1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: The weirdestone in Parliament as lapel pins became a standoff 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: issue between ACT and the Speaker. Then we had claims 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: of racism over Select Committee jobs, and then Karen Chua 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: ended up in tears claiming she's been bullied. So it's 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: all to do with the ACT Party. In the head 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: of the ACT Party is David Seymour, who's with us. 7 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: Very good morning, Good morning. Makee do chure thing first. 8 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: What's happened? 9 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 2: Well, Karen is, as you know, has been advancing the 10 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: Section seven AA reforms which take out the requirement of 11 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 2: orang Atamriki to put the treaty ahead of anything else. 12 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: We want children's welfare to be the number one issue 13 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: when it comes to Orang A Tamariki's operation. We don't 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: want these reverse uplifts where you can get taken out 15 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: of a household because the parents are supposedly the wrong race. 16 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: Now Karen has copped a lot of flat for that, 17 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: and a lot of it's quite personal from her people, 18 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: saying mainly from Tapatu Mahdi in peace to some extent 19 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: from Greens and labor in the house. I mean, certainly 20 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: there's people in the public, but some of the things 21 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: that have been said about her, that she is, you know, 22 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: somehow has internalized racism, that she's not a proper Maori, 23 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: that she's on a trauma journey because of the trauma 24 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: that she had in her upbringing. She's not really doing 25 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: the right thing. I mean, if they want to argue 26 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: the policy, go for it. I'm there all day and 27 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 2: so I was Karen. But it's the personalized attacks about 28 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: her race and background and her upbringing that really just 29 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: as unacceptable. 30 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: Is can anything. I mean, the public's one thing. You 31 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: can't do a lot about social media, but within the 32 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: parliament when that happens, is there anything I mean that's 33 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: bullying in the workplace, isn't it? 34 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 2: Well? It is. I mean I just acknowledge. With everything 35 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 2: going on, parliamentary drama is probably the last thing people 36 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: want to hear about, but our parliament functioning does ultimately matter, 37 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: and it's important just to put out there that it's 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: actually a sort of self governing community. I mean, technically 39 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: the police can't come onto parliament grounds and arrest and 40 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: emp so we rely on our speaker to uphold the 41 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: rules and uphold the standards. And really what's happening here 42 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: is actors increasingly frustrated when we take matters to the 43 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: speaker and sayeth you actually need to uphold some standards 44 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: because otherwise everything's just going to descend. We don't feel 45 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: we're getting the response, and that's why you're seeing some 46 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: tension there. 47 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 1: Okay, so the letter you wrote to Jerry brownling the 48 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: claim from Kappakinghi and Carter, with all due respect, people 49 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: will be very stressed about giving evidence on Simon double A, 50 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: where most obmitters will be Mariy. It would be better 51 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: if they had someone chearing who is Mariy or Pacifica, 52 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: as they won't recognize themselves in you. Carter says, yes, 53 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: it's better that Carmel as in Sepalone chairs as she 54 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: is relatable to submit. It is that I mean? Is that? 55 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: I mean that's racism, isn't it. 56 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 2: Well, that's absolutely racism, and that is Laura's recollection that's 57 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: been corroborated by three national MP's who were there. Just 58 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: to be clear, the context was, there's a select committee, 59 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: a closed door meeting. They had to choose amongst themselves 60 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: somebody to chair a subcommittee to hear from members of 61 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: the public, and people said basically Laura Trusk, who as 62 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: a New Zealand European woman from christ Church wouldn't be 63 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 2: able to do the job because the submitters quote might 64 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: not see themselves in you. I just it is racism. 65 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: It wouldn't be allowed in any other workplace. I'm sure 66 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: people listening would know if that happened to their workplace. 67 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: People had hit the roof and all sorts of inquiries 68 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,119 Speaker 2: and all sorts. As I say, parliament is a sort 69 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: of self governing community where we as MPs elect our 70 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: speakers who uphold the rules. We wrote to the speaker, 71 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: we said this is pretty serious, and the response we got, 72 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: which was copied back to the two people that we 73 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: complained about their behavior, basically said there is no issue. 74 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: I will take no further action. We subsequently wrote back 75 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: and here you must have speaker, we reflect your rule 76 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: because you know you've got to do all that, But 77 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: can you please just address the issue of the race, 78 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: because it goes to the heart of our democracy that 79 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: New Zealanders can elect someone to represent them and that 80 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: they cannot be easily intimidated a little and discriminated or 81 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: racially arrest And again, we haven't had much choey from that. 82 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: So we're becoming increasingly frustrated, and we know people don't 83 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 2: want to hear about all this parliamentary stuff, but we 84 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 2: actually do think it's important and that's why we've gone 85 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: public with it. 86 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: Where you might be in trouble. Here is the pin thing. 87 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: See I watched it play out yesterday, and you're a 88 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: person of principle, and I get that, and your principle's 89 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: right and the pen and I understand that, but once 90 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: you get down to pins and lapels, that's where people go. 91 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: You know what, surely we can do better than this, 92 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? 93 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally accept that. I know people don't want 94 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: to see it, and the pin thing is a sideshow, 95 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: but I think the point it makes is that you've 96 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: got a speaker that actually prepared to stop people asking 97 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: and answering questions because he wants them to not wear 98 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 2: a pen, which, by the way, you know even Trueva 99 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: Mallard said you can wear five years ago and everyone 100 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: has for years. So he's quite happy to go to 101 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 2: the wall on that, but he's not addressing these deeper 102 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: issues around a member of Parliament being told that she 103 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: can't do a job because of their racial background. When 104 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: stuff like that comes up, that's just whatever. And as 105 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: a result, the standards are slipping and as a result, 106 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 2: people like Karen are very upset by the way the 107 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 2: tone of Parliament is changing, the abuse that's been thrown around, 108 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: and that ultimately is bad for all of us. That's 109 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: why we're taking the stand. 110 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: Good to talk to you appreciate it very much. David Simol, 111 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: the act leader. Then, for all of you have said 112 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: can they wear Palestinian scalps? Once again, I reiterate Brownly's thinking. 113 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: A Palestinian scarf is not party paraphernalia. It doesn't represent 114 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: a party. It's not green, it's not labor, it's not national. 115 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: It's the party paraphernalia you can't wear. It's the same 116 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: way if you have more a Gucci T shirt that 117 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: you wouldn't be better because it's not party paraphernalia. For 118 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Hosking Breakfast, listen live to News 119 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: Talks at b from six am weekdays, or follow the 120 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.