1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,547 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from NEWSTALKSB. 3 00:00:12,827 --> 00:00:14,867 Speaker 2: The West Indies have won the toss and are sun 4 00:00:15,027 --> 00:00:19,267 Speaker 2: So Taggly oval and inserted New Zealand. So New Zealand 5 00:00:19,347 --> 00:00:21,427 Speaker 2: or bat first and the first of three One Day 6 00:00:21,467 --> 00:00:24,187 Speaker 2: Internationals against the West Indies first ball at two and 7 00:00:24,227 --> 00:00:26,827 Speaker 2: the All Whites up against Columbia twelve minutes gone in 8 00:00:26,947 --> 00:00:31,707 Speaker 2: Florida and Columbia already into a one mill lead. James mcconey, 9 00:00:32,067 --> 00:00:34,027 Speaker 2: as always on a Sunday, is with us. 10 00:00:34,347 --> 00:00:38,387 Speaker 3: Hello mate, Oh hi Piney, how are you taking it well? 11 00:00:38,427 --> 00:00:41,347 Speaker 3: I see you and your New Stalks B listeners. 12 00:00:41,627 --> 00:00:45,827 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Look, I think the rugby public is reacting and 13 00:00:45,867 --> 00:00:49,107 Speaker 2: it's truly measured fashion as per usual. Where would you 14 00:00:49,147 --> 00:00:52,147 Speaker 2: like to place your focus as you analyze the game? 15 00:00:53,147 --> 00:00:55,467 Speaker 3: Well, I'd like to start with a little bit of 16 00:00:55,467 --> 00:00:59,307 Speaker 3: a defensive razor and that is, like you look at 17 00:00:59,307 --> 00:01:02,627 Speaker 3: this team, it's fully in development mode as far as 18 00:01:02,707 --> 00:01:07,627 Speaker 3: I'm concerned, because if there's four experience in that starting lineup, 19 00:01:07,667 --> 00:01:09,507 Speaker 3: and I call it four and a half really because 20 00:01:09,547 --> 00:01:13,827 Speaker 3: you've got Cody Taylor, Scott Barrett, Ardie, Savier Bowden, Barrett 21 00:01:13,987 --> 00:01:16,827 Speaker 3: and the half is Will Jordan, but the rest is 22 00:01:16,827 --> 00:01:20,267 Speaker 3: about one hundred and forty maybe gaps between them and 23 00:01:20,347 --> 00:01:22,467 Speaker 3: half of those belong to the group and Mules. So 24 00:01:23,107 --> 00:01:25,227 Speaker 3: I just want to say, I do feel like this 25 00:01:25,387 --> 00:01:27,787 Speaker 3: looks like a development team to me, and I know 26 00:01:27,907 --> 00:01:30,947 Speaker 3: that you know, the Wilblets don't do development because it's 27 00:01:31,667 --> 00:01:36,747 Speaker 3: you know, they must win philosophy. However, however, Pony, I 28 00:01:36,787 --> 00:01:41,467 Speaker 3: think our game plan is uninspiring and predictable, and I 29 00:01:41,507 --> 00:01:44,627 Speaker 3: think our attack is dis missing something. And even you 30 00:01:44,707 --> 00:01:47,827 Speaker 3: had the Englishmen saying we're just playing into their hands 31 00:01:47,867 --> 00:01:50,147 Speaker 3: on the halfway line, and in you were opener for 32 00:01:50,187 --> 00:01:52,547 Speaker 3: the show, I thought you were banging on you know 33 00:01:52,787 --> 00:01:55,827 Speaker 3: what's happened to our set moves? I think there actually 34 00:01:55,907 --> 00:01:59,147 Speaker 3: are gaps out on the field. England exploited them a 35 00:01:59,227 --> 00:02:01,947 Speaker 3: couple of times from set play for Ali Lawrence and 36 00:02:01,947 --> 00:02:04,227 Speaker 3: then has passed it Dingwell and you could see it 37 00:02:04,267 --> 00:02:07,987 Speaker 3: from Spider Can. The gaps are there, we're not finding them, 38 00:02:08,187 --> 00:02:11,107 Speaker 3: we haven't got the moves were and we're struggling to 39 00:02:11,187 --> 00:02:14,467 Speaker 3: actually get our best players into the game consistently. 