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Speaker 1: Now, ammunition stocks at the New Zealand Defense Force allegedly

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Speaker 1: got so low that the country was left with just

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Speaker 1: fifty rounds. The Defense Force says it's incorrect information, but

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Speaker 1: refuse to say if stocks have ever been that low.

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Speaker 1: Serious supply issues have affected ammunition stocks around the world,

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Speaker 1: and one hundred and five millimeter ammunition New Zealand users

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Speaker 1: saw prices rise by six hundred percent between twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: and twenty twenty four. Former Defense Minister Wayne mapp is

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Speaker 1: worth me now high.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Francesca, fifty rounds?

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Speaker 1: How likely is it that stock's got that low?

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty skeptical they got that low. In fact, the

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Speaker 2: NZDF is actually denying that they haven't told us how many,

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Speaker 2: and I guess that's good reasons why they wouldn't task.

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Speaker 2: It might be true, however, that stock's got a bit low.

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Speaker 2: There's not good about that.

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Speaker 1: Can you just explain to me what is fifty rounds?

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Speaker 1: What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's basically, you know, there's six guns in an

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Speaker 2: artillery battery. They fire about two or three rounds each

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Speaker 2: per minute, so you can you can work it out

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Speaker 2: there essentially one training exercise and you're done. Half an hour.

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Speaker 1: What is the lowest our stocks could go.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would actually think it'd have to be in

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Speaker 2: the thousands of rounds would be prudent. You wouldn't want

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Speaker 2: it to go any lower than that.

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Speaker 1: So how concerning is this potentially that we've got these

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Speaker 1: low stocks. Obviously we have some obligations when it comes

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Speaker 1: to security and things in the Pacific.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's also just amount of training. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: you get too low, you can't train. Look, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: there's been some corrective action done on all of this.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine it's as low as that now. But

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Speaker 2: with the government's got a defense capability plan coming up.

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Speaker 2: Part and parcel of that will be readiness and reading

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Speaker 2: us as logistics as much as anything else.

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Speaker 1: Why do we use one hundred and five millimeter ammunition

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Speaker 1: when it's a lower caliber than the world's standard and

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Speaker 1: what most people use.

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Speaker 2: Well, bigger armies have bigger formations, they have more depth.

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Speaker 2: We've got a small army really just two regular force battalions,

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Speaker 2: and therefore our ranges are much less. Also in the Pacific, generally,

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Speaker 2: you know you're doing about irelands, You're not talking about continents.

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Speaker 2: So it makes sense that New Zealand is going to

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Speaker 2: have a lower caliber weapon because we've got a smaller army. Therefore,

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Speaker 2: you don't operate in these big formations of large countries.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. But then of course we saw

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Speaker 1: the prices rise so drastically, which I presume is because

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Speaker 1: there's not a huge amount of demand for them.

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Speaker 2: Well, that'll be true right across the board for all munitions.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Ukraine has been burning through try rounds like

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Speaker 2: nobody's business. And that's all types, not just the one

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Speaker 2: oh fives, but one fifty fives as well.

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Speaker 1: So should we switch to one fifty five milimeter since

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Speaker 1: it is use more widely? Would that make sense?

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Speaker 2: I think you need to put a that would require

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Speaker 2: careful thought. It's kind of a different doctrine to what

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Speaker 2: we're used to. Now. Other countries have made the switch,

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Speaker 2: but even with the lightweight one fifty five millimeter gun,

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Speaker 2: it's still you know, literally twice the weight four point

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Speaker 2: two tons compared to two tons, and that means it's

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Speaker 2: far less transportable.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I was thinking it might be helpful if you know,

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Speaker 1: Australia was able to resupply as if need be, But

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Speaker 1: for you it's more of the sort of how useful

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Speaker 1: that that gun is for what we need our defense.

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Speaker 2: Well, complementary roles are actually pretty important for Australian news.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes New Zealand does things that Australia doesn't do, but

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Speaker 2: you know, they're much whether they are a continent sized country,

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Speaker 2: they have a different expectation to eat Way.

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Speaker 1: Matt, Thanks so much for your time. Appreciate your expertise

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Speaker 1: on this.

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