1
00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow

2
00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,173
Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.

3
00:00:19,253 --> 00:00:24,373
Speaker 2: Straight down the middle of Dry Dickney, scot Please boy, try.

4
00:00:28,613 --> 00:00:32,773
Speaker 1: To get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby

5
00:00:32,853 --> 00:00:36,453
Speaker 1: Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napiers, powered by News

6
00:00:36,533 --> 00:00:37,053
Speaker 1: Talks EDB.

7
00:00:37,373 --> 00:00:40,893
Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct par By Excess Solutions celebrating twenty

8
00:00:41,093 --> 00:00:45,093
Speaker 2: five years in business. My name is Elligott Smith, News

9
00:00:45,173 --> 00:00:49,613
Speaker 2: Talks lead rugby commentator with me as always is Liam Napier,

10
00:00:49,773 --> 00:00:52,373
Speaker 2: Chief sports writer for The New Zealand Hera. We are

11
00:00:52,533 --> 00:00:56,533
Speaker 2: in London and we've left Edinburgh behind, says the All

12
00:00:56,573 --> 00:00:58,813
Speaker 2: Blacks head as well, and moved on for week three

13
00:00:58,973 --> 00:01:02,493
Speaker 2: of the end of the year tour. But as we reflect,

14
00:01:02,573 --> 00:01:06,893
Speaker 2: Liam on the twenty five to seventeen win over Scotland

15
00:01:06,973 --> 00:01:10,373
Speaker 2: over the weekend, what were your initial thoughts on that performance.

16
00:01:10,613 --> 00:01:12,413
Speaker 2: It's a hard game to break down in many ways,

17
00:01:12,453 --> 00:01:13,293
Speaker 2: but we're going to give it a go.

18
00:01:14,013 --> 00:01:14,613
Speaker 3: Yeah it is.

19
00:01:14,653 --> 00:01:18,653
Speaker 4: Indeed, it's another Jeko and high performance from the Ablex,

20
00:01:18,733 --> 00:01:20,933
Speaker 4: isn't it? And hard to know what to make of them,

21
00:01:21,013 --> 00:01:25,773
Speaker 4: what to take out of it. Look, they were really

22
00:01:25,813 --> 00:01:29,413
Speaker 4: good for large parts of the first half. Their attack

23
00:01:29,973 --> 00:01:32,773
Speaker 4: and the way that they I guess their bravery in

24
00:01:32,853 --> 00:01:35,093
Speaker 4: the sense that they were happy to run from deep.

25
00:01:35,493 --> 00:01:39,693
Speaker 4: I think that was really notable, probably a big shift

26
00:01:40,493 --> 00:01:42,853
Speaker 4: from what we've seen from them this year. They made

27
00:01:42,933 --> 00:01:45,693
Speaker 4: big meters out of their twenty two off set piece

28
00:01:46,493 --> 00:01:50,013
Speaker 4: you think. I remember one instance quinta pyre carrying felt

29
00:01:50,093 --> 00:01:55,053
Speaker 4: like ten to fifteen meters, big sweeping movements. Josh Lord

30
00:01:55,133 --> 00:01:58,013
Speaker 4: sets up cam Roy guard Wallace a tt lays on

31
00:01:58,093 --> 00:02:01,173
Speaker 4: a try. I thought him and Peter Luckye really took

32
00:02:01,213 --> 00:02:04,053
Speaker 4: their chance, largely in the loose forwards, apart from Wallace's

33
00:02:04,653 --> 00:02:08,733
Speaker 4: late yellow cards. Up seventeen nil and it's on for

34
00:02:09,093 --> 00:02:12,613
Speaker 4: a statement performance. It's going to be going to be easy.

35
00:02:13,453 --> 00:02:16,613
Speaker 4: It's all money in the bank from there. And the

36
00:02:16,653 --> 00:02:19,773
Speaker 4: All Blacks drop the opening kickoff of the second half

37
00:02:20,373 --> 00:02:26,173
Speaker 4: and pretty much shit the bed the cards, discipline. They

38
00:02:26,253 --> 00:02:28,373
Speaker 4: are on the rack, out on their feet. They can

39
00:02:28,413 --> 00:02:31,693
Speaker 4: see two quick tries to Scotland. Ardie Severe goes off

40
00:02:32,253 --> 00:02:35,333
Speaker 4: and all the momentums with Scotland, and I'm thinking at

41
00:02:35,333 --> 00:02:37,573
Speaker 4: that point they're going to do this. They are going

42
00:02:37,653 --> 00:02:39,293
Speaker 4: to beat the All Blacks for the first time in

43
00:02:39,333 --> 00:02:42,973
Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty years. Murrayfield is electric, the crowd

44
00:02:43,093 --> 00:02:46,453
Speaker 4: is behind them, and then they get back to fifteen

45
00:02:46,533 --> 00:02:49,453
Speaker 4: men and Damien McKenzie comes on. In an eight minute period,

46
00:02:49,493 --> 00:02:53,053
Speaker 4: he kicks a fifty twenty two, scores a miraculous try

47
00:02:53,093 --> 00:02:55,973
Speaker 4: on the corner that defies physics, and then kicks that

48
00:02:56,093 --> 00:02:59,493
Speaker 4: penalty with blood streaming down his face. So look a

49
00:03:00,213 --> 00:03:04,933
Speaker 4: captivating contest, very gripping from an All Blacks perspective. I

50
00:03:05,013 --> 00:03:07,213
Speaker 4: think there's a lot to work on, a lot to

51
00:03:07,293 --> 00:03:12,173
Speaker 4: improve on. But then there is a I guess, a

52
00:03:12,293 --> 00:03:17,213
Speaker 4: sense that they are showing an ability to win, the character,

53
00:03:17,333 --> 00:03:18,933
Speaker 4: the resolve to defend their line.

54
00:03:19,453 --> 00:03:20,613
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a bit of luck there.

55
00:03:20,813 --> 00:03:23,173
Speaker 4: Yeah, Scotland felt like the Allblcks were there for the

56
00:03:23,253 --> 00:03:26,453
Speaker 4: taking and they blew it once again, a very familiar script.

57
00:03:27,253 --> 00:03:29,053
Speaker 4: But there is a bit of a depth of character

58
00:03:29,173 --> 00:03:30,893
Speaker 4: in the way that the All Blacks are winning these

59
00:03:30,933 --> 00:03:33,413
Speaker 4: games late, and that's not something we've seen for them

60
00:03:33,813 --> 00:03:36,973
Speaker 4: in previous iterations of this.

61
00:03:37,173 --> 00:03:38,333
Speaker 3: Robertson EARI it's not.

62
00:03:38,573 --> 00:03:43,293
Speaker 2: And I put the question to Scott Robertson asking about it,

63
00:03:43,413 --> 00:03:46,973
Speaker 2: because do you view it as a glass half empty situation,

64
00:03:47,133 --> 00:03:50,213
Speaker 2: a game that they were leading seventeen NL and perhaps

65
00:03:50,253 --> 00:03:53,773
Speaker 2: could have gone on and you know, one with audue

66
00:03:53,773 --> 00:03:55,453
Speaker 2: respect to Scotland, you know, if they score a trift

67
00:03:55,453 --> 00:03:57,933
Speaker 2: to halftime, maybe the game gets away from Scotland. They

68
00:03:58,013 --> 00:04:00,013
Speaker 2: have to really chase the game at that point. I

69
00:04:00,013 --> 00:04:01,653
Speaker 2: opened up more opportunities for the All Blacks that they

70
00:04:01,653 --> 00:04:04,733
Speaker 2: could have won by thirty potentially. Or do you viewed

71
00:04:04,773 --> 00:04:07,973
Speaker 2: as a glass half fall situation where you had the game,

72
00:04:08,813 --> 00:04:10,373
Speaker 2: you know, close to being one dar I say at

73
00:04:10,373 --> 00:04:12,293
Speaker 2: a halftime, but you had to really dig deep when

74
00:04:12,333 --> 00:04:15,133
Speaker 2: Scotland came back. So we don't I'm not sure we

75
00:04:15,253 --> 00:04:17,093
Speaker 2: learned a lot about the All Blacks. Obviously learned they've

76
00:04:17,093 --> 00:04:19,533
Speaker 2: got a lot of fight in them, but it's those

77
00:04:19,613 --> 00:04:22,453
Speaker 2: worrying switch off periods and games that continue to haunt

78
00:04:22,533 --> 00:04:26,973
Speaker 2: them and they have been lucky that it hasn't cost

79
00:04:27,013 --> 00:04:29,373
Speaker 2: them in the last couple of Test matches. It's cost

80
00:04:29,413 --> 00:04:31,373
Speaker 2: them obviously earlier in the year where they didn't even

81
00:04:31,373 --> 00:04:35,333
Speaker 2: switch on against South Africa and Wellington. But they have

82
00:04:35,453 --> 00:04:37,853
Speaker 2: switched off and you know against an England team this

83
00:04:37,933 --> 00:04:40,133
Speaker 2: week before. Without wanting to throw a head too quickly,

84
00:04:41,253 --> 00:04:43,333
Speaker 2: you know that they can't afford a period switch off

85
00:04:43,413 --> 00:04:45,613
Speaker 2: like that. Because England are a nine straight winning streak,

86
00:04:45,813 --> 00:04:48,253
Speaker 2: they're a very good team, they're a growing team. They'd

87
00:04:48,253 --> 00:04:50,333
Speaker 2: take advantage of that, and I don't think that Scotland

88
00:04:50,373 --> 00:04:52,973
Speaker 2: necessarily had the confidence or the belief to do so.

89
00:04:53,293 --> 00:04:54,853
Speaker 2: If we look back at some of the key moments

90
00:04:54,893 --> 00:04:57,733
Speaker 2: in the game, when they went for the shot at

91
00:04:57,773 --> 00:05:00,933
Speaker 2: goal when they were three points down, there was almost

92
00:05:00,933 --> 00:05:02,893
Speaker 2: a moral victory in a way for the All Blacks. Yes,

93
00:05:02,973 --> 00:05:05,973
Speaker 2: it got Scotland up to seventeen all but psychologically going

94
00:05:06,013 --> 00:05:08,213
Speaker 2: behind on the scorel board, backing yourself, going into touch

95
00:05:08,813 --> 00:05:11,573
Speaker 2: and going for the line out drive and taking the

96
00:05:11,693 --> 00:05:13,973
Speaker 2: lead would have been a bigger psychological blow. They had

97
00:05:14,013 --> 00:05:18,773
Speaker 2: all them all the momentum and they just as well

98
00:05:18,813 --> 00:05:21,613
Speaker 2: Scotland once they got to seventeen, or kind of because

99
00:05:21,613 --> 00:05:24,613
Speaker 2: they were no longer chasing the game, they kind of

100
00:05:24,773 --> 00:05:27,373
Speaker 2: forgot how to play that style of rugby. They went

101
00:05:27,453 --> 00:05:29,613
Speaker 2: back to the box, They went back to keeping it

102
00:05:29,693 --> 00:05:31,853
Speaker 2: tight because they were on little peaking and didn't want

103
00:05:31,853 --> 00:05:34,573
Speaker 2: to blow things out too much. So I felt that

104
00:05:34,653 --> 00:05:36,373
Speaker 2: they went into their shelves a little bit when they

105
00:05:36,413 --> 00:05:39,013
Speaker 2: could probably least afford to and that allowed the All

106
00:05:39,053 --> 00:05:40,773
Speaker 2: Blacks some of those opportunities to win. A couple of

107
00:05:40,853 --> 00:05:43,813
Speaker 2: key moments Peter Luckeye gets over the ball, Damian McKinsey's

108
00:05:43,813 --> 00:05:45,813
Speaker 2: fifty twenty two as you pointed out, and then obviously

109
00:05:45,893 --> 00:05:49,093
Speaker 2: that McKenzie try and subsequent penalty. So I don't think

110
00:05:49,133 --> 00:05:52,293
Speaker 2: Scotland had it mentally to win that game. They may

111
00:05:52,413 --> 00:05:53,933
Speaker 2: learn from that because next time, if they get an

112
00:05:53,933 --> 00:05:56,813
Speaker 2: opportunity against Sell Blacks, they could go in for the kill.

113
00:05:57,173 --> 00:05:57,333
Speaker 3: Yeah.

114
00:05:57,333 --> 00:05:59,333
Speaker 4: A couple of massive defensive plays as well, when the

115
00:05:59,493 --> 00:06:01,653
Speaker 4: cam Roy got on Darcy Graham in the corner and

116
00:06:01,733 --> 00:06:04,973
Speaker 4: I think Cody Taylor made a big tackle at force

117
00:06:05,453 --> 00:06:05,853
Speaker 4: an error.