40 00:02:15,307 --> 00:02:19,987 Speaker 2: So do you feel optimistic that that can be corrected? 41 00:02:21,907 --> 00:02:25,787 Speaker 3: I'm not sure because Jason Holland is gone, right, so 42 00:02:26,307 --> 00:02:28,627 Speaker 3: I guess does Hanson take over there in that role 43 00:02:28,667 --> 00:02:31,907 Speaker 3: as a tech coach, is what I've been hearing. So 44 00:02:33,307 --> 00:02:35,627 Speaker 3: it remains to be seen. And of course Wales is 45 00:02:35,707 --> 00:02:37,707 Speaker 3: just a gimme, isn't It's a layup of a game. 46 00:02:38,107 --> 00:02:40,547 Speaker 3: But the one thing that I think where England has 47 00:02:40,547 --> 00:02:43,427 Speaker 3: showed us up big time is bringing their talent through. 48 00:02:43,867 --> 00:02:46,667 Speaker 3: You know, they're not all massive. Marcus Smith is tiny, 49 00:02:47,747 --> 00:02:51,147 Speaker 3: he's there, Damien McKenzie, George Ford is a little bloke. 50 00:02:51,267 --> 00:02:53,667 Speaker 3: You know. There are guys out there who come on 51 00:02:53,907 --> 00:02:58,507 Speaker 3: and just provide either spark or leadership. They don't necessarily 52 00:02:58,507 --> 00:03:01,387 Speaker 3: have to be these big ogres that England have relied 53 00:03:01,427 --> 00:03:04,307 Speaker 3: on in the past, and so Henry Pollock is one 54 00:03:04,307 --> 00:03:07,187 Speaker 3: of those as well. And we do have Henry Pollocks 55 00:03:07,187 --> 00:03:10,667 Speaker 3: in New Zealand and that currently Lucas Casey Oli matthis 56 00:03:10,787 --> 00:03:14,587 Speaker 3: or whatever, and we're sort of waiting for the opportunity. 57 00:03:14,627 --> 00:03:17,067 Speaker 3: But the time is now really because the team, to 58 00:03:17,107 --> 00:03:19,627 Speaker 3: me is in development mode, so you've got to throw 59 00:03:19,667 --> 00:03:21,827 Speaker 3: the kitchen sink at it and you and I watched 60 00:03:21,827 --> 00:03:24,547 Speaker 3: a lot of Super umb this year, Pony and it 61 00:03:24,587 --> 00:03:26,947 Speaker 3: was pretty evident that Ruben Love should have been given 62 00:03:26,987 --> 00:03:29,947 Speaker 3: a shot at ten at some point this season. So yeah, 63 00:03:29,947 --> 00:03:32,827 Speaker 3: of course it's going to be against Wales, But what 64 00:03:32,867 --> 00:03:33,627 Speaker 3: are we waiting for? 65 00:03:34,467 --> 00:03:38,627 Speaker 2: Speaking of teens, do you believe as I do and 66 00:03:38,667 --> 00:03:40,707 Speaker 2: you don't have to agree. Do you believe that Scott 67 00:03:40,787 --> 00:03:42,987 Speaker 2: Robertson is kind of all in chips and if you 68 00:03:43,107 --> 00:03:45,067 Speaker 2: like on Richie Moonger to come in and be the 69 00:03:45,667 --> 00:03:47,427 Speaker 2: and be the savior of this team. 70 00:03:48,987 --> 00:03:51,027 Speaker 3: I think he knew with Lester Fine the Nuku and 71 00:03:51,467 --> 00:03:53,707 Speaker 3: Richie Mooreener coming back, he's kind of getting the old 72 00:03:53,747 --> 00:03:56,267 Speaker 3: band back together. But the problem