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Speaker 1: New Zealand Rugby has posted a new nineteen point five

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Speaker 1: million dollar loss for twenty twenty four. This is the

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Speaker 1: third loss in a row and it's despite Rugby bringing

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Speaker 1: in record income of two hundred and eighty five million

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Speaker 1: dollars was up seven percent.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The boss of New Zealand Rugby is Mark Robinson. Hey Mark, afternoon, Heather,

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Speaker 1: So what are you spending this money on?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're investing in all levels of the game. We've

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Speaker 2: also also said that we've got an investment model that

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Speaker 2: has been in place for a long time that we

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Speaker 2: are working in the second half of this year to

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Speaker 2: step back and have a really good look at and

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Speaker 2: we spend a lot of time this afternoon with our

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Speaker 2: stakeholders talking about the sheared vision for the game and

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Speaker 2: the opportunity we have to reset that model. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we're really looking forward to that, to that opportunity. But

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Speaker 2: the investment has gone into record levels investment in the

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Speaker 2: Women and Girls game, to the work we're doing in

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Speaker 2: content and digital strategy game development. You know, we've never

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Speaker 2: had higher levels of investment in the community game. But

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Speaker 2: there's also some things with the model that we need

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Speaker 2: to spend some time working with everyone in the game

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Speaker 2: to try and improve.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so are you spare are you getting any returns

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Speaker 1: from this investment in the women's game, like, is it

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Speaker 1: washing its space or not yet?

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Speaker 2: Well, when we say the women's game, it's a whole

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Speaker 2: game strategy, isn't it. Well, over twenty million dollars per

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Speaker 2: year now into women and girls and when we see

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Speaker 2: the increase in participation we've had, you know, over fourteen

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Speaker 2: percent of participation at all levels of the game. That

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Speaker 2: is an incredibly positive return on investment. But we had

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Speaker 2: been very open that it will take time in terms

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Speaker 2: of the pure standalone commercial model to work for the

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Speaker 2: women's game, but we're happy to take that long term

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Speaker 2: view and continue to invest in it. If you look

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Speaker 2: at what we did last year at the Twickenham game,

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Speaker 2: you know, almost fifty thousand people turned up to watch

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Speaker 2: that game of Black Frians versus England. There's never been

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Speaker 2: more tickets being sold. As we go into Rugby World

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Speaker 2: Cup twenty twenty five in England, so look, it's going

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Speaker 2: to take some time, but if the trends around the

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Speaker 2: world as it relates to women's professional sport, we think

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Speaker 2: we'll get there in time mark.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's admirable that you guys are

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Speaker 1: investing in, you know, areas that you see potential growth,

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Speaker 1: like the women's game, like even your endsed our plus

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Speaker 1: channel and all that kind of stuff. But at some

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Speaker 1: point you can't keep doing this right, You are going

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Speaker 1: to have to cut the fat. When is that point?

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Speaker 2: Well, if you step back and look at the last

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Speaker 2: four years, we've raised over a billion dollars in revenue,

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Speaker 2: and if you put aside those big investments that we've made,

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Speaker 2: they were always planned. You know, about forty million dollars

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Speaker 2: into stakeholders in twenty twenty two to recapitalize the game

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Speaker 2: and kickstart some really key initiatives with our stakeholders. And

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Speaker 2: then I think it's just over twenty million dollars. As

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Speaker 2: it relates to content and digital ended our Plus, they

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Speaker 2: are by far the you know, the biggest representative of

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Speaker 2: the losses you refer to. If you put those aside,

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Speaker 2: the actual operational losses for the business has been around

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Speaker 2: it's been just under six million dollars for that so

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Speaker 2: as a business in terms of the way we're running.

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Speaker 1: But even then, I mean business, I take your point right,

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Speaker 1: You're putting a litle this investment in so you can't

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Speaker 1: you know that that might bear fruit at some point,

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Speaker 1: but you have just recorded the largest income that you've

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Speaker 1: ever had and you still can't break even. Even if

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Speaker 1: you take that story, well, well, that goes to.

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Speaker 2: A combination of things, the choices we made. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you look at the loss, if you put aside

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Speaker 2: the investment in digital and content and basically commercial growth

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Speaker 2: and then in an effects issue which are raised immerge.

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Speaker 2: At the back end of last year, we were basically

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Speaker 2: had a break even for this year, so and we've

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Speaker 2: been able to invest in all of those areas which

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Speaker 2: are starting to show. If you look at the signing

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Speaker 2: an announcement of Toyota this week, they're definitely signaling that

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Speaker 2: that improved and growing digital reach that we have in

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Speaker 2: the ability to connect with fans and understand them more

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Speaker 2: right across New Zealand and the world for that matter,

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Speaker 2: is a big part of their involvement with us. So

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Speaker 2: we do think that we're starting to see real green

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Speaker 2: shoots in a few of these areas. We have had

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Speaker 2: second year of consecutive growth in the community game. But

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Speaker 2: as you say, you know, the combination of the ambition

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Speaker 2: we have to invest in future growth at a number

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Speaker 2: of levels, combined with the I guess the historic model

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Speaker 2: we have in terms of our funding and funding an

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Speaker 2: investment framework means that we were struggling to meet that

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Speaker 2: break even year on year and this is why the

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Speaker 2: opportunity for the next six months is so exciting.

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Speaker 1: Hey, it's good to talk to you, Marke. I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. Mark Robinson, chief executive at New Zealand Rugby.

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