1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: Let's get back to the news that the Supreme Court 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: has quashed David Palmerhead's convictions for double murder. You've got 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: to wonder, though, why it is that so many convictions 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: from the eighties and nineties are being overturned or quashed. 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Private investigator and former police officer Tim mckinnall is with 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: us high Tim, Hi, either, why is it happening? 7 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question. And one of the reasons 8 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: we don't know a complete answer to that is because 9 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: there's never been since the Arthur Allen Thomas case, a 10 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: review of what's gone wrong and one or more of 11 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: these problematic cases. 12 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: Is it I mean, we are seeing a lot of 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: cases from the eighties and nineties, But is it actually 14 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: I mean, is this just what I am seeing and 15 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: therefore imagining it's a thing? Does it end to two thousand? 16 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: Is it? Does it continue? 17 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: Well? I think to some extent it continues. There certainly 18 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 2: appears to be a clump of cases from sort of 19 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: the mid eighties right through to two thousand and five 20 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: twenty ten. And I'm aware of other cases that aren't 21 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: yet non publicly, that are making their way through the 22 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: system that are like it. Cause a bit of a 23 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: stair as well, so there's certainly an issue there. 24 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: Okay, Now what do you put it down to. Do 25 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: you put it down to problems in the court system? 26 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: Is it problems with dodgy police work? Is it the lawyers? 27 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: What is it? 28 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 2: It's combination of things. So I think there are some 29 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: structural issues we have in the justice system. Like many 30 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: similar countries, we have an adversarial system, and that is 31 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: where two sides go to go to war and hope 32 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: that the truth wins. And that's not always what happens. 33 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: But I think we've probably got over the years, we've 34 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 2: had an overly permissive approach to some police tactics and conduct, 35 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: and the courts have let them away with a little 36 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 2: too much. And I think we're starting to see the 37 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: fruits of that. Now. 38 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: Is it just New Zealand or is this happening around 39 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: the world. 40 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: It's global, so we're not unique. There's perhaps a bit 41 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: of a lag here in New Zealand. There's a view 42 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: that I've come to. We know that the UK and 43 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: the US have the Innocence Project in the CCRC or 44 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: the Criminal Cases Review Commission. We've now got one of those, 45 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: but we're probably fifteen twenty years behind other jurisdictions. The 46 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: issues that we're seeing are pretty familiar around the world. 47 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: And so is part of the I mean we have 48 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: had a real run of these cases in recent years. 49 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: Is that because of the Criminal Cases Review Commission or 50 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: besides it. 51 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: Well, their work is incredibly difficult and complex, and it 52 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: takes time for cases to pop out of there. But 53 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: there are some cases with the Commission, as I understand it, 54 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: that are relatively high profile. But these are the cases 55 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: that we're talking about now. The lawyers, investigators, journalists have 56 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: plugged away at them for years, sometimes decades before they 57 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: make their way back to the courts, and that's a problem. 58 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: The issues that we are talking about here that may 59 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: have led to this in the eighties, nineties, maybe, as 60 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: you say, all the way through to two thousand and 61 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: five twenty ten, have they been resolved or are we 62 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: going to go thirty years down the track and find 63 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: the same things happening to the twenty twenties. 64 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: I think we're starting to understand better what the issues are, 65 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 2: and again they reflected in the global trends. But what 66 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 2: I haven't seen in New Zealand is an attempt to 67 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: try and remedy the issues. So there's a range of 68 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: types of evidence that are really high risk, and we 69 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: continue to expose juries to that type of evidence, and 70 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: I think we need to do something about that rather urgently. 71 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, Tim, thank you very much, Really appreciate your time. 72 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: Tim McKinnell, private investigator and former police officer. 73 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 74 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: news talks. 75 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 76 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.