with trying to reinvent 73 00:03:56,307 --> 00:03:58,667 Speaker 3: those Crusaders teams that he won all those titles with 74 00:03:58,827 --> 00:04:01,187 Speaker 3: is back then he had the best players. He had 75 00:04:01,227 --> 00:04:03,667 Speaker 3: fourteen all blacks, and he had Sam Whitelock as the 76 00:04:03,747 --> 00:04:06,107 Speaker 3: leader and there was no way any other team could 77 00:04:06,107 --> 00:04:09,507 Speaker 3: come beat with quality and leadership and just true grit. 78 00:04:09,867 --> 00:04:12,867 Speaker 3: Whereas out there right now he doesn't have the best players. 79 00:04:12,987 --> 00:04:15,867 Speaker 3: When we play other nations, we don't even have the 80 00:04:15,907 --> 00:04:18,747 Speaker 3: most dangerous players. You know, you look at South Africa, 81 00:04:18,867 --> 00:04:21,067 Speaker 3: they've got four or five match winners who you'd probably 82 00:04:21,147 --> 00:04:24,667 Speaker 3: rate ahead of ours. So and they're starting to use 83 00:04:24,707 --> 00:04:27,387 Speaker 3: them so that the signs aren't good. I actually think 84 00:04:27,427 --> 00:04:30,347 Speaker 3: you really need to go and say whatever, Henry Pollock 85 00:04:30,507 --> 00:04:35,027 Speaker 3: provides that energy, that excitement. We need to find that 86 00:04:35,107 --> 00:04:37,627 Speaker 3: because that was what New Zealand Rugby had over the others, 87 00:04:37,707 --> 00:04:41,787 Speaker 3: including skill level and dare I say it passing in 88 00:04:41,827 --> 00:04:44,987 Speaker 3: tight spaces. England gave us a lesson last night, a 89 00:04:45,067 --> 00:04:45,667 Speaker 3: simple as that. 90 00:04:46,747 --> 00:04:50,467 Speaker 2: What do you think they'll do selection wise for Wales? 91 00:04:50,747 --> 00:04:54,587 Speaker 2: Do you see wholesale changes or do you think, given 92 00:04:54,627 --> 00:04:56,707 Speaker 2: the fact that they lost this morning that they might 93 00:04:56,787 --> 00:05:00,427 Speaker 2: be a bit more conservative. Surely there'll be some changes. 94 00:05:01,747 --> 00:05:03,587 Speaker 3: Well, given that I've just mentioned is four and a 95 00:05:03,627 --> 00:05:06,147 Speaker 3: half experienced players, I think some of them will still 96 00:05:06,187 --> 00:05:08,187 Speaker 3: have to play because you can't just go in with 97 00:05:08,227 --> 00:05:11,267 Speaker 3: all rookies. They are an experienced a lot when you 98 00:05:11,307 --> 00:05:15,267 Speaker 3: look around. But yeah, there will be a fair amount 99 00:05:15,267 --> 00:05:17,867 Speaker 3: of changes with I guess an insurance policy on the bench. 100 00:05:18,387 --> 00:05:23,947 Speaker 3: But brutally, if you consider that Damien McKenzie got us 101 00:05:23,987 --> 00:05:26,747 Speaker 3: out of jail last week in Ireland, that the cards 102 00:05:26,747 --> 00:05:29,347 Speaker 3: sort of fell our way nicely, and I know the 103 00:05:29,387 --> 00:05:32,587 Speaker 3: Iris didn't enjoy that French ruth, and I mean it 104 00:05:32,667 --> 00:05:34,307 Speaker 3: has to be said that in the yellow card to 105 00:05:35,187 --> 00:05:38,747 Speaker 3: Cody Taylor was laughable. But we weren't dominating the game, 106 00:05:38,747 --> 00:05:41,507 Speaker 3: we weren't dominating the contact and we didn't have the continuity. 