118
00:06:07,653 --> 00:06:09,373
Speaker 3: And but there were were just.

119
00:06:09,573 --> 00:06:12,573
Speaker 4: Blowing opportunities for scott I think Ben White, the halfback,

120
00:06:12,653 --> 00:06:14,013
Speaker 4: went through at one point and all he had to

121
00:06:14,093 --> 00:06:14,773
Speaker 4: do was reach out.

122
00:06:14,773 --> 00:06:16,453
Speaker 3: I didn't know it was that close to the line.

123
00:06:19,133 --> 00:06:24,093
Speaker 4: Yeah, So so many instances of what if for Scotland,

124
00:06:24,133 --> 00:06:28,213
Speaker 4: particularly with that record and the expectation hanging in the

125
00:06:28,333 --> 00:06:32,133
Speaker 4: Murray Fields and that the one hundred year celebration, So

126
00:06:32,573 --> 00:06:34,493
Speaker 4: it was all on and then and then it wasn't.

127
00:06:34,613 --> 00:06:38,133
Speaker 4: So but you're right, the All Blacks can't afford a

128
00:06:38,253 --> 00:06:41,813
Speaker 4: sixty minute periods that they dished up against Islands, or

129
00:06:42,093 --> 00:06:45,973
Speaker 4: a half an hour periods that they dished up against

130
00:06:46,173 --> 00:06:51,613
Speaker 4: Scotland's three yellow cards playing with fourteen men for half

131
00:06:51,653 --> 00:06:56,213
Speaker 4: an hour. This year, the All Blacks have improved the

132
00:06:56,493 --> 00:06:59,613
Speaker 4: vastly improved their discipline, but it all came back to

133
00:06:59,653 --> 00:07:01,853
Speaker 4: haunt them in that match and Leroy Carter brain snap

134
00:07:01,933 --> 00:07:04,653
Speaker 4: for the foot trap that that didn't cost them. I

135
00:07:04,773 --> 00:07:09,853
Speaker 4: think they won that period ten seven, no more than that.

136
00:07:09,893 --> 00:07:12,213
Speaker 4: They're up seven to eight at halftime seven Now, I

137
00:07:12,253 --> 00:07:15,453
Speaker 4: think they won that period, but the two second half

138
00:07:15,533 --> 00:07:18,573
Speaker 4: yellow cards really put them on the back foot. The

139
00:07:18,733 --> 00:07:21,813
Speaker 4: Arty one, I think, yeah, he's cynically trying to pull

140
00:07:21,853 --> 00:07:25,053
Speaker 4: down the mall for me. Scotland score that, So I

141
00:07:25,093 --> 00:07:28,333
Speaker 4: don't know whether it's I think it's it's the right call, but.

142
00:07:28,813 --> 00:07:30,653
Speaker 2: Legally, yeah, by the LUs of the game it's the

143
00:07:30,733 --> 00:07:33,253
Speaker 2: right call. But I kind of think that that's the

144
00:07:34,173 --> 00:07:35,493
Speaker 2: that's the reward is the try.

145
00:07:35,933 --> 00:07:39,013
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I'm not debating any of the yellow cards.

146
00:07:39,013 --> 00:07:41,093
Speaker 4: I think they're the all fair. But yeah, when the

147
00:07:41,213 --> 00:07:44,253
Speaker 4: try is scored, I feel like play you should just

148
00:07:44,373 --> 00:07:47,973
Speaker 4: move on. Yeah, And so tt he is actively trying

149
00:07:47,973 --> 00:07:50,133
Speaker 4: to catch that, but that's how the game's refereed. It's

150
00:07:50,173 --> 00:07:52,853
Speaker 4: a yellow card every day of the week. So that

151
00:07:53,053 --> 00:07:57,453
Speaker 4: was unfortunate and probably avoidable. So that put a bit

152
00:07:57,493 --> 00:07:59,533
Speaker 4: of a dampner on what I thought was a really

153
00:07:59,653 --> 00:08:04,413
Speaker 4: strong starting return for him. And then yeah, the All

154
00:08:04,453 --> 00:08:06,733
Speaker 4: Blacks are really on the back foot. So three yellow

155
00:08:06,813 --> 00:08:13,293
Speaker 4: cards really really costly and they did bloody well to escape.

156
00:08:13,053 --> 00:08:15,213
Speaker 2: In the end they did. And this is a recurring

157
00:08:15,253 --> 00:08:18,173
Speaker 2: problem with the All Blacks is that, Yeah, the discipline

158
00:08:18,213 --> 00:08:20,293
Speaker 2: has been very good this year, but it comes in

159
00:08:20,573 --> 00:08:22,933
Speaker 2: you know, I think you think back to boro Is

160
00:08:22,933 --> 00:08:26,893
Speaker 2: where Antelent Brown got yellow carded. It just seems like

161
00:08:26,973 --> 00:08:30,853
Speaker 2: there's a few brain snaps waiting, and often it's in

162
00:08:30,933 --> 00:08:33,253
Speaker 2: the same game. You know that one brain step seems

163
00:08:33,293 --> 00:08:35,573
Speaker 2: to bring two or three, and then they'll have another

164
00:08:35,653 --> 00:08:37,533
Speaker 2: game where you know, the card and the discipline is

165
00:08:37,573 --> 00:08:40,453
Speaker 2: actually pretty good. So I don't know what the fix is,

166
00:08:40,533 --> 00:08:47,053
Speaker 2: but a couple of those cynical and rather unnecessary sort

167
00:08:47,053 --> 00:08:49,333
Speaker 2: of penalties sort of touch on a couple of other

168
00:08:49,413 --> 00:08:53,813
Speaker 2: things from that game. Whilst the TD and blindside flanker,

169
00:08:53,893 --> 00:08:54,413
Speaker 2: did that work for you?

170
00:08:55,173 --> 00:08:58,213
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we haven't seen the best of Wallace

171
00:08:58,253 --> 00:08:59,253
Speaker 3: this year. We've touched on that.

172
00:09:00,733 --> 00:09:08,093
Speaker 4: And previous podcasts, but I thought that trio combined well.

173
00:09:08,573 --> 00:09:11,133
Speaker 4: Luck I have very good again from number eights over

174
00:09:11,213 --> 00:09:14,533
Speaker 4: the ball. He made one chopping tackle when Ardie Severe

175
00:09:14,613 --> 00:09:19,853
Speaker 4: got a breakdown penalty as well, and so Tis allowing

176
00:09:19,933 --> 00:09:22,453
Speaker 4: him to roam the wide channels. I thought he was

177
00:09:22,573 --> 00:09:25,253
Speaker 4: very good, very dominant with ball in hand, So I'd

178
00:09:25,333 --> 00:09:25,933
Speaker 4: like to see.

179
00:09:25,813 --> 00:09:26,133
Speaker 2: More of that.

180
00:09:27,013 --> 00:09:30,573
Speaker 4: One point I'd just like to make about the attack though,

181
00:09:30,613 --> 00:09:33,013
Speaker 4: I feel like the All Blacks are relying a lot

182
00:09:33,133 --> 00:09:39,653
Speaker 4: on individual brilliance rather than necessarily crafting and creating.

183
00:09:40,773 --> 00:09:41,173
Speaker 3: Movements.

184
00:09:41,453 --> 00:09:44,573
Speaker 4: I think about the they were up seventy now at halftime,

185
00:09:44,973 --> 00:09:47,053
Speaker 4: but there was a period in that first half five

186
00:09:47,133 --> 00:09:49,613
Speaker 4: plus minutes with our attacking Scotland's line, and credit to

187
00:09:49,613 --> 00:09:53,693
Speaker 4: Scotland the staunch defense, but it never really felt like

188
00:09:53,733 --> 00:09:57,333
Speaker 4: the Alls were going to break them. And I can't

189
00:09:57,413 --> 00:10:04,933
Speaker 4: remember a set piece, set play or just their attack

190
00:10:05,053 --> 00:10:06,733
Speaker 4: I think still needs a lot of work. I feel

191
00:10:06,773 --> 00:10:10,773
Speaker 4: like they're relying on individual to offload or the Josh

192
00:10:10,853 --> 00:10:14,573
Speaker 4: Lord try for cam Rouygan. That's not something that's been

193
00:10:15,013 --> 00:10:17,933
Speaker 4: created necessarily. It's just one individual pulling off a big

194
00:10:18,013 --> 00:10:21,653
Speaker 4: play and I feel like again with McKenzie, you know

195
00:10:21,773 --> 00:10:25,773
Speaker 4: that was It's not something that's been set up or crafted,

196
00:10:25,893 --> 00:10:29,413
Speaker 4: so that that does worry me a little bit. When

197
00:10:29,453 --> 00:10:30,733
Speaker 4: it comes to the Olblacks attack.

198
00:10:30,573 --> 00:10:32,133
Speaker 2: Well you look at the Scottish way that they were

199
00:10:32,133 --> 00:10:35,373
Speaker 2: attacking and it was powerful ball carries and then that

200
00:10:35,533 --> 00:10:39,133
Speaker 2: opened up space because they were carrying harder to contact

201
00:10:39,173 --> 00:10:41,613
Speaker 2: that or I were to offload on occasion, but they

202
00:10:41,653 --> 00:10:44,293
Speaker 2: were just strong, relentless carries and it got them across

203
00:10:44,413 --> 00:10:46,693
Speaker 2: the game line. Every time Bilbocks don't seem to get

204
00:10:46,693 --> 00:10:49,293
Speaker 2: across the advantage line with their carry often enough, I

205
00:10:49,333 --> 00:10:51,733
Speaker 2: don't think. And occasionally you'll get a v as the

206
00:10:51,813 --> 00:10:54,893
Speaker 2: TD luck high they can do it, but when they

207
00:10:54,933 --> 00:10:58,973
Speaker 2: get into twenty two there's a worrying lack of red

208
00:10:59,053 --> 00:11:02,573
Speaker 2: zone and warness like it's and how they convert those opportunities.

209
00:11:02,373 --> 00:11:06,213
Speaker 4: You can, it's in the twenty two it is hard

210
00:11:06,253 --> 00:11:08,533
Speaker 4: to harder to construct things because you don't have a

211
00:11:08,573 --> 00:11:11,493
Speaker 4: lot of runway right like the lines there. You can

212
00:11:11,533 --> 00:11:14,253
Speaker 4: bash away with your forwards, you can try and create

213
00:11:14,653 --> 00:11:16,893
Speaker 4: a bit of deception, a bit of depth. You can

214
00:11:16,973 --> 00:11:19,293
Speaker 4: put in a crossfield cap, but that generally happens if

215
00:11:19,333 --> 00:11:23,213
Speaker 4: you've got a penalty advantage. But yeah, yeah, I just

216
00:11:23,253 --> 00:11:25,293
Speaker 4: feel like the All Black's attacks not quite there yet

217
00:11:25,373 --> 00:11:29,533
Speaker 4: and it is individual brilliance, whether it be a Satti

218
00:11:29,933 --> 00:11:35,013
Speaker 4: or a Quintu Pire. What about the midfield that we

219
00:11:35,133 --> 00:11:37,653
Speaker 4: made a lot. I made a lot of Lester's first

220
00:11:37,693 --> 00:11:41,253
Speaker 4: start for the All Blacks at center. Personally, I thought

221
00:11:41,333 --> 00:11:43,973
Speaker 4: he was exposed on occasions. Defensively, I thought he had

222
00:11:44,333 --> 00:11:47,293
Speaker 4: a handling issue, so I was actually pretty underwhelmed by

223
00:11:47,893 --> 00:11:48,733
Speaker 4: his performance there.

224
00:11:48,853 --> 00:11:52,573
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. I don't think defensively wise he was

225
00:11:54,133 --> 00:11:55,533
Speaker 2: on top of his game. I think he missed a

226
00:11:55,573 --> 00:11:59,493
Speaker 2: number of tackles. Offensively, I thought he was pretty good,

227
00:11:59,613 --> 00:12:01,653
Speaker 2: but didn't have the same impact that he did against

228
00:12:02,013 --> 00:12:04,373
Speaker 2: Ireland coming off the bench. Seem interesting to see where

229
00:12:04,413 --> 00:12:07,053
Speaker 2: they stuck with him next week against England or with

230
00:12:07,253 --> 00:12:09,973
Speaker 2: a moving to the left because of Caleb Clack's injuries.

231
00:12:10,013 --> 00:12:12,733
Speaker 2: We'll get to that in a moment or two. But

232
00:12:12,973 --> 00:12:15,253
Speaker 2: I don't think it was his best test match in

233
00:12:15,373 --> 00:12:20,253
Speaker 2: terms of perhaps what the expectation was, and probably the

234
00:12:20,293 --> 00:12:24,093
Speaker 2: All blacksmidfield was probably appointed by sewny two pilotsu in

235
00:12:24,213 --> 00:12:28,733
Speaker 2: Hutchinson for Scotland. So do they stick with it this week?

