1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Human error and competence. These are the main problems that 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: led to the sinking of the Money were Nui. This 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: is the Court of Inquiry report out today. The crew 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: were unaware that the ship was on autopilot mode and 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: then they tried to adjust course without disengaging it. Defense 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Minister Jude of Collins with me hime Minister, Oh hello, Ryan, 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: So how do you not know you're on autopilot? Oh? 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: Look, don't ask me. I'm not someone who's ever sailed 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: a ship, but I think the inquiry was very clear 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: human error was the major factor here and quite clearly 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 2: we were fortunate not to have seventy five people dead. 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: But it certainly doesn't make for you excellent for good reading. 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: No, well, it's particularly not when we've still got other 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: vessels that are out there, right and we had people 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: on this one who didn't know they were an autopilot. 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: Do the rest of the Navy know what all o 17 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: pilot means? 18 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: Yes, they do. So. One of the interesting things today 19 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: is when the Chief of Navy advised the media that 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: they were very much aware of some of the lessons 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 2: from this inquiry, and so they made sure that they 22 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: updated and changed the procedures to make sure everybody knew everything. 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: I mean, one of the issues that he's raised is 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 2: that they have you know, there's nine ships and five 25 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 2: and five of them five different platforms. In other words, 26 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: this ship was quite different from other ships. But that's 27 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: not good enough, and they're very aware of that, and 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: they're not making excuses. They're saying, we're stuffed up, we're 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: fixing it, We're very sorry for what's happened. 30 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, but are you confident in that? I mean, does 31 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: everybody on the ships right now know what autopilot being on? 32 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: Looks like? 33 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: I don't know that everybody needs to know what auto. 34 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 1: Players all the people that need to know. 35 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: The people that need to know. Yes, I'm sure that 36 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: they do know, and I don't know that these people 37 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: didn't know, But it certainly seem that in the moment 38 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: the report didn't know. 39 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you wouldn't know, otherwise you'd turn it off, presumably, 40 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't you. 41 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think that's what was really clear is 42 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: that there was a distraction, and that distraction was not 43 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: good enough. You can't simply can't have people distracted when 44 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: they're in the bridge and the ship is right at 45 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: a coral reef. It cannot happen. This is something allowed 46 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: to happen. 47 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: Somebody was asking the captain questions while she was trying 48 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: to navigate this. Would you know what they were asked? 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: I don't know that that is necessarily true, because it's 50 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: the officer on the on the watch was at that 51 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 2: moment in the bridge rather than the captain. 52 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: Kept so somebody was asking the officer rather than the 53 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: captain questions and that was distracting. 54 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: It appears to be the one of the issues that 55 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 2: came out of the inquiry. 56 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: Problem is there so many issues that have come out 57 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: of the inquiry. I mean, who who is in charge 58 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: of staffing the ship and training people to make sure 59 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: that they knew how to use it, which clearly they didn't. 60 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 2: Well, I would say that most people on the ship 61 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: knew exactly what their jobs were and had some form 62 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: of muscle memory about using them. But one of the 63 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: issues that we has been made very plain is that 64 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: there has been quite a significant loss of qualified and 65 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: very experienced personnel. And that's still no excuse. You still 66 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: simply can't get this stuff wrong. I think one of 67 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: the things that was clear for an inquiry is that 68 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: there was a willingness to have a can do attitude, 69 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 2: but there's sometimes in very speedy ways. But the problem 70 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: with that is if you haven't got everything right, you're 71 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: going to be setting yourself up for a major incident. 72 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what's happened here. 73 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: When you say there wasn't enough experience, Were people put 74 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: there in positions of authority who shouldn't have been And 75 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: was there anything to do with DEI? 76 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: Nothing to do with DEI at all. I thought. One 77 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: of the issues is that they've just simply lost so 78 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: many personnel. I mean, we have three ships tied up 79 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 2: at the moment and something called care and custody, and 80 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: one of the big reasons for that is we don't 81 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: have sufficient qualified and experienced personnel to go to see 82 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 2: on all of them. So this is one of the 83 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: issues that. 84 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: Three of out nine are currently basically non functioning. 85 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: That's the one YEP one is getting made ready because 86 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: we'll know we'll be able to take the crew from 87 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 2: Manuanui and get back out. So it cannot underestimate just 88 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: how damaging losing seventeen point seven percent of your people 89 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: in a year is, in particularly when they're the ten 90 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: to fifteen year experienced people and trades like mechanical engineers 91 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: or marine engineers and people like that. So so we're 92 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: not good enough. We still do things that we have. 93 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: Do you do you pay them more? Do you pay 94 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: them more? And does that come in your in your 95 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: defense plan? 96 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: Well, we certainly do need to recruit more and we 97 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: need to retain more. So we've had a big drop 98 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: from that seventeen point seven percent that it got to 99 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 2: attrition to now I think the Navy's about six point 100 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: seven percent, so they're still they've really got to a 101 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: normal number. Now, Okay, now we do need to get 102 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: to recruit. 103 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: All right, when's your defense plan coming, Minister? 104 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying very soon, So we've moved from soon 105 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: to very soon. It's going to be good. 106 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: Judith Collins, Defense Minister. For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, 107 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 108 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.