107 00:05:41,907 --> 00:05:43,907 Speaker 3: So you know, what is the plan? Which is what 108 00:05:43,987 --> 00:05:47,947 Speaker 3: you're asking and I think you can probably just ask 109 00:05:48,027 --> 00:05:49,907 Speaker 3: that or whoever next time you get a coach on 110 00:05:50,067 --> 00:05:52,707 Speaker 3: is just say what are we doing? Because it doesn't 111 00:05:52,747 --> 00:05:54,747 Speaker 3: seem to be working against the big teams? 112 00:05:55,227 --> 00:05:59,347 Speaker 2: At what point in the World Cup cycle? Do you 113 00:05:59,387 --> 00:06:03,867 Speaker 2: stop experimenting or can you keep on trying new things out? 114 00:06:04,147 --> 00:06:07,307 Speaker 2: Certainly next year, but what about know at the back 115 00:06:07,427 --> 00:06:10,387 Speaker 2: end of next year when we're within twelve months of 116 00:06:10,467 --> 00:06:13,467 Speaker 2: the World Cup, can we still be trying stuff out 117 00:06:13,467 --> 00:06:15,907 Speaker 2: on the Northern tour next year? We've got the South 118 00:06:15,947 --> 00:06:19,747 Speaker 2: African Tour obviously next year, haven't we? Is that next year? 119 00:06:19,787 --> 00:06:20,627 Speaker 3: Yea? There's So. 120 00:06:23,147 --> 00:06:25,947 Speaker 2: When do you settle on what you're doing heading to 121 00:06:25,987 --> 00:06:26,707 Speaker 2: all World Cup? 122 00:06:27,547 --> 00:06:29,427 Speaker 3: I think you never say it? Well really, I mean 123 00:06:29,667 --> 00:06:31,507 Speaker 3: it's different when you look at our great team or 124 00:06:31,627 --> 00:06:34,227 Speaker 3: most the recent great team of twenty fifteen. We had 125 00:06:34,227 --> 00:06:36,787 Speaker 3: so many Hall of famers and centurions in that team, 126 00:06:37,547 --> 00:06:39,547 Speaker 3: plus near him on the scudder right. He was brought 127 00:06:39,547 --> 00:06:41,627 Speaker 3: in at the last second, so he should always be 128 00:06:41,747 --> 00:06:45,547 Speaker 3: room for bolters, for exciting, exciting talent, points of difference 129 00:06:46,187 --> 00:06:49,027 Speaker 3: right up until World Cup year, and I think we've 130 00:06:49,027 --> 00:06:51,667 Speaker 3: always had that, you know, Michael Jones in eighty seven, 131 00:06:51,747 --> 00:06:54,467 Speaker 3: right the way through. I think it was you know, 132 00:06:54,547 --> 00:06:58,267 Speaker 3: Josh Cronford and Andrew Mertens and Glenn Osborne in ninety five. 133 00:06:58,507 --> 00:07:01,027 Speaker 3: Every World Cup you can name those guys. And in fact, 134 00:07:01,027 --> 00:07:03,227 Speaker 3: the ones where we probably haven't done that are the 135 00:07:03,267 --> 00:07:07,547 Speaker 3: ones we've come undone and haven't underperformed. So New Zealand, 136 00:07:07,547 --> 00:07:10,027 Speaker 3: I think we still have incredible talent. Yes, a lot 137 00:07:10,027 --> 00:07:14,507 Speaker 3: of it's going to NRL clubs, but that's even more incentive. 138 00:07:14,547 --> 00:07:17,067 Speaker 3: I think to pick someone who is our version of 139 00:07:17,187 --> 00:07:19,707 Speaker 3: Henry Pollock and give them a chance in the black jersey, 140 00:07:20,067 --> 00:07:23,387 Speaker 3: because watching them be so preedestrian is actually a tough watch. 141 00:07:24,267 --> 00:07:26,067 Speaker 3: I think we are better than that. I know we've 142 00:07:26,067 --> 00:07:28,507 Speaker 3: got better talent than that in New Zealand. And. 143 00:07:28,667 --> 00:07:32,347 Speaker 2: Henry Pollock's a an eye catching rugby player, isn't he He 144 00:07:32,387 --> 00:07:34,747 Speaker 2: loved did you see him in the Hawker during the Hacker? 