so unaffordable, there has to be a

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Speaker 2: point which the house prices stop rising as fast as

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Speaker 2: they have in the past, So maybe it won't be

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Speaker 2: quite as good in an investment as it used to be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you there, Sam, I just I mean,

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Speaker 1: and you look at those reports from Treasury and the

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Speaker 1: like that say, well and the Tax Working Group that

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Speaker 1: adding a capital gains tax isn't necessarily going to bring

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Speaker 1: those prices down. But I take your point.

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Speaker 2: Sam.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for coming on the show. Always

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. Sam Stubbs Simplicity found For more from.

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