236
00:12:28,853 --> 00:12:32,133
Speaker 2: Probably because of Caleb Plaques's injury, they can manipulate it

237
00:12:32,133 --> 00:12:33,533
Speaker 2: a little bit. We'll get to that in a moment,

238
00:12:33,613 --> 00:12:37,333
Speaker 2: but just on the attacking structure. One of our regular listeners,

239
00:12:37,413 --> 00:12:39,453
Speaker 2: Dylan has tweeted it's now be meant to bring this

240
00:12:39,573 --> 00:12:42,773
Speaker 2: up for a couple of podcasts now, he said, he

241
00:12:42,773 --> 00:12:45,373
Speaker 2: tweeted us last week. The team is building nicely with depth,

242
00:12:45,453 --> 00:12:48,213
Speaker 2: attack structure and coaching is still an issue. Any idea

243
00:12:48,213 --> 00:12:49,893
Speaker 2: why the Ford runers aren't running onto the ball when

244
00:12:49,973 --> 00:12:53,093
Speaker 2: carrying to generate some momentum around the corner. It's very

245
00:12:53,093 --> 00:12:55,813
Speaker 2: static and can't play with speed. It goes back to

246
00:12:55,893 --> 00:12:58,773
Speaker 2: that previous point around some of that attack and getting

247
00:12:58,773 --> 00:13:01,613
Speaker 2: over the game line. Is that either using Ethan de

248
00:13:01,733 --> 00:13:06,053
Speaker 2: Grootz and Fletcher Newell as quasi first receivers to try

249
00:13:06,053 --> 00:13:07,253
Speaker 2: and open up a little bit of space.

250
00:13:07,533 --> 00:13:10,093
Speaker 4: Yeah, Fabian Hooley does it a lot. He's actually got

251
00:13:10,173 --> 00:13:14,893
Speaker 4: quite deft hands at the line. Look, I think you

252
00:13:15,293 --> 00:13:17,413
Speaker 4: probably need to mix that up a bit. I would

253
00:13:17,453 --> 00:13:20,933
Speaker 4: actually like to see them pick and go, just go

254
00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:23,933
Speaker 4: through when they look really good, when they are direct,

255
00:13:24,053 --> 00:13:26,493
Speaker 4: when they have a bit of front foot momentum, and

256
00:13:27,053 --> 00:13:30,773
Speaker 4: Dylan's right, that's it's all very well to use those

257
00:13:30,853 --> 00:13:36,093
Speaker 4: forward runners to create that backdoor additional space for your

258
00:13:36,333 --> 00:13:38,413
Speaker 4: your playmakers. But if you're doing it all the time,

259
00:13:38,893 --> 00:13:42,133
Speaker 4: it becomes highly predictable, and so there needs to be

260
00:13:42,213 --> 00:13:45,813
Speaker 4: a bit of variety in what they're doing. And it

261
00:13:45,893 --> 00:13:48,533
Speaker 4: could just be instead of going out the back, maybe

262
00:13:48,613 --> 00:13:53,013
Speaker 4: go inside to another forward runner, or have a quick

263
00:13:53,053 --> 00:13:57,293
Speaker 4: pick and go, or a dummy runner and another forward runner.

264
00:13:57,413 --> 00:13:59,773
Speaker 4: Just have a bit of variety, because it does feel

265
00:13:59,893 --> 00:14:03,173
Speaker 4: like they always go into that backdoor play and it

266
00:14:03,253 --> 00:14:04,453
Speaker 4: does become very predictable.

267
00:14:04,533 --> 00:14:06,493
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, and it doesn't allow a build up

268
00:14:06,533 --> 00:14:09,133
Speaker 2: of speed. It doesn't generate momentum. I don't think because

269
00:14:09,333 --> 00:14:12,213
Speaker 2: you're essentially putting, you're trying to build space, but I

270
00:14:12,213 --> 00:14:14,813
Speaker 2: don't think you're building power or speed at the line.

271
00:14:15,293 --> 00:14:16,813
Speaker 2: When you do that, you've got to come from a

272
00:14:16,893 --> 00:14:19,253
Speaker 2: little bit of a further back start or a standing

273
00:14:19,293 --> 00:14:22,733
Speaker 2: start sometimes depending on how the backline is, and often

274
00:14:22,773 --> 00:14:25,093
Speaker 2: the bodies aren't in motion. For the all blacks, it's

275
00:14:25,173 --> 00:14:27,773
Speaker 2: often you're running at a half step or you're not

276
00:14:27,853 --> 00:14:30,493
Speaker 2: running directly into the line, So you've got to build

277
00:14:30,573 --> 00:14:32,493
Speaker 2: up a little bit of momentum, whereas we saw Scotland

278
00:14:33,053 --> 00:14:34,773
Speaker 2: just that power of their carry and the way that

279
00:14:34,853 --> 00:14:38,133
Speaker 2: they were carrying generate momentum and get across the game

280
00:14:38,173 --> 00:14:40,813
Speaker 2: line much more adaptable than the All Blacks Worth.

281
00:14:40,893 --> 00:14:42,693
Speaker 4: Well, it's just the old out age that you need

282
00:14:42,773 --> 00:14:45,053
Speaker 4: to earn the right to go wide. It's very well

283
00:14:45,173 --> 00:14:48,213
Speaker 4: to want to go to width and to want to

284
00:14:48,253 --> 00:14:51,253
Speaker 4: play with pace, but you need that generally, you need

285
00:14:51,293 --> 00:14:52,733
Speaker 4: that front foot momentum to do that.

286
00:14:52,933 --> 00:14:54,853
Speaker 3: So a bit of a variety would help.

287
00:14:54,933 --> 00:14:56,933
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank you Dylan as well for your tweet

288
00:14:56,973 --> 00:14:59,533
Speaker 2: as well. We're enjoying the responses to keep those coming

289
00:14:59,573 --> 00:15:02,013
Speaker 2: and we'll feedback a feedback through the podcast as well,

290
00:15:02,053 --> 00:15:04,013
Speaker 2: and they goes through anyone. If you've got any thoughts

291
00:15:04,053 --> 00:15:06,533
Speaker 2: on anything we raise on Rugby Direct field free to

292
00:15:06,533 --> 00:15:09,093
Speaker 2: get in touch shot on social media and we about

293
00:15:09,133 --> 00:15:10,973
Speaker 2: four years into the podcast, we'll get an email at

294
00:15:11,053 --> 00:15:14,293
Speaker 2: some point there's on the to do list. It's in

295
00:15:14,333 --> 00:15:16,493
Speaker 2: the works that we are getting to the twenty first

296
00:15:16,533 --> 00:15:20,893
Speaker 2: century and getting an email address for Rugby Direct. So

297
00:15:21,013 --> 00:15:23,773
Speaker 2: two from two on the Grand Slam Tour yep, so live,

298
00:15:24,013 --> 00:15:26,173
Speaker 2: it's live and if you'd said that before you left

299
00:15:26,213 --> 00:15:28,053
Speaker 2: New Zealand you would have taken it right.

300
00:15:28,373 --> 00:15:29,053
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.

301
00:15:29,693 --> 00:15:32,773
Speaker 4: Look, I think Islands is generally viewed as a fifty

302
00:15:32,813 --> 00:15:35,973
Speaker 4: to fifty match, and going to Murrayfield with that occasion,

303
00:15:38,293 --> 00:15:42,133
Speaker 4: if you push aside some historical arrogance amongst New Zealand

304
00:15:42,213 --> 00:15:44,853
Speaker 4: rugby fans, that was always going to be a huge test.

305
00:15:45,853 --> 00:15:48,013
Speaker 4: From where the All Blacks were at halftime, you would

306
00:15:48,053 --> 00:15:50,333
Speaker 4: have expected wanted them to kick on.

307
00:15:50,533 --> 00:15:54,493
Speaker 3: But I think before the match I was very nervous.

308
00:15:54,493 --> 00:15:56,813
Speaker 4: I thought Scotland were a red hot crack and it

309
00:15:57,093 --> 00:15:58,213
Speaker 4: turned out to be that way.

310
00:15:58,133 --> 00:16:00,573
Speaker 2: And it was and it was interesting here. We spoke

311
00:16:00,573 --> 00:16:02,293
Speaker 2: to Ethan deg Group postgame and he talked about the

312
00:16:02,293 --> 00:16:05,533
Speaker 2: atmosphere when it comes to Murrayfield and that if you

313
00:16:05,733 --> 00:16:10,413
Speaker 2: haven't experienced playing in those stadiums, like at Twick, like

314
00:16:10,453 --> 00:16:12,853
Speaker 2: at Murrayfield, like at the Millennium Stadium, it's very hard

315
00:16:12,933 --> 00:16:17,853
Speaker 2: to understand the experience. Even just being there as a fan,

316
00:16:18,013 --> 00:16:20,453
Speaker 2: you can get a sense of what it's like for

317
00:16:20,533 --> 00:16:22,693
Speaker 2: the All blackstick to go and play in this cauldron

318
00:16:22,893 --> 00:16:25,413
Speaker 2: and the noise and the Flower of Scotland starts reverberating

319
00:16:25,453 --> 00:16:27,853
Speaker 2: around when they're on the front foot in the second

320
00:16:27,933 --> 00:16:29,773
Speaker 2: spell and perhaps I think you said that, you know,

321
00:16:29,893 --> 00:16:32,253
Speaker 2: Kiwis tend to just go and sit on the hands

322
00:16:32,333 --> 00:16:32,813
Speaker 2: or whatever it was.

323
00:16:32,893 --> 00:16:34,973
Speaker 4: It well, we said, New Zealand fans can learn a lot,

324
00:16:35,133 --> 00:16:39,333
Speaker 4: could learn a lot from experiencing fandom, true fandom up here.

325
00:16:39,533 --> 00:16:42,373
Speaker 4: And it's very true. We were very conservative and how

326
00:16:42,413 --> 00:16:44,853
Speaker 4: we support teams. We sit there and we analyze and

327
00:16:44,933 --> 00:16:49,413
Speaker 4: we analyze rather than support, we enjoy the spectacle. But yeah,

328
00:16:49,533 --> 00:16:53,973
Speaker 4: generally there's not a lot of enthusiasm and passion outwardly,

329
00:16:54,213 --> 00:16:58,173
Speaker 4: at least where man, it felt like you were carried

330
00:16:58,213 --> 00:17:01,013
Speaker 4: to another stratosphere at times when Scotland were on the

331
00:17:01,053 --> 00:17:04,613
Speaker 4: front foot at Murrayfield, it really was magic occasion.

332
00:17:04,973 --> 00:17:08,173
Speaker 2: It certainly was. So let's look ahead through England this

333
00:17:08,453 --> 00:17:12,693
Speaker 2: weekend and they had a good win over Fiji over

334
00:17:12,733 --> 00:17:14,933
Speaker 2: the weekend. But from an All Blacks perspective, they're gonna

335
00:17:14,933 --> 00:17:17,413
Speaker 2: have to make some changes. Caleb Clark has been ruled out.

336
00:17:17,453 --> 00:17:21,453
Speaker 2: Scott Barrett is a possibility of returning this week. Let's

337
00:17:21,453 --> 00:17:26,813
Speaker 2: start with the back line first. Where would you look

338
00:17:26,893 --> 00:17:30,813
Speaker 2: to go? Would you keep leicsterfying a look on them midfield?

339
00:17:31,653 --> 00:17:34,933
Speaker 2: Would you just go wing for wing replacement for Caleb Clark.

340
00:17:35,093 --> 00:17:36,013
Speaker 2: What are you thinking?

341
00:17:36,853 --> 00:17:38,733
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, they have a number of options,

342
00:17:38,813 --> 00:17:39,173
Speaker 3: don't they.

343
00:17:41,413 --> 00:17:45,053
Speaker 4: I think they will go Leicester to the wing to

344
00:17:45,133 --> 00:17:49,933
Speaker 4: replace Caleb Clark and bring Billy Proctor in to center.

345
00:17:51,013 --> 00:17:55,413
Speaker 4: And the reason for that is Razor has generally throughout

346
00:17:55,453 --> 00:17:58,733
Speaker 4: his coaching career the Crusaders the All Blacks favored at

347
00:17:58,853 --> 00:18:03,813
Speaker 4: least one power wing, and I think if the alternative

348
00:18:03,933 --> 00:18:07,133
Speaker 4: is to go McKenzie to fall back and play Carter

349
00:18:07,453 --> 00:18:12,133
Speaker 4: and Jordan on the wings, I think, yes, Riquewanne and

350
00:18:13,253 --> 00:18:17,813
Speaker 4: Sevice and Reuben Love are all options, but I think

351
00:18:18,453 --> 00:18:20,133
Speaker 4: that's the way they'll go because I think if you

352
00:18:20,213 --> 00:18:24,693
Speaker 4: play McKenzie, Jordan and Carter, it's a very short and

353
00:18:24,893 --> 00:18:31,013
Speaker 4: lightweight back three. Lester's spent two years in France playing midfield,

354
00:18:31,173 --> 00:18:34,893
Speaker 4: so wings not his specialty. But I think whatever happens

355
00:18:34,933 --> 00:18:36,853
Speaker 4: that All Blacks back three is going to be targeted

356
00:18:36,933 --> 00:18:39,053
Speaker 4: under the high ball, and I think you can still

357
00:18:39,133 --> 00:18:44,453
Speaker 4: involve him from the edge. I think Billy's best asset

358
00:18:44,533 --> 00:18:48,493
Speaker 4: is a defense. Hasn't necessarily shown that for the All Blacks,

359
00:18:48,533 --> 00:18:50,213
Speaker 4: but I think they still have a lot of faith

360
00:18:50,253 --> 00:18:52,293
Speaker 4: in them and that's why he was on the bench

361
00:18:52,413 --> 00:18:55,653
Speaker 4: last week, so I think that's the way they will go.

362
00:18:56,373 --> 00:18:58,733
Speaker 4: Caleb Clarke is a massive loss. Though he's come back

363
00:18:58,773 --> 00:19:02,853
Speaker 4: played really well. He has been damaging with his ball carrying.

364
00:19:03,453 --> 00:19:08,013
Speaker 4: He's been largely good in the year. But I do

365
00:19:08,133 --> 00:19:12,573
Speaker 4: worry about the the ragin of high balls that's going

366
00:19:12,653 --> 00:19:14,933
Speaker 4: to come for the All Blacks this weekend because it's

367
00:19:15,013 --> 00:19:15,573
Speaker 4: still an issue.

368
00:19:15,613 --> 00:19:18,053
Speaker 2: It's still going. Yeah, that's Scott on Game of the weekend,

369
00:19:18,133 --> 00:19:21,453
Speaker 2: Will Jordan battling under the high ball. There was other knockins, look,

370
00:19:22,533 --> 00:19:23,093
Speaker 2: I think.

371
00:19:23,253 --> 00:19:25,533
Speaker 4: And without Jordi Barrett. Jordi Barrett was a massive asset

372
00:19:25,613 --> 00:19:28,293
Speaker 4: that they were using to cover that backfield. So he's

373
00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:29,853
Speaker 4: a big loss in that regard.

374
00:19:29,653 --> 00:19:34,053
Speaker 2: To he is. And I don't know, it's probably the

375
00:19:34,133 --> 00:19:38,613
Speaker 2: one thing stopping Will Jordan from being, you know, perhaps

376
00:19:38,813 --> 00:19:40,373
Speaker 2: the best fullback in the world at the moment, is

377
00:19:40,453 --> 00:19:42,653
Speaker 2: that the fact that he is just battling to take

378
00:19:42,693 --> 00:19:45,333
Speaker 2: those high balls. And whether it's a matter of super

379
00:19:45,413 --> 00:19:48,333
Speaker 2: rugby not aerially attacking that way or whatever it might be,

380
00:19:49,013 --> 00:19:50,933
Speaker 2: the All Blacks need to know what's coming this weekend.

381
00:19:51,053 --> 00:19:56,733
Speaker 2: And so looking at that back three, I would probably

382
00:19:57,093 --> 00:19:59,013
Speaker 2: agree with you and go Lester on the left wing

383
00:20:00,013 --> 00:20:03,773
Speaker 2: and retain Will Jordan at fullback Leroy Carter on the

384
00:20:03,853 --> 00:20:09,853
Speaker 2: right wing, regardless of his brain snap on the weekend. Midfield, though,

385
00:20:09,853 --> 00:20:11,853
Speaker 2: I would probably say I probably look to go to

386
00:20:11,973 --> 00:20:15,653
Speaker 2: Rico Yuani at center. Billy Proctor. I think the jury

387
00:20:15,773 --> 00:20:17,653
Speaker 2: is still out big time. This is a massive test

388
00:20:17,693 --> 00:20:20,973
Speaker 2: with the All Blacks. Rico Yuanni, you know, move was

389
00:20:21,013 --> 00:20:23,053
Speaker 2: moved away from midfield at the start of the year.

390
00:20:23,133 --> 00:20:26,013
Speaker 2: Billy Proctor was tagged as the guy. I think Rica

391
00:20:26,373 --> 00:20:29,213
Speaker 2: is a better defensive center than Billy Procter. I think

392
00:20:29,293 --> 00:20:31,453
Speaker 2: for this test match of horses for courses approach, I

393
00:20:31,453 --> 00:20:33,013
Speaker 2: would put Rico Yuanni in the center.

394
00:20:34,133 --> 00:20:36,453
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, oh that's fair.

395
00:20:38,013 --> 00:20:40,933
Speaker 4: I don't think Rico's Ricos played wing all year for

396
00:20:40,973 --> 00:20:42,773
Speaker 4: the All Blacks, so person I can't see them going

397
00:20:42,813 --> 00:20:43,293
Speaker 4: back that way.

398
00:20:43,373 --> 00:20:45,253
Speaker 3: But I think you're right.

399
00:20:45,973 --> 00:20:50,253
Speaker 4: For all the criticism around Rico's performances at center, defensively

400
00:20:50,773 --> 00:20:51,733
Speaker 4: he was really good.

401
00:20:51,813 --> 00:20:54,213
Speaker 2: There's no doubt attacking wise that there were massive questions

402
00:20:54,413 --> 00:20:56,093
Speaker 2: over it. But I think for this test match, where

403
00:20:56,093 --> 00:20:59,333
Speaker 2: I think defense is going to be what was demanded

404
00:20:59,373 --> 00:21:01,253
Speaker 2: of this All Blacks team, that's the way i'd go

405
00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:01,613
Speaker 2: this week.

406
00:21:01,733 --> 00:21:05,453
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they'll go Proctor and Rico on the bench.

407
00:21:06,413 --> 00:21:08,053
Speaker 3: I can't say Proctor starting raccoons the bench.

408
00:21:08,133 --> 00:21:11,973
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't see them what Sevaresa or Reuben Lover

409
00:21:12,093 --> 00:21:14,333
Speaker 4: can't I don't really Or Antonine A. Brown, I don't

410
00:21:14,373 --> 00:21:16,453
Speaker 4: really feel like they're on the conversation based on the

411
00:21:16,493 --> 00:21:19,253
Speaker 4: way Razers selected this team in recent weeks.

412
00:21:19,053 --> 00:21:21,573
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I mean, you could build the

413
00:21:21,653 --> 00:21:25,293
Speaker 2: argument for a Ruben Love if Damie McKenzie were to

414
00:21:25,333 --> 00:21:27,333
Speaker 2: come into the starting team, but I just don't see that.

415
00:21:27,453 --> 00:21:30,173
Speaker 2: And I think everyone's going on with Dame McKenzie great

416
00:21:30,733 --> 00:21:33,693
Speaker 2: off the bench now deserves a chance to start. We

417
00:21:33,813 --> 00:21:36,733
Speaker 2: still can't get it through our heads. People. The bench

418
00:21:36,853 --> 00:21:40,413
Speaker 2: is vitally important in test matches, and it's not a case,

419
00:21:40,493 --> 00:21:43,213
Speaker 2: I don't think anymore of playing well on the bench.

420
00:21:43,293 --> 00:21:45,413
Speaker 2: You earn a chance to start playing well on the bench.

421
00:21:46,173 --> 00:21:47,933
Speaker 2: That's not a war. To start playing well on the

422
00:21:47,933 --> 00:21:50,973
Speaker 2: bench is a basically a sign the bench is working

423
00:21:51,453 --> 00:21:53,133
Speaker 2: and you're turning the game. That's what you want out

424
00:21:53,173 --> 00:21:55,333
Speaker 2: of the bench, and that's the warrior I had by

425
00:21:55,493 --> 00:21:58,333
Speaker 2: moving Wallace a TD into the run on side is

426
00:21:58,453 --> 00:22:01,453
Speaker 2: that you're overvaluing the first fifty minutes compared to the

427
00:22:01,533 --> 00:22:03,293
Speaker 2: last thirty. And I get there's more time in the

428
00:22:03,333 --> 00:22:05,173
Speaker 2: first fifty, could be the last thirty, but those last

429
00:22:05,213 --> 00:22:07,333
Speaker 2: thirty I saw vital in a Test match and it's

430
00:22:07,333 --> 00:22:10,853
Speaker 2: where it's decided. And we saw the All Blacks come

431
00:22:10,933 --> 00:22:13,693
Speaker 2: home in the last twenty in Chicago and again probably

432
00:22:13,693 --> 00:22:16,133
Speaker 2: the last ten, but we didn't get the impact out

433
00:22:16,133 --> 00:22:19,573
Speaker 2: of the All Blacks bench bar McKenzie. You know Deepycreef,

434
00:22:19,573 --> 00:22:21,053
Speaker 2: he came on for eight minutes at the end of

435
00:22:21,093 --> 00:22:24,573
Speaker 2: the game. Billy Procter was fearly anonymous when he came on.

436
00:22:24,813 --> 00:22:26,293
Speaker 2: Of course he's right, and didn't even get on.

437
00:22:27,573 --> 00:22:30,493
Speaker 3: So I think the front rowers are performing really well.

438
00:22:30,533 --> 00:22:36,733
Speaker 4: Pasilio, Tossi Summersony Takyaho and Mighty Williams. Massive impact from

439
00:22:36,773 --> 00:22:38,413
Speaker 4: those guys are really delivering yep.

440
00:22:38,493 --> 00:22:41,733
Speaker 2: So the front row yep. And McKenzie absolute tick. But

441
00:22:42,813 --> 00:22:46,173
Speaker 2: I think you keep McKenzie in the benchroll because that's

442
00:22:46,213 --> 00:22:48,773
Speaker 2: what you want him running at tied defenses in the

443
00:22:48,853 --> 00:22:50,413
Speaker 2: last thirty minutes of the game.

444
00:22:50,573 --> 00:22:51,173
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

445
00:22:51,213 --> 00:22:54,453
Speaker 4: I think Look, Damien's played his best rugby for the

446
00:22:54,453 --> 00:22:57,773
Speaker 4: All Blacks certainly this year at full back, and I

447
00:22:57,813 --> 00:23:02,213
Speaker 4: think he probably does deserve a start, but yeah, bringing

448
00:23:02,293 --> 00:23:05,853
Speaker 4: him on the last twenty half an hour as he's

449
00:23:06,573 --> 00:23:09,933
Speaker 4: the best bench assets from a back's perspective and world

450
00:23:09,973 --> 00:23:13,613
Speaker 4: rugby right now, so I think I think you leave

451
00:23:13,693 --> 00:23:16,813
Speaker 4: him there. Look, I think Scott Barrett plays and that's

452
00:23:16,853 --> 00:23:18,533
Speaker 4: a big end for the All Blacks because one of

453
00:23:18,533 --> 00:23:21,773
Speaker 4: the big concerns I have this week is how much

454
00:23:21,933 --> 00:23:24,413
Speaker 4: gas do the All Blacks have in the tank playing

455
00:23:24,493 --> 00:23:28,213
Speaker 4: for half an hour with fourteen men. I can vividly

456
00:23:28,293 --> 00:23:31,093
Speaker 4: picture them now, hands on hips, out on their feet

457
00:23:32,653 --> 00:23:34,813
Speaker 4: at various times in that Scottish match. I think that

458
00:23:34,893 --> 00:23:36,933
Speaker 4: will take a lot out of them. This is their

459
00:23:37,013 --> 00:23:39,133
Speaker 4: third big test in a row. England are a big

460
00:23:39,293 --> 00:23:43,813
Speaker 4: physical pack, so I do have concerns from a fatigue perspective.

461
00:23:44,413 --> 00:23:47,253
Speaker 4: So Scott Barrett coming into the Type five pushing Josh

462
00:23:47,333 --> 00:23:52,053
Speaker 4: load to the bench, I think that's vital. So two

463
00:23:52,133 --> 00:23:56,493
Speaker 4: questions for you, do you have concerns from a fatigue

464
00:23:56,493 --> 00:24:02,093
Speaker 4: point of view? And with Scott Barrett coming in, what

465
00:24:02,213 --> 00:24:06,973
Speaker 4: do you do with Simon Parker? So he was dropped

466
00:24:07,053 --> 00:24:10,333
Speaker 4: essentially last week loss of TT with dup c Carifi

467
00:24:10,413 --> 00:24:13,013
Speaker 4: coming on the bench. Are they holding him back for

468
00:24:13,093 --> 00:24:13,893
Speaker 4: this England Test.