145 00:07:34,827 --> 00:07:37,067 Speaker 2: He loved it, didn't he? He was licking his lips. 146 00:07:38,107 --> 00:07:41,427 Speaker 3: He's magnificent, giving a short way after the game photos 147 00:07:41,427 --> 00:07:44,787 Speaker 3: of the Emiratikno he's a star, he's just an absolute 148 00:07:44,787 --> 00:07:47,867 Speaker 3: boy band start. I'm not sure which one is the 149 00:07:48,067 --> 00:07:51,627 Speaker 3: more West Life I think possibly Boyzone. Hard to say, 150 00:07:51,747 --> 00:07:54,907 Speaker 3: but the one thing is that this England team will 151 00:07:54,947 --> 00:07:57,627 Speaker 3: get better if Hoskins Statucci goes there. And I think 152 00:07:57,667 --> 00:08:01,027 Speaker 3: that's the other thing where this all black selection panel 153 00:08:01,067 --> 00:08:03,467 Speaker 3: has kind of dropped the ball, really is that the 154 00:08:03,507 --> 00:08:07,947 Speaker 3: handling of the Hoskins Stitutu situation and Papa Lei Because 155 00:08:07,947 --> 00:08:10,307 Speaker 3: to me, Dalton Papa Lei was a proven test player 156 00:08:10,467 --> 00:08:12,707 Speaker 3: who had shown that over the years. Here's a big 157 00:08:12,747 --> 00:08:15,027 Speaker 3: part of our last World Cup squad. So to drop 158 00:08:15,067 --> 00:08:16,987 Speaker 3: him completely you have to have a pretty good reason 159 00:08:17,027 --> 00:08:19,507 Speaker 3: for that, and I don't think it's really good enough. 160 00:08:20,787 --> 00:08:25,147 Speaker 2: James as always a great summary from you. I think 161 00:08:25,227 --> 00:08:26,867 Speaker 2: are we done here? Is there anything else you want 162 00:08:26,907 --> 00:08:28,467 Speaker 2: to add? I don't want to cut you off at 163 00:08:28,467 --> 00:08:30,787 Speaker 2: the knees. You've got another thirty seconds if you'd like 164 00:08:30,867 --> 00:08:31,387 Speaker 2: to use it. 165 00:08:32,027 --> 00:08:34,707 Speaker 3: Oh yes please. I'd like to say that we're to 166 00:08:34,747 --> 00:08:38,667 Speaker 3: go down against Columbia and the All White So I 167 00:08:38,707 --> 00:08:40,627 Speaker 3: was really looking forward to that game to sort of 168 00:08:40,667 --> 00:08:43,627 Speaker 3: you know, wash away the bad taste of that England win. 169 00:08:44,187 --> 00:08:46,547 Speaker 3: But hey, congrats to England and don't worry on crowd 170 00:08:46,547 --> 00:08:50,747 Speaker 3: goes well, even though we're eternally positive there we will 171 00:08:50,747 --> 00:08:53,547 Speaker 3: be flipping the desk and provide some kind of sacrifice 172 00:08:53,547 --> 00:08:56,187 Speaker 3: to the rugby God. So tune in tomorrow at seven. 173 00:08:56,587 --> 00:08:59,147 Speaker 2: Look forward to it. James, Thanks mate. James mcconey, huge 174 00:08:59,147 --> 00:09:01,707 Speaker 2: part of our Sundays joins us around this time every 175 00:09:01,787 --> 00:09:03,547 Speaker 2: Sunday afternoon or Weekend Sports. 176 00:09:04,067 --> 00:09:07,427 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason, listen live to 177 00:09:07,547 --> 00:09:10,747 Speaker 1: News Talks at B weekends from midday, or follow the 178 00:09:10,787 --> 00:09:12,307 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio