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Speaker 1: Forgiven do for ce Ellen right, We've got the coroner's

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Speaker 1: findings following the death of Malachi Shubish at the hands

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Speaker 1: of his caregiver in twenty twenty one. One of the

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Speaker 1: recommendations is that authorities run a public awareness campaign to

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Speaker 1: help us all spot the signs of child abuse Safeguarding Children.

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Speaker 1: Chief Executive Willow Duffy is with us high Willow, is

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Speaker 1: that actually what we need a campaign?

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Speaker 2: I think there is. I think a very well designed

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Speaker 2: public health campaign would be excellent, but it cannot just

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Speaker 2: be done on its sow and it needs to be

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Speaker 2: supported by many other factors that we know work to

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Speaker 2: make a public health campaign successful.

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Speaker 1: But surely a public health campaign would only work if

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Speaker 1: we actually don't know what child abuse looks like. Are

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Speaker 1: there people in this country who don't know what it

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Speaker 1: looks like?

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Speaker 2: I think there are people in this country that do

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Speaker 2: struggle what child abuse looks like for a variety of

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Speaker 2: the reasons. Members of the public sometimes don't understand what

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Speaker 2: abuse looks like, particularly if their own chilter pick experiences.

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Speaker 2: And then of course we have people who are in

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Speaker 2: front lane roles working with children that also struggle to

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Speaker 2: identify what abuse looks like. And I think when I

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Speaker 2: read the coroner's report into Malachi's case today, that was

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Speaker 2: very evident that people struggle to actually identified what abuse

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Speaker 2: looks like in a situation that you would imagine it

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Speaker 2: was clearly obvious.

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Speaker 1: Is this when you're talking about the people who failed

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Speaker 1: to identify it? Are you talking about the people who

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Speaker 1: are at Ungatomitiki who were warned about it multiple times?

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Speaker 2: I think both when I look at when I've read

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Speaker 2: the case. For example, I don't think anybody should be

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Speaker 2: making a decision about whether a child has got an

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Speaker 2: injury based on a grainy photograph on an iPhone, and

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Speaker 2: I know for definite people like doctor Patrick Faley would

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Speaker 2: absolutely say the same. So to me, the training would

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Speaker 2: be about the fact, what do you do in that situation?

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Speaker 2: You call somebody, or you get somebody to examine the

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Speaker 2: child that really understands what child abuse looks like, or

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Speaker 2: you get in the car and you go and look

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Speaker 2: at the child yourself, and you've had training, hopefully to

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Speaker 2: identify what abuse looks like, and then you know what

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Speaker 2: to do, which in that situation you know it should

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Speaker 2: to me have been that a s pediatrician examined Malachi

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Speaker 2: to ascertain whether or not that was injury, was in

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Speaker 2: an injury and whether it was actually potentially child abuse.

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Speaker 1: Well, thanks very much for your time, mate, there's Willow

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Speaker 1: Duffie Safeguarding Children's CEO. For more from Hither, Duplessyel and Drive,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio