WEBVTT - When ADHD and perimenopause collide 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:01.720 Hi. 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:03.960 I'm Louise Aria and this is season six of our 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:06.400 New Zealand Herald podcast The Little Things. 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:08.239 And I'm Reid's good bradc Good to have you with us. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.160 As you may have noticed by now, we're releasing podcasts 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.000 every two weeks this year. They're available at the same 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:14.160 time Saturday mornings. 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:16.759 In this podcast, we talked to experts and we found 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:18.759 out all the little things you need to know to 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.160 improve different areas of your life. We like to cut 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.160 through the confusion and overload of information out there to 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.960 help simplify life if we can, we sure do. 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:28.400 Has it been run? 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.440 Yeah, no, it has been fine. But I do have 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:39.040 a question for you. Yeah, how's your underwear game? Because 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.319 mine I have just noticed, well, I think I must 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:43.800 have bought all my undies at the same time and 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:45.960 they've all just decided to kind of fall apart at 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.120 the same time. But they're not good. You were in 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.280 Holy Undies, I am, and I just think, at the 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.480 stage of my life, are they like sexy Lacey Hio 0:00:55.400 --> 0:01:00.279 you just got the cotton boring undies? And I think 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.000 that what's happened in franchise scatters. I have spent my 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.959 life looking after everybody else's needs, including their underwear needs, 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.280 and I've just let mine go like it's the last priority. 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:11.960 I don't know are other people like that. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:13.959 Well, that's funny you should say that, because I put 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:15.479 on some licers the other day and put my fingers 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.080 through them and I just continue to wear them. And 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.360 then I did say to my partner though, hey, look, 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:21.840 if something happened to me in the night and you 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:23.360 take it to the hospital, could you just check my 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:25.880 underwear please? Because I mean you still think about that. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:27.600 I mean that was something that your parents, you know, 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:29.399 your mum said to you. You know that was that's 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.440 an old fashion thing, you know, Well, what would happen 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.000 if you were taken to hospital when your douty? 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.760 And I would love to just do a survey of 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.880 medical freshness and say to you, even notice the underwear? 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.880 I don't think they do, but can I suggest for 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.880 a woman of our age, you know, if you're going 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.400 through perimenopause or menopause or something, or if you've noticed 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.360 lots of changes, if you switch a little bit more 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.760 in summer, the Marino underwear is absolutely fantastic. I'm a 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.040 huge contract now are but I do have a bit 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:57.880 of an issue with the bra because actually, I think 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.400 too many of us aren't wearing bras that doing us 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.720 any favors whatsoever. And I'm the same. You might have 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:04.160 noticed this morning. I came in and all I was 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.560 doing was pulling up my brasstraps because they're just falling 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.639 down and my brain's absolutely I run across the road. 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:10.480 I have to hold them, boobs. 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:12.600 We cannot be the only people putting up with this 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:14.360 kind of Occasionally, I. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.360 Go, right, I'm going to go and spend the money, 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:18.240 and then I get there and I go, I got 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:19.040 to put fuel on. 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.240 The car, and I'd rather pair of by a pair 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:25.840 of running shoes sufficient. Yeah, but anyway, all right, I 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.919 just feel like we can't. I can't have a spourge. 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:30.919 Yeah, make it. And I'd like to know whether you 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:34.720 feel better knowing you've got some slightly more sexy and 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:36.160 interesting non. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:37.200 Holy under Yeah. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:37.520 Yeah. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.440 Anyway to down the podcast, we're joined by Sonya Gray. Now, look, 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.440 I am personally indebted to the work that Sonya does 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.359 when it comes to neurodiversity. With her podcast No such 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.839 Thing as Normal, She's filled the gate for so many 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.519 people living with neurodiversity, raising a child with neurodiversity, or 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.040 for those working and living with neurodiverse people, and I 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.960 believe that everybody should listen to her podcast. 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.280 Yep. Sonya's pot cast leave me feeling so well informed 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.600 that I actually contacted people I knew who have neurodiversent children, 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.480 and I apologize for any time I'd misunderstood their child 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:14.160 or underestimated their genuine struggle to get timely and appropriate support. 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:15.760 It was a huge eyepner for me. 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:17.799 You're so right. It was a tool that I could 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.639 sin to our family and you guys were really sweet. 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.959 You were like, I'm going to listen to it, you know, Yeah, 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:26.239 but it was an amazing tool to be able to 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.560 sing your friends and family go, hey, you look just 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:31.160 you're constantly asking how we are? This is how we are? 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:32.639 You have a listen to this? Yeah? 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:34.840 No, it was brilliant. So today we're going to talk 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.320 to Sonya about women and ADHD and why so many 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:39.760 women are being diagnosed later in life and what happens 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.960 when peering miniporse who collides with ADHD. The impact can 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.240 be brutal. We find out why and what we can 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.680 do about it. Sonya will welcome to the little things. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:52.360 Cry. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.280 It was so such a beautiful intro. And I'm sitting 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.680 here so tired because I'm you know, I'm in the 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.920 dip of it, and when I hear things like that 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.280 and what it means, that's what keeps me going. So 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.120 thank you so so I. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.920 Mean, I've said to this, I've said this to you before. 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:11.680 I think the first time I saw you after listening 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.320 to the podcast, I just burst into tears and I 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.680 and you know, one of the things that comes through 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.560 and so many of the episodes that you do is 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.720 the people that you speak to want connection with other 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.680 people who have the same experiences. And that's and that's 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.040 the key thing. That's why, that's why we're all just 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:31.760 so moved by it, because we're like, hang on, we're 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:33.400 not going through this on our own. We're not on 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.800 our own, and we should explain you're tired just because 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.520 you've got so many, you know, jobs on the go 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:41.200 at the moment. 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.360 And I do have family, you know that poor family 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.320 get missed a lot of the time. I think, yeah, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:49.880 I do have a lot going on, but it's the 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.000 podcast is my baby, and it means so much to 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.920 me personally that I will it's just so much work 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.640 to try and capture the nuances because there's so much 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.120 out there about talking about people with ADHD or autism 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.960 or dyslexia, and you need to talk to people with 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.240 the lived experience and bring experts in to get that 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.320 side of it. But getting that mix and that balance 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.000 right and honoring the people that have so graciously told 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.040 their story is just a lot of work and I 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:21.800 have to put that work in, but it does mean 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.640 I'm very tired and I get to you full easily. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.080 I'm glad you mentioned that we're nuanced because I think 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.279 that I'm hoping well. I could be wrong that there's 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.000 a broader understanding by EHD now, but I think the 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.240 next layer to get to is the nuance because the 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.400 span of impact for families and the people affected is 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.920 so wide, and the understanding is well, it needs to 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:49.640 be nuanced. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.760 It does, and each person is different. When we say 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.239 it all the time, but each person's experience is different, 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.440 and it just takes a bit of time to learn 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.440 what their individual story is, what they you know, what 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.880 support they need, and oh, there's so much I could 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.760 say about this. I think we look at sometimes neurodivergence 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.480 as being we need to give people something you know, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.120 they're taking from us. Whereas when you get to know, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.320 you know, I hear so many beautiful stories. And when 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.400 you get when you hear these stories, you know, I 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.560 get so much out of it. That's it means so 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.599 much to me. Just it broadens your world to hear 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.320 how other people experience the world. It is so fulfilling, 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:32.559 And that's why I don't mind being tired. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.799 And there's there's a lot of similarities and maybe experiences, 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.680 but you're right, you don't just just because you know 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:43.160 or have met one person with ADHD, someone else's lived 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.159 the experience could be quite different and how it impacts 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:46.040 them it's quite different. 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.800 And yeah, so this is where it's hard, because yes, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.480 you need a diagnosis in order to get the support 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.520 in order to people, for people to have some kind 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.839 of understanding of what you're going through. But also that's 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.880 just the starting point. And then it's about who they 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:01.920 you you know, who really are you? 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.440 Okay, let's we're going to talk about women in ADHD 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.640 sting because this is sort of becoming wonderful. We're sort 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.000 of talking about this so much more and things do 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.520 you mind if we start with your story. You were 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.480 a late diagnosis in your fourges. What impact did that 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:18.760 diagnosis have on you? 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.880 None. Initially I was like, I mean I I don't 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.640 know if you know, but I scored one hundred percent. 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.840 I was delighted about it, thank you. It was stoked 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.520 with that. But I didn't even want to do the assessment. 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.760 I was like, I said to the psychologists, I do 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.120 not have ADHD, Like I can't be bothered doing your 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.720 dumb test. Didn't say like that, but you know, just 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.160 do the tests on you, which is something that a 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.920 lot of psychologists do for parents because of that genetic 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.600 component is so high. Yeah, did the test one hundred percent? 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.360 And then I just was like, yeah, I don't know, 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:55.560 it's not me. So I just left it for a 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:57.960 few years. And then things started to get hard and 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.960 I revisited it and I went to see more people, 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.640 and I talked to my mum, who said, to be honest, 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.320 this kind of explains your whole childhood, and yeah, it was. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.800 It was a slow conversion, slow kind of I think 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.040 for a lot of us, especially women, we come to 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.000 a diagnosis with a history of anxiety and depression and 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.440 a belief that it's a character flaw, that we're not 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.080 good enough, you know, and that starts really early. And 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.120 so to have someone say, actually, this is just how 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.920 your brain works. Your internal filing system is a bit different. 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.120 It just takes a little while to adjust to that 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:40.000 to go, it's not my fault. You know, that was 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.559 the case for me anyway. So but it's been a 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:47.920 game changer. I really encourage people to explore it. Of course, 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.280 everyone now in today's world is a bit distracted and 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.240 can have sort of ADHD like traits. But if you've 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.960 had those sort of things from childhood, I think it's 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.960 worth getting assessment just to get an understanding of who 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:03.280 you are. 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.080 Was there anything in particular? Was there a moment where 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.160 you then where you did come to accept it? 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.960 A moment in itself. It was sort of a slow 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.079 progression and you sort of you're peeling back the layers 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.520 again and you're like, oh, that's why I can't what 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:23.320 are you laughing at? 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:30.160 No, Because we were oh, like we spent six months 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.839 going oh, hang on. Like with our daughter, it was 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.079 like the revelation moments, and we'd have them one a 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.520 week and we would just be like oh, hang on, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.800 that explains that, Oh my gosh, remember you know, and 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:44.599 it takes it does take a while for them to 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.280 come to mind. Yeah, we were like we just looked 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.480 back and we're like we're just laughing, going, oh yeah, okay. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.120 That explains that when she was two, and when she 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.199 was she was so quirky and interesting. 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.439 Yeah, and I think as a child, I was really lucky. 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.560 I have a wonderful mother. I'm saying that because she'll 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.680 be listening, but even if she's not, she's so amazing. 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.559 But she kind of went round after me. She was 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:12.000 my scaffolding, and she literally and figuratively picked up stuff 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.959 that I dropped behind me and made sure my life. 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.280 I had quite a full life. I was an athlete 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.679 and doing all sorts of things, and she just kind 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:22.760 of wrapped me up. So I didn't really know that 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.640 I wasn't coping until I left home and everything fell apart, 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:30.680 and then you know, all these sort of anxiety issues 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.480 and depression and for years and years and years, and 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.599 the ADHD diagnosis. When I finally accepted it revealed that 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:46.719 that anxiety and depression was because of undiagnosed ADHD. And 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.280 the thing is, though that you kind of go, oh, 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:54.560 I've got a diagnosis. I've accepted it, right, that's the beginning. 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:59.400 Then the real work starts of really understanding yourself. I've 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.040 kind of from the beginning and going who am I? 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:03.840 The are? 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:05.800 Harm moments is what we used to call them, have 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:06.880 an aha moments? 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:07.960 Yeah, what do I want? 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.360 But that's really important for people to know because a 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.560 lot of people go into the diagnosis and a lot 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:15.599 of women you know, who are suddenly going maybe this 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.319 could be it. They get the diagnosis and they go great, 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.800 now I've got an explanation. But you're right, it is 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.960 the very beginning of what can be quite a long journey. 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:30.720 Yeah. And also with sometimes with family and friends, you've 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.560 played a particular role in their lives, you know, your 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.719 whole life, and when you start changing, it can be 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.640 hard for them to adjust because they're going, who are you? 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.959 You know a lot of women with ADHD are the 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.720 people pleases, the perfectionists, the ones that you know look 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.960 after everyone are always yes, the nurturer is And then 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.439 and it does often coincide with midlife. It's like I can't, 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.640 I don't want to and I can't do that anymore, 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.360 and that's quite confronting for people in your lives. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:07.839 I think sometimes, well, you have to that diagnosis forces you, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.199 I suppose to do a little bit of self analysis 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.079 and distilling of the now and the past, and then 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.760 probably yeah, re establish your place from then on. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.959 Yeah, but for a long time, and I probably still am. 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.360 You're straddling these two worlds, your old world and your 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.839 new world because you know that we're so used habit 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.800 to just be a certain way, and so it's quite destabilizing. 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.520 So I mean, is it both a burden and a freedom? 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:35.880 Is it? 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.959 Yeah? But definitely more a freedom. Yeah, I think I 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.640 think definitely more a freedom. But I do want people 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.320 to know that it is a process and it can 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.240 get a bit worse before it gets better. And I 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.240 didn't have this, but for a lot of people who 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.840 are late diagnosed, there's a lot of grief and anger 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.240 and that takes a bit of time to work through. 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:03.480 But I think for our parents, for our generation, they 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.440 didn't know, you know, like the awareness has grown so much, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.959 so I don't think, I mean, do we even know 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:16.360 about ADHD was maybe in the States? Yeah, our parents 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:17.240 did the best they could. 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.360 And I love that story about your mum, just walking 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.600 around being the scaffolding making everything possible, just quietly there. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:26.600 Yeah. Yeah, and that's what so. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.000 Many of our parents did. I mean, I don't know 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:29.760 about I don't know about you guys, but the more 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.720 I've learned about nar adiversity, the first thing I did 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.000 was go back to my primary school and go, I 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.199 wish I could apologize to Steve and I we could have, 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.880 and I had, I could. I could visualize the kids 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.199 who were we just thought of, with the naughty kids 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.040 and the troublesome kids and the difficult kids. And now 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.480 I realize, yeah, and now I'm just like, oh, bless, 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.240 school was just to night me for them. I'm pretty 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:53.200 sure they're all narrati virgent and they just got dropped 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.200 in the naughty box and left there. Yeah. 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.040 So then what happens, and this is this is where 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.560 you know, for a lot of women, it becomes anxiety depression. 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.360 And I'm totally generalizing here, but for a lot of males, 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.839 if you're told the way you are as wrong from 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.679 an early age, you're going that has massive impacts. You 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.240 know you're going to then go, well, I am wrong, 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.360 I am wrong. I believe you know, these people that 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.840 these teachers, parents, whatever telling me that I am wrong, 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.080 I'll fulfill that, and yeah, it can lead down a 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.320 really dark path. The problem I have with diagnosis is 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:33.000 that we kind of go all the ADHD people are 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.880 here in this box, or the autism here, or the dyslexia. Well, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.560 we know now that the co occurring conditions and it's 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.760 just the person in front of you. 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.920 I could be wrong here, but I feel what you're saying. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:45.320 Is it right now? We have as a sort of 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.080 static view, there has been quite a static view of 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.800 these things, and they've been put in boxes. And what 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.160 we're hoping in the future is that that has evaporated 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.200 to a certain extent and we're just seeing it as 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.520 the fluid int mining. 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:05.120 Of in front of you first, not a neuro divedrim 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:06.160 person totally. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.160 And we're all products of our environment, you know, it's 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.080 not just our brain wiring. 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.720 Honestly. I work in a field where we deal with 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.480 the area of cleftliff and palette and for it's still 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.040 I go to conferences and people talk about cleft kids 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.160 and instead of a child with a cleft, because every 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.760 even with a left every single one is different and 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:30.920 it is so frustrating. When are we going to see 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:35.920 the person first and then their unique difference which is 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.720 genuinely unique, next, and then deal with that person around 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.200 that uniqueness, that that difference, rather than the Yeah, I 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:44.480 don't know. 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.920 That's so interesting. And I think I've interviewed a scientists 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.000 recently and we talked about how language is so important, 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.960 and I don't know if I fully understood that, but 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.800 in speaking to her, and also I did an episode 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.880 on gender diversity, neurodiversity, the intersection, and that was really 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:08.160 eye opening for me too around language and how it's 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.920 you know, identity is so important and it's not that 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:12.360 hard to get the language right. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.880 It's not and it's not political, and it's not you know, 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:17.240 being what is the word? 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:18.440 What is the word? 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.200 But I try, I really try hard, and I've learned 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.200 so much over the last few years, but I'm pulled 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.160 up quite a bit at home and I'm and I 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.440 can't like yep, no good And actually it's like it's 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:35.280 not that hard, Francisca, just you know, listen, and you 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:36.040 know it. 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:40.040 Can be challenging for our generation because it's new and 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.560 we're like, well they she he what does it matter? 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.880 I can't get it right. But yeah, I've now really 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.920 changed with that because I understand that for many people, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:55.760 in particular autistic people, identity is really important. It's something 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.680 that has felt it. There's an eternal sense of identity 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.080 and we have to honor that. How hard is it 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.960 to just at least and I think you know, something 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.520 someone said to me is if the intent is there, 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.160 we're not always going to get it right. But people 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:13.880 sometimes purposely choose not to get it right. That's right. 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:19.520 So back to you though, in terms of a midlife diagnosis, 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.920 we are seeing more of the midlife diagnosis. What's that 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:24.840 down to? Do you think is it down to people 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.920 getting the children diagnosed and then they're psychologists testing them 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.520 or are people just more aware and thinking. 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.960 I think it's both right, yeah, and I think it's 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.760 quite unfortunate that there's this whole every one here's ADHD. Now, 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.480 I get it, but it's like anything. You know, a 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.280 few decades ago it was left handedness, and we runs 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:48.640 left handed. Now were they already were? 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:49.320 You know? 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:56.920 So yeah, it's that I think for women, adult women 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:01.880 are the most underdiagnosed of all the demographics, so there's 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:06.720 some catching up to do. And at that midlife point 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.640 there are many hormonal changes, so we can talk about perimenopause, 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:15.200 and I think that is a big factor because the 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:22.440 scaffolding you've built doesn't work anymore because of those fluctuations 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:27.200 and hormones. I did not understand how massive that was 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.080 until I did an episode on it, and it surprises 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.920 me that any of us at the mid life stage 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.000 are even standing. Yeah, because what the body is going 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:40.840 through is it's huge. 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.240 So when you talk to women with ADHD who are 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.680 in perimenopause, what kind of experiences are they having? 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.399 Well, I set it on a workshop specifically for ADHD 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:58.520 women with perimenopause, and I did not hear anyone talk 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:03.200 about hot flushes or libido problems or all the things 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.040 that have been researched the most and that we traditionally 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:10.040 think of as being associated with the menopausal transition. They 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:14.040 spoke about the cognitive effects and the emotional effects as 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:23.320 being huge. Burnout was massive, just not trusting themselves to 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.800 do what they've always done. And I think this is 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:31.000 relevant because it's not just about women with ADHD or 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.880 who suspect they have ADHD. It's all women at this time, 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.720 you know, your body is doing so much that like, 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.360 estrogen is so bloody important, and it's fluctuating like anything, 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:48.800 and you can't trust that you will be the same 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:50.920 or be able to deliver it in the same way 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.720 on any given day, and I think we do. I'll 0:19:55.760 --> 0:20:01.560 be totally honest. The whole menopause conversation hasn't been one 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:08.520 that I have necessarily jumped into. I've kind of been like, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.000 how a little bit woman had menopause for since the 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.440 beginning of time, Let's get over it. And this is 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.520 where education is great and talking to people and going oh, okay, okay, 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.560 and personally, as someone that had terrible burnouts, I'm still 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:29.480 recovering from it. I'm like, potentially there was an hormonal 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.800 factor there that I just didn't know about, and it 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.240 wasn't me just not coping and not trying hard enough 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.000 and being a bit useless. 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.280 Well that's interesting, isn't it. I was thinking about this 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.240 in my way over here today is thinking about the 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:49.640 things that are real. Menopause is real, ADHD is real, 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.359 and that we talk we start to talk about them, 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.560