469
00:24:14,413 --> 00:24:16,373
Speaker 2: I don't think it's worth giving up on Simon Parker

470
00:24:16,813 --> 00:24:18,253
Speaker 2: just yet. I'm not saying they have given up on

471
00:24:18,333 --> 00:24:21,773
Speaker 2: Simon Parker. They made that change for the weekend. I

472
00:24:21,893 --> 00:24:25,533
Speaker 2: think after a pretty good start in his career, he's

473
00:24:25,573 --> 00:24:27,853
Speaker 2: maybe tailed off a little bit, but defensively wise he

474
00:24:27,973 --> 00:24:30,453
Speaker 2: is good and I think you need that body this week,

475
00:24:30,573 --> 00:24:33,613
Speaker 2: just targeting anything that moves from the English pack.

476
00:24:33,693 --> 00:24:34,413
Speaker 3: So you're starting him.

477
00:24:34,453 --> 00:24:37,293
Speaker 2: I'm starting. I'm starting sign Parker this week and putting

478
00:24:37,293 --> 00:24:39,413
Speaker 2: it and again going back to my bench point putting

479
00:24:39,493 --> 00:24:40,493
Speaker 2: Wallace a TD on the bench.

480
00:24:41,333 --> 00:24:43,653
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm leaving the tt out there because I want

481
00:24:43,773 --> 00:24:47,253
Speaker 4: him to play fifty sixty minutes. I was really impressed

482
00:24:47,293 --> 00:24:48,773
Speaker 4: by what he did in the first half and I

483
00:24:48,813 --> 00:24:52,013
Speaker 4: think back to last year I took in him. He

484
00:24:53,093 --> 00:24:56,333
Speaker 4: put the world right beyond notice with a phenomenal performance.

485
00:24:56,413 --> 00:24:59,093
Speaker 4: So I want the most out of the tt A.

486
00:24:59,213 --> 00:25:02,893
Speaker 4: From a minute's point of view, I think there's an

487
00:25:02,973 --> 00:25:06,853
Speaker 4: argument to bring Simon Parker potentially onto the bench. I

488
00:25:07,533 --> 00:25:11,013
Speaker 4: haven't seen a lot of impact out of careffee he's

489
00:25:11,053 --> 00:25:13,013
Speaker 4: there to come on and get you a game changing

490
00:25:13,093 --> 00:25:16,493
Speaker 4: turnover or target the breakdown. But England are a massive

491
00:25:16,493 --> 00:25:19,693
Speaker 4: physical pack and I really think he might struggle with

492
00:25:19,773 --> 00:25:20,173
Speaker 4: that record.

493
00:25:20,253 --> 00:25:23,253
Speaker 2: I could see the argument with Scotland. The way that

494
00:25:23,333 --> 00:25:27,733
Speaker 2: they traditionally attack leaves open more opportunities for breakdown turn

495
00:25:27,733 --> 00:25:30,893
Speaker 2: nerves now didn't really happen in that regard because of

496
00:25:30,933 --> 00:25:32,973
Speaker 2: the way the game had flowed to that point and

497
00:25:33,013 --> 00:25:34,813
Speaker 2: where the All Blacks were when Karifer came on and

498
00:25:34,893 --> 00:25:37,373
Speaker 2: what the seventy second minutes. So hard to judge on

499
00:25:37,453 --> 00:25:38,933
Speaker 2: that regard, but I don't think this is the test

500
00:25:38,973 --> 00:25:40,493
Speaker 2: match for Plus Cafe.

501
00:25:40,493 --> 00:25:41,413
Speaker 3: No, I agree.

502
00:25:41,693 --> 00:25:43,693
Speaker 4: Worth noting Luke Jacobson, who hasn't played for the All

503
00:25:43,733 --> 00:25:47,653
Speaker 4: Blacks all year, is also out with concussion after taking

504
00:25:47,693 --> 00:25:49,653
Speaker 4: a head knock for the All Blacks fifteen.

505
00:25:49,813 --> 00:25:52,213
Speaker 2: Just on that question of fatigue, Cam roy Guard has

506
00:25:52,253 --> 00:25:57,053
Speaker 2: now played seventy eight minutes in Chicago in eighty minutes

507
00:25:57,133 --> 00:25:57,933
Speaker 2: at Murrayfield.

508
00:25:58,733 --> 00:26:02,333
Speaker 4: That worries me less than some of the full pack

509
00:26:02,373 --> 00:26:05,493
Speaker 4: because he hasn't played a lot this year and he's

510
00:26:05,573 --> 00:26:06,573
Speaker 4: consistently the fittest.

511
00:26:06,693 --> 00:26:07,933
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very very fair.

512
00:26:07,853 --> 00:26:11,453
Speaker 4: That the Yo Yosi was, if not top pushing Boden

513
00:26:11,493 --> 00:26:15,573
Speaker 4: Barrett for the record score. So yeah, big minutes, but

514
00:26:16,173 --> 00:26:18,133
Speaker 4: he's been out a lot this year as well.

515
00:26:18,173 --> 00:26:21,453
Speaker 2: But what does it say about their faith in Courtiz

516
00:26:21,493 --> 00:26:23,493
Speaker 2: Ratam and now not saying you, I admire the fact

517
00:26:23,493 --> 00:26:25,493
Speaker 2: that they kept can Roy guard out there against Silent

518
00:26:25,973 --> 00:26:28,213
Speaker 2: and again against Swotland. I think he is by far

519
00:26:28,293 --> 00:26:31,893
Speaker 2: the best half back in New Zealand and certainly in

520
00:26:31,973 --> 00:26:35,293
Speaker 2: the conversation for top two or three in the world

521
00:26:35,493 --> 00:26:37,893
Speaker 2: at the moment. But what does it say about Courtiers

522
00:26:37,933 --> 00:26:43,053
Speaker 2: Ratsima that they traditionally have always gone for and again

523
00:26:43,173 --> 00:26:45,893
Speaker 2: throwing not throwing away Test caps but bringing on players

524
00:26:46,213 --> 00:26:48,173
Speaker 2: for the sake of it. I don't like, but you've

525
00:26:48,173 --> 00:26:50,493
Speaker 2: traditionally gone for that change up half back with fifteen

526
00:26:50,533 --> 00:26:53,653
Speaker 2: to twenty minutes to go. Can Roy Guards playing excellent

527
00:26:53,733 --> 00:26:56,133
Speaker 2: rugby at the moment, But what does it say that

528
00:26:56,213 --> 00:26:59,573
Speaker 2: they're perhaps not wanting to bring on Ratsima and changing

529
00:27:00,173 --> 00:27:02,493
Speaker 2: the pace of the game or the direction of the

530
00:27:02,493 --> 00:27:03,133
Speaker 2: game at that point.

531
00:27:03,813 --> 00:27:05,093
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it says two things.

532
00:27:05,133 --> 00:27:08,573
Speaker 4: It says can royguards and another straightest fear to to

533
00:27:09,013 --> 00:27:12,013
Speaker 4: any other hard half back in that all black squad currently,

534
00:27:13,013 --> 00:27:16,093
Speaker 4: you know, Finlay Christie and Cortes lastm just aren't within

535
00:27:16,213 --> 00:27:20,853
Speaker 4: touching distance of him regards scored twelve tries since making

536
00:27:20,893 --> 00:27:24,453
Speaker 4: his debut in July twenty twenty three, more than any

537
00:27:24,493 --> 00:27:27,213
Speaker 4: other half back in men's international rugby in that period.

538
00:27:27,613 --> 00:27:30,213
Speaker 4: Neil Black's also when he plays. When he's in the

539
00:27:30,253 --> 00:27:32,573
Speaker 4: twenty three have won over ninety percent of their tests

540
00:27:33,053 --> 00:27:37,093
Speaker 4: under Razor, and I think otherwise they might be at

541
00:27:38,613 --> 00:27:43,053
Speaker 4: late seventies. So his influence on that team, for me,

542
00:27:43,253 --> 00:27:47,373
Speaker 4: is greater than anyone else. So I'm happy that they're

543
00:27:47,373 --> 00:27:48,093
Speaker 4: playing in eighty minutes.

544
00:27:48,133 --> 00:27:48,893
Speaker 2: But you're but you're right.

545
00:27:49,653 --> 00:27:52,373
Speaker 4: It does say that nobody's within touching distance. And look,

546
00:27:52,373 --> 00:27:55,653
Speaker 4: I think that may change if Noah Hotham was in

547
00:27:55,733 --> 00:27:58,693
Speaker 4: the squad but casting further ahead, if you could go

548
00:27:59,053 --> 00:28:02,653
Speaker 4: Dylan Pledger, he could come on and further up the tempo.

549
00:28:03,213 --> 00:28:06,173
Speaker 3: But that's probably at least a year away.

550
00:28:06,373 --> 00:28:10,853
Speaker 4: Really, I think from the sort of scenario, Roy Guard

551
00:28:11,013 --> 00:28:12,533
Speaker 4: is just such a lethal west set.

552
00:28:12,573 --> 00:28:14,253
Speaker 2: If you can play eighty minutes, then why not keep

553
00:28:14,293 --> 00:28:14,693
Speaker 2: him out there?

554
00:28:14,733 --> 00:28:14,973
Speaker 3: Why not?

555
00:28:15,933 --> 00:28:18,213
Speaker 2: Here's a take for you twenty eight minutes into the podcast.

556
00:28:20,653 --> 00:28:22,133
Speaker 2: Should I say this a lot? I'm gonna say it.

557
00:28:22,573 --> 00:28:24,453
Speaker 2: Could you move can roy This is not a this

558
00:28:24,893 --> 00:28:27,333
Speaker 2: weekend discussion, but if he's going to get an eighty

559
00:28:27,373 --> 00:28:29,293
Speaker 2: minute half back, could you keep him out on the

560
00:28:29,373 --> 00:28:33,413
Speaker 2: park and bring on a Dylan Pledge Noah Hotham type

561
00:28:33,693 --> 00:28:36,693
Speaker 2: and move a roy Guard into say a ten position

562
00:28:36,813 --> 00:28:39,933
Speaker 2: or even on the wing lace in a test match

563
00:28:40,053 --> 00:28:41,653
Speaker 2: if he's still having an influence on the game. But

564
00:28:41,733 --> 00:28:44,813
Speaker 2: you do want that dynamic, quick reception out of half back,

565
00:28:44,853 --> 00:28:46,933
Speaker 2: but Royga can still have an influence. Is there a way?

566
00:28:48,293 --> 00:28:50,053
Speaker 2: And again people are going, what the fuck is this

567
00:28:50,133 --> 00:28:52,573
Speaker 2: guy talking about? But could you have them both out

568
00:28:52,613 --> 00:28:53,453
Speaker 2: on the park at the moment?

569
00:28:54,213 --> 00:28:54,893
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

570
00:28:55,733 --> 00:29:00,053
Speaker 2: I was workshopping this take with our friend Louis Herman

571
00:29:00,053 --> 00:29:00,813
Speaker 2: Watt earlier today.

572
00:29:00,933 --> 00:29:02,213
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think so.

573
00:29:03,653 --> 00:29:06,373
Speaker 4: Look if needs must and you lose a number of backs,

574
00:29:06,413 --> 00:29:10,413
Speaker 4: I think he could potentially yeah, cover wing, But I

575
00:29:10,493 --> 00:29:15,293
Speaker 4: thank you there's this specialist for a reason. Yeah, and

576
00:29:16,453 --> 00:29:18,853
Speaker 4: I don't thinks played. He might have played a bit

577
00:29:18,893 --> 00:29:20,653
Speaker 4: of ten for the Canes at one point, but.

578
00:29:20,733 --> 00:29:23,053
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was Isaac Boss whould work with

579
00:29:23,133 --> 00:29:25,413
Speaker 2: him at counties level on this A year or so on.

580
00:29:25,493 --> 00:29:30,093
Speaker 2: Sky City believes that Ruga could play ten ye just

581
00:29:30,253 --> 00:29:30,693
Speaker 2: an idea.

582
00:29:30,893 --> 00:29:33,413
Speaker 3: He probably could, but not for the All Blacks.

583
00:29:33,493 --> 00:29:36,133
Speaker 2: Okay, I will take quick break here on Rugby Direct.

584
00:29:36,173 --> 00:29:38,813
Speaker 2: Come back with the thoughts on the other games that

585
00:29:38,893 --> 00:29:41,493
Speaker 2: went around the rugby stratosphere over the weekend.

586
00:29:42,333 --> 00:29:46,373
Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.

587
00:29:49,693 --> 00:29:57,653
Speaker 2: Try ten sixty every tackle, Get up again before I'm

588
00:29:57,733 --> 00:30:02,173
Speaker 2: not It's Rugby Direct. Go back with Rugby Direct. Fe

589
00:30:02,213 --> 00:30:05,013
Speaker 2: more thoughts on where the All Blacks and England might

590
00:30:05,093 --> 00:30:07,333
Speaker 2: go in a moment or two. But let's go around

591
00:30:07,373 --> 00:30:11,653
Speaker 2: the other games that occurred during the weekend. We don't

592
00:30:11,653 --> 00:30:14,493
Speaker 2: want to start. France South Africa was probably the banner

593
00:30:14,573 --> 00:30:19,453
Speaker 2: game of the weekend. Rematch that quarterfinal from twenty twenty three,

594
00:30:19,773 --> 00:30:22,453
Speaker 2: and South Africa, despite being reduced to fourteen men for

595
00:30:23,533 --> 00:30:26,013
Speaker 2: just over forty minutes, were too good for France. It

596
00:30:26,093 --> 00:30:28,053
Speaker 2: started to France. That is a big win for South

597
00:30:28,133 --> 00:30:31,413
Speaker 2: Africa Circleise's one hundredth There was all sorts of motion

598
00:30:31,533 --> 00:30:34,373
Speaker 2: around that were reduced to fourteen men with lud Diyaga

599
00:30:35,173 --> 00:30:39,293
Speaker 2: being sent off. If that was the battle for the

600
00:30:39,373 --> 00:30:43,053
Speaker 2: world number one team, well, South Africa win by absolute knockout.

601
00:30:43,693 --> 00:30:46,893
Speaker 4: That's another absolute statement performance isn't it. France and Paris

602
00:30:47,453 --> 00:30:49,493
Speaker 4: is an incredibly tough game to win. The all Blacks

603
00:30:49,493 --> 00:30:52,613
Speaker 4: have found out out that outs this time last year.

604
00:30:52,813 --> 00:30:55,733
Speaker 4: And yeah, going down to a straight red card, which

605
00:30:55,773 --> 00:30:59,813
Speaker 4: you don't see very often, just on that thoughts on

606
00:30:59,893 --> 00:31:01,333
Speaker 4: the decision it.

607
00:31:01,413 --> 00:31:04,453
Speaker 2: Was a red card. I felt a little bit sorry

608
00:31:04,493 --> 00:31:08,013
Speaker 2: for lud Diyaga to an extent because I did think

609
00:31:08,013 --> 00:31:10,293
Speaker 2: there was the sign of a rap motion, but it

610
00:31:10,413 --> 00:31:13,053
Speaker 2: was probably not enough to save them from the red card.

611
00:31:13,093 --> 00:31:15,973
Speaker 2: But I didn't think the process and again this is

612
00:31:16,653 --> 00:31:19,653
Speaker 2: going back to my old favorite around the product versus

613
00:31:19,853 --> 00:31:24,213
Speaker 2: the decision. And so basically the foul play review officer,

614
00:31:24,253 --> 00:31:26,533
Speaker 2: once the decision is communicated to them, can only decide

615
00:31:26,533 --> 00:31:28,293
Speaker 2: on a yellow card or a twenty minute red card.

616
00:31:28,573 --> 00:31:30,733
Speaker 2: So Angus Gardener had to be the sole arbiter of

617
00:31:30,853 --> 00:31:33,853
Speaker 2: whether this was a full red card or not with

618
00:31:34,013 --> 00:31:36,973
Speaker 2: his assistance and the TEMO. I don't know why that's

619
00:31:36,973 --> 00:31:39,413
Speaker 2: a rule. Surely the foul payer review officer should have

620
00:31:40,013 --> 00:31:42,733
Speaker 2: all three punishments available to them yellow card, twenty minute

621
00:31:43,493 --> 00:31:46,453
Speaker 2: red card and a full red card, because on two

622
00:31:46,533 --> 00:31:48,933
Speaker 2: or three looks it had been clearly looked like it

623
00:31:49,093 --> 00:31:52,653
Speaker 2: was with the off field review. Great, that's what the

624
00:31:52,693 --> 00:31:55,133
Speaker 2: off field reviews for. I don't know why the foul

625
00:31:55,173 --> 00:31:58,533
Speaker 2: play review officer, who have seven or eight minutes to

626
00:31:58,533 --> 00:32:01,613
Speaker 2: look at all those angles, can't decide whether it's a

627
00:32:01,693 --> 00:32:05,373
Speaker 2: full redcard or not. That seems like a necessary hamstring

628
00:32:05,493 --> 00:32:08,093
Speaker 2: the process. So it was on angers Garden to make

629
00:32:08,093 --> 00:32:09,893
Speaker 2: that it was a full real I don't get why

630
00:32:09,933 --> 00:32:12,013
Speaker 2: that's the case, but I don't think lou diug has

631
00:32:12,013 --> 00:32:13,453
Speaker 2: probably got too much to complain about.

632
00:32:13,813 --> 00:32:15,013
Speaker 3: No, I think it was justified.

633
00:32:15,853 --> 00:32:18,253
Speaker 4: Look, there was potential mitigation in the fact that there

634
00:32:18,333 --> 00:32:22,093
Speaker 4: was a big dip, but it's clear shoulders to the

635
00:32:22,213 --> 00:32:26,813
Speaker 4: head and there is no real wrapping motion, so he

636
00:32:26,973 --> 00:32:29,693
Speaker 4: left himself open to the officials.

637
00:32:30,213 --> 00:32:32,413
Speaker 3: And look, in the end it didn't cost South Africa.

638
00:32:32,533 --> 00:32:37,293
Speaker 4: They came over the top of France, Sasha scoring a

639
00:32:37,373 --> 00:32:39,853
Speaker 4: late try and South Africa kicking clear.

640
00:32:41,333 --> 00:32:44,093
Speaker 3: So quite a bad loss at home for France. Really

641
00:32:46,133 --> 00:32:47,773
Speaker 3: they didn't have DuPont, but.

642
00:32:49,653 --> 00:32:53,733
Speaker 4: There's no real excuses otherwise, and it's their fourth loss

643
00:32:53,773 --> 00:32:56,293
Speaker 4: in a row and the last time they lost five

644
00:32:56,413 --> 00:33:01,333
Speaker 4: was twenty eighteen. That's from Russ Petty, the statistician in

645
00:33:01,413 --> 00:33:03,933
Speaker 4: the UK. That is a bit skewed because they sent

646
00:33:04,173 --> 00:33:08,733
Speaker 4: a second string team out to New Zealand in July. Look,

647
00:33:08,813 --> 00:33:11,453
Speaker 4: I still feel like France have massive strength and depth

648
00:33:11,613 --> 00:33:14,733
Speaker 4: and they are absolute superpower. But I think it is

649
00:33:14,773 --> 00:33:16,853
Speaker 4: a real punch in the face for them to lose

650
00:33:17,413 --> 00:33:21,653
Speaker 4: like that, having the one man advantage for so long.

651
00:33:22,093 --> 00:33:24,853
Speaker 4: I thought the handling was poor. They didn't really take

652
00:33:24,853 --> 00:33:30,173
Speaker 4: their opportunities. They can be quite erratic still, so it's

653
00:33:30,213 --> 00:33:30,933
Speaker 4: a bad loss.

654
00:33:30,773 --> 00:33:33,013
Speaker 2: At home can leads to one man band.

655
00:33:35,013 --> 00:33:39,413
Speaker 4: Look, there's no doubt Anton DuPont is their talesman, and yeah,

656
00:33:39,453 --> 00:33:42,653
Speaker 4: they probably have become overly reliant on him in recent years.

657
00:33:44,013 --> 00:33:47,253
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'd have been concerns about France and

658
00:33:49,893 --> 00:33:51,693
Speaker 2: they are a quality team. They're very, very hard to

659
00:33:51,733 --> 00:33:54,333
Speaker 2: play at home. But we saw what happened to them

660
00:33:54,373 --> 00:33:56,853
Speaker 2: in the World Cup at home, where they obviously lost

661
00:33:56,893 --> 00:33:59,453
Speaker 2: to South Africa and been kind of melted down a

662
00:33:59,573 --> 00:34:03,573
Speaker 2: little bit as a result of that loss, but also

663
00:34:03,933 --> 00:34:07,253
Speaker 2: just perhaps the home weight of expectation as well didn't

664
00:34:07,293 --> 00:34:09,413
Speaker 2: sit well with them. They started strongly against the All Blacks,

665
00:34:09,413 --> 00:34:11,773
Speaker 2: of course, but didn't quite work out from the home

666
00:34:11,813 --> 00:34:16,733
Speaker 2: World Cup. There's something interesting about the French that if

667
00:34:16,733 --> 00:34:18,653
Speaker 2: you're not traveling down to New Zealand for test series

668
00:34:18,733 --> 00:34:20,133
Speaker 2: like this, and I get why they didn't send a

669
00:34:20,173 --> 00:34:22,573
Speaker 2: full strength team, but at some point you're going to

670
00:34:22,613 --> 00:34:24,693
Speaker 2: have to spend seven eight weeks if you want to

671
00:34:24,693 --> 00:34:28,773
Speaker 2: win a World Cup in Australia with your teammates on

672
00:34:28,933 --> 00:34:32,093
Speaker 2: the road. And I just don't know that they have

673
00:34:32,173 --> 00:34:35,973
Speaker 2: that cohesiveness because of their approach to traveling to the

674
00:34:36,013 --> 00:34:37,973
Speaker 2: Southern Hemisphere that when it comes to the crunch, it's,

675
00:34:38,373 --> 00:34:40,853
Speaker 2: you know, one thing, spending four weeks at a time

676
00:34:40,893 --> 00:34:42,973
Speaker 2: with them in your own beds and then playing the

677
00:34:43,013 --> 00:34:46,573
Speaker 2: Six Nations and going around Europe. But going to a

678
00:34:46,613 --> 00:34:49,253
Speaker 2: World Cup when you've got, you know, to travel a

679
00:34:49,293 --> 00:34:52,253
Speaker 2: foreign country and you know, spend seven eight weeks with

680
00:34:52,293 --> 00:34:54,653
Speaker 2: your teammates, that is an entirely different thing. And that's

681
00:34:54,653 --> 00:34:57,133
Speaker 2: where I'm not sure that the French quite get it.

682
00:34:58,653 --> 00:35:02,213
Speaker 4: I think they are both propelled and hamstrung by the

683
00:35:02,253 --> 00:35:07,333
Speaker 4: strength of the domestic game. And the top fourteen is

684
00:35:07,373 --> 00:35:13,333
Speaker 4: a fantastic act. It's it's they have amazing depth, but

685
00:35:13,893 --> 00:35:19,413
Speaker 4: it's hamstring strings them in that July window. And when

686
00:35:19,453 --> 00:35:22,693
Speaker 4: your top team is not playing together very or often enough,

687
00:35:23,813 --> 00:35:27,613
Speaker 4: that really affects your cohesiveness and your ability to build

688
00:35:27,653 --> 00:35:31,293
Speaker 4: combinations and all those things travel to different destinations. Playing

689
00:35:31,333 --> 00:35:33,813
Speaker 4: abroad really matters. You think about the All Blacks coming

690
00:35:33,893 --> 00:35:37,813
Speaker 4: up here and you know players gaining the experience of

691
00:35:37,893 --> 00:35:40,573
Speaker 4: playing at Murrayfield and twicking them. It's a it's a

692
00:35:40,613 --> 00:35:43,973
Speaker 4: world away from playing in New Zealand's and a similar

693
00:35:44,173 --> 00:35:47,253
Speaker 4: sort of scenario for the French. So I think not

694
00:35:47,413 --> 00:35:50,533
Speaker 4: playing together in July while they're building depth and all

695
00:35:50,573 --> 00:35:54,013
Speaker 4: those sorts of things, that doesn't help their top team

696
00:35:54,133 --> 00:35:57,893
Speaker 4: gel and I think that's probably been born out a

697
00:35:57,973 --> 00:35:59,773
Speaker 4: little bit in that result of the weekend.

698
00:35:59,893 --> 00:36:03,973
Speaker 2: Let's talk Australia at ithly great for my Did I

699
00:36:04,013 --> 00:36:05,653
Speaker 2: say this on the podcast or that I can see

700
00:36:06,013 --> 00:36:09,173
Speaker 2: libiting you might have? Yeah they did.

701
00:36:09,333 --> 00:36:11,733
Speaker 4: Yeah it was dog on Australia. They cost me my

702
00:36:13,173 --> 00:36:16,933
Speaker 4: Southern sweep. I didn't have Fiji in there, but yeah,

703
00:36:17,333 --> 00:36:20,933
Speaker 4: look that's a it's not a shock, but it's a

704
00:36:21,133 --> 00:36:25,053
Speaker 4: result that should rattle Australian rugby and they really stunted

705
00:36:25,093 --> 00:36:26,853
Speaker 4: and maybe hit the wall after a long hair.

706
00:36:26,733 --> 00:36:29,653
Speaker 2: Think after Alice Park and a lot of the talk

707
00:36:29,733 --> 00:36:31,293
Speaker 2: that you know they came from twenty two Nel down

708
00:36:31,333 --> 00:36:34,733
Speaker 2: the Wallabies a back the Lions series, yep, absolutely, which

709
00:36:34,773 --> 00:36:38,293
Speaker 2: they could have won, and then it has just spun

710
00:36:38,453 --> 00:36:39,813
Speaker 2: out of control big time.

711
00:36:39,893 --> 00:36:42,493
Speaker 3: And I think they've won five from thirteen now this year.

712
00:36:42,573 --> 00:36:45,853
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if it wasn't for that scrappy win over

713
00:36:46,093 --> 00:36:50,013
Speaker 2: Japan and Tokyo a few weeks back, they'd be on

714
00:36:50,093 --> 00:36:53,173
Speaker 2: a seven game losing streak. Essentially, Potentially if they look

715
00:36:53,173 --> 00:36:54,933
Speaker 2: at the end of the year with Ireland and France

716
00:36:54,973 --> 00:36:57,693
Speaker 2: to hate, they could come out and beat Ireland. Who knows.

717
00:36:57,773 --> 00:37:00,893
Speaker 2: But and I see this morning that got Will Skelton

718
00:37:00,933 --> 00:37:03,573
Speaker 2: and James O'Connor have joined them in Dublin. So the

719
00:37:03,653 --> 00:37:05,213
Speaker 2: Cavalry's come in a little bit.

720
00:37:05,293 --> 00:37:07,933
Speaker 4: But that's half their problem though, isn't it. Yeah, they're

721
00:37:07,933 --> 00:37:12,013
Speaker 4: not there all the time. And yeah, I do question

722
00:37:12,253 --> 00:37:15,373
Speaker 4: Schmidt's sticking with I know he started Carter Gordon and

723
00:37:15,493 --> 00:37:19,413
Speaker 4: that match, but sticking with Tane Edmonds first five remains

724
00:37:19,453 --> 00:37:22,213
Speaker 4: an issue. And also saw Joe Schmitt come out afterwards

725
00:37:22,253 --> 00:37:25,813
Speaker 4: and say, look, stick with us, we're doing our best.

726
00:37:26,733 --> 00:37:29,253
Speaker 3: Keep the faith. But I think if you're an Australian.

727
00:37:28,893 --> 00:37:32,013
Speaker 4: Rugby furious coach, if you're Australian rugby fan, it's skin

728
00:37:32,173 --> 00:37:35,493
Speaker 4: it to that that tether point again, isn't it.

729
00:37:35,533 --> 00:37:38,813
Speaker 2: What it is? And if there was a gimme test

730
00:37:38,893 --> 00:37:41,133
Speaker 2: in the next couple of weeks that you go, maybe

731
00:37:41,333 --> 00:37:43,213
Speaker 2: Lee was the gimme test. And they've now blown that.

732
00:37:43,413 --> 00:37:47,453
Speaker 2: And they've got France team who have now been stung

733
00:37:47,533 --> 00:37:49,413
Speaker 2: by losing to stay I forget to finished the year.

734
00:37:50,093 --> 00:37:52,813
Speaker 2: They've got Ireland this week, who are very very good

735
00:37:52,853 --> 00:37:57,013
Speaker 2: at the Aviva. Yeah, it feels like spinning out of control.

736
00:37:57,093 --> 00:38:00,413
Speaker 2: And you know, Joe Schmitt hands the reins over mid

737
00:38:00,533 --> 00:38:04,293
Speaker 2: next year to Le's kiss. But it's interesting. I saw

738
00:38:04,333 --> 00:38:07,013
Speaker 2: our friend Christy Dorian do a piece of the raw

739
00:38:07,053 --> 00:38:09,373
Speaker 2: around Joe Schmitt's legacy. So two tests to save the

740
00:38:09,453 --> 00:38:12,333
Speaker 2: legacy here for Joe Schmitt. And it does feel a

741
00:38:12,413 --> 00:38:13,093
Speaker 2: little bit like that.

742
00:38:14,053 --> 00:38:18,013
Speaker 3: Yep, it does. Look he was startings from such a

743
00:38:18,053 --> 00:38:20,013
Speaker 3: low EBB. Yeah, Joe schmittt.

744
00:38:20,333 --> 00:38:22,133
Speaker 2: Promise he's gonna he could finish at a low eb

745
00:38:22,293 --> 00:38:25,053
Speaker 2: and you forget about those highs in the middle. Yeah,

746
00:38:25,173 --> 00:38:25,373
Speaker 2: you do.

747
00:38:27,333 --> 00:38:29,293
Speaker 4: Look, I thought he's done a lot of good things,

748
00:38:29,333 --> 00:38:31,573
Speaker 4: but results matter, don't they. And we're, like you said,

749
00:38:31,613 --> 00:38:34,933
Speaker 4: it's starting to spiral now and it's been a huge

750
00:38:34,973 --> 00:38:37,493
Speaker 4: year for the Wallabies and I think that's starting to tell.

751
00:38:38,573 --> 00:38:42,453
Speaker 2: It is Wales beating Argentina. Steve tandy first game as coach,

752
00:38:43,653 --> 00:38:48,213
Speaker 2: Argentina's biggest win over Wales. But to work on I

753
00:38:48,293 --> 00:38:50,373
Speaker 2: mean there were some positives there that they could put

754
00:38:50,453 --> 00:38:53,693
Speaker 2: on what twenty eight points in the end, not so

755
00:38:53,813 --> 00:38:56,293
Speaker 2: positive that Jack Morgan, who's by far their best player,

756
00:38:57,493 --> 00:38:59,173
Speaker 2: is now out for the rest of the year.

757
00:38:59,333 --> 00:39:00,053
Speaker 3: It's a big blow.

758
00:39:01,613 --> 00:39:03,773
Speaker 2: They have Japan this week, they have the All Blacks

759
00:39:04,093 --> 00:39:07,493
Speaker 2: next week, they have South Africa the following week, so

760
00:39:07,533 --> 00:39:09,973
Speaker 2: they've still got, you know, some big test matches to

761
00:39:10,053 --> 00:39:14,253
Speaker 2: come and with an eye to the World cut seedings

762
00:39:14,333 --> 00:39:17,973
Speaker 2: that's shrawn on December third. This Wales Japan game actually

763
00:39:18,093 --> 00:39:20,373
Speaker 2: takes on a lot of significance this week in so

764
00:39:22,133 --> 00:39:24,453
Speaker 2: they could get down to that third band of memory

765
00:39:24,493 --> 00:39:26,653
Speaker 2: serves right if they lose this weekend.

766
00:39:26,933 --> 00:39:27,453
Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw.

767
00:39:28,093 --> 00:39:29,973
Speaker 4: I think it was Rugby passed at a piece, basically

768
00:39:30,093 --> 00:39:34,013
Speaker 4: saying that it's incredibly hard. Now after the Wallabies loss,

769
00:39:35,573 --> 00:39:37,693
Speaker 4: I think Scotland have the best chance of breaking into

770
00:39:37,693 --> 00:39:41,013
Speaker 4: the top six, which gives you a favorable World Cup draw,

771
00:39:41,133 --> 00:39:43,493
Speaker 4: but it is very unlikely that the top six is

772
00:39:43,573 --> 00:39:44,173
Speaker 4: going to change.

773
00:39:44,893 --> 00:39:46,573
Speaker 3: Yeah, lock Whale was there in a world it hurts.

774
00:39:47,453 --> 00:39:52,733
Speaker 4: They are looking at cutting at least one domestic professional

775
00:39:52,813 --> 00:39:56,573
Speaker 4: team and look, I think Steve Tandy, you've got to

776
00:39:56,573 --> 00:39:57,173
Speaker 4: give him time.

777
00:39:57,493 --> 00:40:03,133
Speaker 3: He was defensive coach with Scotland's and so it's not

778
00:40:03,253 --> 00:40:04,373
Speaker 3: a three week job.

779
00:40:04,493 --> 00:40:08,133
Speaker 4: No, he won't be happy with that of conceding for

780
00:40:08,333 --> 00:40:11,093
Speaker 4: to your points, but he's not going to turn that

781
00:40:11,133 --> 00:40:15,533
Speaker 4: around overnights. He's making all the right noises. But so

782
00:40:15,693 --> 00:40:20,013
Speaker 4: Wales have now considered the most and second most first

783
00:40:20,053 --> 00:40:23,133
Speaker 4: half points at home and their last two matches they

784
00:40:23,133 --> 00:40:26,413
Speaker 4: are thirty three via England and thirty one va Argentina.

785
00:40:27,133 --> 00:40:29,733
Speaker 3: So like it's an up pearl battle, isn't it?

786
00:40:29,973 --> 00:40:32,773
Speaker 2: It really is. Before we go on Rugby Direct, let's

787
00:40:32,773 --> 00:40:35,373
Speaker 2: circle back to the All Blacks and England on Sunday

788
00:40:35,413 --> 00:40:38,533
Speaker 2: morning for a m England. I think a possibility to

789
00:40:38,573 --> 00:40:40,613
Speaker 2: name the team early. They might do it on Tuesday.

790
00:40:40,653 --> 00:40:43,733
Speaker 2: Haven't heard an update on that front as yet, but

791
00:40:43,893 --> 00:40:46,973
Speaker 2: they are on a nine match winning streak and they're

792
00:40:46,973 --> 00:40:49,813
Speaker 2: putting together some solid performances. That Fiji game, they were

793
00:40:50,213 --> 00:40:51,853
Speaker 2: you know, at the balance for a little bit but

794
00:40:51,973 --> 00:40:55,733
Speaker 2: managed to kick clear and put forty on them. In

795
00:40:55,853 --> 00:40:59,573
Speaker 2: the ends, they hung tough against a poor Australian side.

796
00:40:59,773 --> 00:41:01,693
Speaker 2: Didn't have to hang cats up, but they just knew

797
00:41:01,773 --> 00:41:03,133
Speaker 2: that they they wore them down, they were going to

798
00:41:03,173 --> 00:41:05,773
Speaker 2: get the win. There's some positive signs building in this

799
00:41:05,893 --> 00:41:08,013
Speaker 2: England team, but there will be a test for them

800
00:41:08,693 --> 00:41:09,693
Speaker 2: for the All Blacks this weekend.

801
00:41:10,333 --> 00:41:12,573
Speaker 4: Well, let's first of all assess where they are at

802
00:41:12,653 --> 00:41:15,533
Speaker 4: and unpack that that nine match winning run. There's no

803
00:41:15,573 --> 00:41:19,733
Speaker 4: doubt they're building confidence and belief and at Twickenham it's

804
00:41:19,773 --> 00:41:21,613
Speaker 4: always been a bit of a fortress.

805
00:41:21,693 --> 00:41:23,573
Speaker 3: Seal Blacks have a pretty good record there.

806
00:41:23,573 --> 00:41:24,933
Speaker 4: I don't know off the top of my head, but

807
00:41:25,373 --> 00:41:29,373
Speaker 4: they obviously won their last year in a very dramatic match.

808
00:41:29,413 --> 00:41:33,133
Speaker 3: I think it was twenty four twenty two down by Aden,

809
00:41:33,173 --> 00:41:33,853
Speaker 3: came back to one here.

810
00:41:33,893 --> 00:41:36,573
Speaker 4: That was a Mark Tala try in the corner, Damien

811
00:41:36,653 --> 00:41:40,453
Speaker 4: McKenzie clutch conversion and George Ford misses a potentially match

812
00:41:40,493 --> 00:41:44,613
Speaker 4: winning drop goal. So, first of all, on the England records,

813
00:41:45,293 --> 00:41:48,453
Speaker 4: how good is this nine match winning run. I think

814
00:41:48,493 --> 00:41:52,253
Speaker 4: their most notable scalp in that is France. I think

815
00:41:52,293 --> 00:41:55,373
Speaker 4: their last loss was maybe the first round to Islands

816
00:41:55,653 --> 00:41:57,133
Speaker 4: of the six nations in Dublin.

817
00:41:57,333 --> 00:41:58,733
Speaker 3: So what do you make of that streak?

818
00:41:58,773 --> 00:42:01,093
Speaker 2: First and foremost, you don't win nine games by excellent

819
00:42:01,133 --> 00:42:07,093
Speaker 2: against anyone. Um, I think that's generally true. And they

820
00:42:07,173 --> 00:42:10,653
Speaker 2: beat France by one point to Twickenham. They beat Scotland

821
00:42:10,733 --> 00:42:14,373
Speaker 2: by one point at Twickenham. But as from South Africa

822
00:42:14,853 --> 00:42:17,053
Speaker 2: the last World Cup, three wins in a row, even

823
00:42:17,093 --> 00:42:20,093
Speaker 2: by one point will get new places, and then Italy

824
00:42:20,173 --> 00:42:24,133
Speaker 2: and Wales after that, two pretty good and straightforward wins

825
00:42:24,733 --> 00:42:27,333
Speaker 2: for them. There's a couple of games in there where

826
00:42:27,333 --> 00:42:30,973
Speaker 2: we go weekend Argentine, the team who I don't think

827
00:42:31,053 --> 00:42:34,653
Speaker 2: had their full strength side of memory serves for some

828
00:42:34,773 --> 00:42:37,933
Speaker 2: of those games. Mind you needed did England, so hard

829
00:42:37,973 --> 00:42:40,853
Speaker 2: to know whether that even constitutes a test match when

830
00:42:40,893 --> 00:42:42,653
Speaker 2: you've got all your best players playing for the Lions.

831
00:42:44,093 --> 00:42:45,693
Speaker 2: They had the USA I think in there as well,

832
00:42:45,813 --> 00:42:48,013
Speaker 2: and then those last couple of weeks, so again you

833
00:42:48,013 --> 00:42:50,013
Speaker 2: don't win nine games by accident. They're a very very

834
00:42:50,013 --> 00:42:52,093
Speaker 2: good team. I think they've still got a little bit

835
00:42:52,133 --> 00:42:56,733
Speaker 2: to prove where they sit in World rugby, but I

836
00:42:56,813 --> 00:42:59,053
Speaker 2: think to be honest, they're in a pretty good spot

837
00:42:59,093 --> 00:43:00,653
Speaker 2: two years out from a World Cup. I don't know

838
00:43:00,653 --> 00:43:03,853
Speaker 2: if they're quite there as yet. This test will be

839
00:43:03,893 --> 00:43:07,333
Speaker 2: a very very interesting marker as to where they sit.

840
00:43:08,413 --> 00:43:10,933
Speaker 4: I I don't know about you, but I always felt

841
00:43:10,973 --> 00:43:13,173
Speaker 4: this would be the greatest threat to the All Blacks

842
00:43:13,253 --> 00:43:17,013
Speaker 4: Grand Slam Tour. They're chasing their first Grand Slam in

843
00:43:17,053 --> 00:43:21,293
Speaker 4: fifteen years, and it always felt like England's loomed on

844
00:43:21,413 --> 00:43:26,253
Speaker 4: the horizon, you know. And there's history here, recent history

845
00:43:26,293 --> 00:43:28,893
Speaker 4: as well, because not only that game last night November,

846
00:43:29,253 --> 00:43:32,293
Speaker 4: Bill Black's played in England's played three times last year.

847
00:43:32,693 --> 00:43:35,413
Speaker 4: I think England came down to New Zealand twice in

848
00:43:35,533 --> 00:43:38,133
Speaker 4: July probably should have been Neil Blacks and raised his

849
00:43:38,253 --> 00:43:42,213
Speaker 4: first game in charge in Dunedin when Marcus Smith missed

850
00:43:42,213 --> 00:43:43,933
Speaker 4: a couple off the tea from memory, and then they

851
00:43:43,973 --> 00:43:46,933
Speaker 4: went pretty close at Eden Park when Boden Barrack came

852
00:43:46,973 --> 00:43:50,533
Speaker 4: off the bench to turn that game late. So there'll

853
00:43:50,573 --> 00:43:53,093
Speaker 4: be a sense of unfinished business for England, a sense

854
00:43:53,133 --> 00:43:57,133
Speaker 4: of revenge that they'll want. They'll be right up for this,

855
00:43:57,453 --> 00:44:00,693
Speaker 4: and yeah, they built some confidence and belief. I think

856
00:44:01,373 --> 00:44:02,933
Speaker 4: last week they made some changes.

857
00:44:03,013 --> 00:44:03,453
Speaker 3: They went to.

858
00:44:05,173 --> 00:44:07,853
Speaker 4: Finn Smith at ten and Marcus Smith at fullback, so

859
00:44:07,973 --> 00:44:11,093
Speaker 4: more hacking endeavor. But I think they will revert to

860
00:44:11,133 --> 00:44:13,373
Speaker 4: their DNA revert to type this week, go back to

861
00:44:13,453 --> 00:44:18,173
Speaker 4: George Ford at number ten and I Freddy Stewart's will

862
00:44:18,213 --> 00:44:20,933
Speaker 4: probably come in at fullback. Alex Mitchell will kick all

863
00:44:21,053 --> 00:44:24,573
Speaker 4: day from the base. Do you expect anything out of

864
00:44:24,613 --> 00:44:28,693
Speaker 4: the box from ingend or will it be classic not

865
00:44:28,813 --> 00:44:31,333
Speaker 4: ten man rugby, but they'll look to go to their

866
00:44:31,413 --> 00:44:33,133
Speaker 4: set piece and squeeze and kick.

867
00:44:33,693 --> 00:44:35,253
Speaker 2: I would love to see them play out of the box.

868
00:44:35,293 --> 00:44:37,213
Speaker 2: I think it's when they're at their best, actually, when

869
00:44:37,213 --> 00:44:39,653
Speaker 2: they challenge the All Blacks as they think back to

870
00:44:39,733 --> 00:44:41,533
Speaker 2: that game they won in twenty twelve where they did

871
00:44:41,573 --> 00:44:45,213
Speaker 2: play attacking rugby and took the All Blacks attired All Blacks,

872
00:44:45,253 --> 00:44:49,093
Speaker 2: but All Blacks on at their own game, the game

873
00:44:49,133 --> 00:44:50,773
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two where they came back from what

874
00:44:50,893 --> 00:44:53,293
Speaker 2: was at twenty five six down to draw the game.

875
00:44:54,253 --> 00:44:56,013
Speaker 2: They were chasing it, but it forced them to play

876
00:44:56,013 --> 00:44:57,653
Speaker 2: a little bit of attack. I get why they play

877
00:44:57,773 --> 00:45:00,213
Speaker 2: like they do, but sometimes I think they're actually more

878
00:45:00,213 --> 00:45:02,293
Speaker 2: efficient against the All Blacks in terms of that head

879
00:45:02,333 --> 00:45:04,453
Speaker 2: to head matchup when they do take the All Blacks

880
00:45:04,453 --> 00:45:06,733
Speaker 2: on at their own game. You know, you saw Scotland

881
00:45:06,773 --> 00:45:13,813
Speaker 2: get a lot of pay at the strong direct carries. Now, yes,

882
00:45:13,933 --> 00:45:17,373
Speaker 2: maybe England will do that anyway, but Scottland also found

883
00:45:17,413 --> 00:45:19,653
Speaker 2: space on the edge. By doing that. With that strong carries,

884
00:45:19,653 --> 00:45:21,493
Speaker 2: they're able to suck the defense in the middle of

885
00:45:21,533 --> 00:45:23,933
Speaker 2: park open up space on either edge. So they've got

886
00:45:23,973 --> 00:45:27,853
Speaker 2: some fine wingers as well, Tommy Freeman and Manuel fey Woboso.

887
00:45:28,053 --> 00:45:29,013
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a real weapon.

888
00:45:29,413 --> 00:45:31,733
Speaker 2: So but they're a really really good team. And as

889
00:45:31,773 --> 00:45:33,653
Speaker 2: I said, I like where they're sitting two years out

890
00:45:33,693 --> 00:45:36,653
Speaker 2: from World Cup. Henry Arundel. There's another strong player in

891
00:45:36,733 --> 00:45:39,253
Speaker 2: that back line who may get a start this week.

892
00:45:39,333 --> 00:45:41,573
Speaker 2: Potentially interesting to see what Steve Borthwick does.

893
00:45:41,653 --> 00:45:45,773
Speaker 4: But Chanlo Cunning himself Yep, damaging bull career, the Kiwi

894
00:45:45,853 --> 00:45:46,933
Speaker 4: born loose Ford.

895
00:45:46,773 --> 00:45:50,173
Speaker 2: That's right, and so I really like the way that

896
00:45:50,253 --> 00:45:53,813
Speaker 2: they are positioned with the night of the World Cup.

897
00:45:53,933 --> 00:45:55,893
Speaker 2: So it's just gonna be interesting to see what they

898
00:45:55,893 --> 00:45:57,733
Speaker 2: do at ten this week. Do they go back to

899
00:45:57,773 --> 00:45:58,333
Speaker 2: George Ford?

900
00:45:58,453 --> 00:46:02,333
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was their man against the Wallabies two weeks ago,

901
00:46:02,893 --> 00:46:07,413
Speaker 4: and I don't think Finn Smith really took his chance

902
00:46:07,973 --> 00:46:13,173
Speaker 4: against Fiji. He's performed really well for Northampton, but I

903
00:46:13,253 --> 00:46:17,693
Speaker 4: don't think he really suits the style that Borthwick likes

904
00:46:17,733 --> 00:46:19,973
Speaker 4: to play. Look, I think England can play a multitude

905
00:46:19,973 --> 00:46:23,733
Speaker 4: of ways, but first and foremost they will go back

906
00:46:23,773 --> 00:46:27,653
Speaker 4: to that Maro ToJ massive presence as well lead the

907
00:46:27,733 --> 00:46:33,173
Speaker 4: Lions tour, and not only from a line out perspective,

908
00:46:33,253 --> 00:46:35,413
Speaker 4: but he is an absolute menace at the breakdown, so

909
00:46:35,453 --> 00:46:37,053
Speaker 4: the Blacks need to get that right.

910
00:46:37,333 --> 00:46:40,133
Speaker 2: Very impressed as well by Fraser Dingal, who's only played

911
00:46:40,173 --> 00:46:44,853
Speaker 2: I think five sixtiest potentially like the look of him

912
00:46:44,853 --> 00:46:48,173
Speaker 2: at second five as well. So it's very very good team.

913
00:46:48,213 --> 00:46:51,453
Speaker 2: It's hard to too many weaknesses in that England side,

914
00:46:51,773 --> 00:46:54,373
Speaker 2: but what we have seen is occasionally they get to

915
00:46:54,493 --> 00:46:56,893
Speaker 2: a point we think they're on the rise and then

916
00:46:57,373 --> 00:47:00,213
Speaker 2: the full comes. So again, oh, this is.

917
00:47:00,213 --> 00:47:02,613
Speaker 4: The big reveal for both teams, isn't it. Yeah, it's

918
00:47:02,693 --> 00:47:05,053
Speaker 4: quite hard to get a real gauge on where the

919
00:47:05,053 --> 00:47:07,053
Speaker 4: All Blacks are at and where England are at, and

920
00:47:07,133 --> 00:47:11,253
Speaker 4: I think this week it's one of the greatest rugby venues.

921
00:47:11,253 --> 00:47:14,533
Speaker 4: It will be another huge occasion we will find out.

922
00:47:14,573 --> 00:47:16,133
Speaker 2: Yeah, flew over that last night as a coming in.

923
00:47:16,213 --> 00:47:18,373
Speaker 2: It's like they had the heaters on the surface and

924
00:47:18,413 --> 00:47:21,373
Speaker 2: everything like that. It's like, yeah, this is a Aliard stadium.

925
00:47:21,453 --> 00:47:22,013
Speaker 2: Nothing better.

926
00:47:22,333 --> 00:47:26,693
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no, pound Spirit No, Absolutely very much.

927
00:47:26,613 --> 00:47:29,213
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it. We'll be back with another podcast

928
00:47:29,253 --> 00:47:31,973
Speaker 2: once the teams are revealed later in the week, probably

929
00:47:32,053 --> 00:47:35,013
Speaker 2: Friday morning at New Zealand time, but on Behalf Lars

930
00:47:35,093 --> 00:47:38,653
Speaker 2: and Bars englishly in Napier and Xy Solutions celebrating twenty

931
00:47:38,693 --> 00:47:41,893
Speaker 2: five years in business. Elliott Smith pushing you a very

932
00:47:42,133 --> 00:47:42,893
Speaker 2: good week.

933
00:47:46,893 --> 00:47:49,813
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks b listen live on air

934
00:47:50,013 --> 00:47:52,693
Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you

935
00:47:52,813 --> 00:47:55,173
Speaker 1: go with our podcast on iHeartRadio