WEBVTT - Are we afraid to be ambitious? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.840 Half of Key. We would rather talk politics than money, 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:03.800 which surprised me too. 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:07.800 Many of us we're embarrassed, we feel shame, but many 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:10.000 of us are making the same sorts of mistate. 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:12.520 Do you think tall poppy syndromes and economic. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.040 Cost Oh, for sure, that's what wealth is about. 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.079 Having options. I'm lighton Roberts from Cheesy's and today on 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.480 She at Large. I'm joined by Luke Kemmy's from Kick 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:21.040 the Change. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.280 You can still hear ringing in my ears people saying, Oh, 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.080 you're a try hard and I kind of think as 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.200 I've gotten older, yeah, I still need to try pretty hard, 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:29.880 but nothing really good comes of not trying very hard. 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.239 We talk about money, shame, tool poppy syndrome, and why 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.239 being more open about our finances might actually make us 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:37.000 all better off. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.120 Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.440 start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:48.000 We also recommend breading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.640 Everything you're about to see and here is current at 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:51.519 the time of recording. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.240 Great to have you here again, Luke. 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:54.440 Always good to be here. 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:56.760 Last time we caught up, we were at the FIFA 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.240 World Cup, which pretty epic experience and learn event. Yeah, 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.160 it was lots of key over there as well. I 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:04.160 was sort of surprised at how many actually but run 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.399 into each other. And to do that, you've got to 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.759 get some good savings and play for So how long 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.280 had you been thinking about that? How far ahead are 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.119 you thinking these sort of events? 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.280 Yeah, that was a good couple of years of being 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:19.839 very deliberate about going to that, and to be honest, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.480 like doing it and doing it really well. And I 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.240 guess getting to a position in life where we could 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.000 do it and enjoy a lot of it rather than 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.440 some of the travel I've done previously, which might be skimping. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:33.520 And there were many people that did it with a 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:35.319 different budget, which is good to see. Yeah. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.800 Yeah, I like that planning out. It's amazing how much 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.000 more enjoyable it can be if you like, if you 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.240 have actually thought about that budget and stuff in front 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.440 and have a good time. Anyway, I digress completely from 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:50.160 what we're going to talk about, which is really just 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.880 thinking about money and it's part in particular in New 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:58.480 Zealander's lives and the mentality around it and what you 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.080 see in your already and the people who speak to 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.640 you regularly, and the companies you advise how they approach it, 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:06.920 if that's changing at all, and then also how that 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:12.120 might ultimately flow into the economy more broadly. So one 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:13.880 of the things I've seen you described before is that 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.639 you're interested in money and then you don't think it's 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.520 a bad thing. So I'd just love to explore that 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:19.520 a bit with you. Well. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.440 I think it's fascinating that we've normalized, or gone on 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.440 the journey of normalizing talking about mental health and physical health. 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.440 And it's pretty acceptable now to do BFT with your 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:35.000 top off and go to your CrossFit and then post 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:36.639 about that, or we now even have an app where 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.760 you can then like someone going for a run. But 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.000 if you then go online and talk about money or 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.840 what your key WE saver balances or how much you 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.000 are earning your shares, that might be doing well. I 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.079 think it's still really uncomfortable for people, and I wonder 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:55.960 if financial literacy and money is the next wave of 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.120 US KEY. We people getting a bit more uncomfortable talking 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.680 about these things. But for some reason, I still think 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.600 that there is a pretty big barrier to doing that. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.280 A nice budgeting with your top off that could be 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.240 the next quess you I would not be entering there. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.400 I'd probably need a few trips to BFT before I 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.200 was up for that. But I think it's like a 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.840 super interesting conversation, and like, how much do you think 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.760 of it as driven by an economy right now? Where 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.440 it's not easy you talk about some of these other trends, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.760 the health and the well being. And Brooke actually often 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.760 she talks about shares his purpose which is to create 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.800 wealth and get more people being wealthy, and it's not 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:37.960 the purpose. The purpose is not just to have money. 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.920 The purpose is that health is the ultimate wealth and 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.360 wealth can play into that in a big way. So 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.640 have you got a feel for just how much like 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.640 now it could be a good time to change that 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:50.520 psyche just because of how hard it is. 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.080 Yeah, I sort of come up with this idea of 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:54.840 maybe we need a national Key we Save a day 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.920 on the thirtieth of June we actually talk more about 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:00.960 Key We Saver and maybe what we've got in our 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:05.119 balances so that people have a reason to potentially talk 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.680 about money in a way that they haven't been doing before. 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.040 And I wonder if that's something that we could get 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.240 to take off. Obviously we have sorted money month, which 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.839 is great, but I do think people are slowly being 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.200 more open to talking about it. However, probably in pockets. 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.080 So often I'll have people tell me about something successful 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.000 that they've achieved with money, and then they'll say, oh, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:28.920 just wanted to share that with you, because I don't 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.440 really have anyone else that I can tell. And I 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.960 think when times are tough, and also being Kiwis, we're 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.240 quite humble and we probably don't want to be mistaken 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.880 for bragging or rubbing it in someone's face when we 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.680 know other people may be struggling. And someone once said 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.400 to me that because New Zealand is very small, you know, 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.760 we do feel inequality and things like that because we 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.200 see it and we think, ah, okay, that's happening just 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.640 down the road, whereas maybe in bigger places they may 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:58.720 look at it and go, okay, that's just part of 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.719 what's happening. So I do think we do have a 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.320 little bit of this. You know, don't talk too much 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.320 about how well you may be doing, because you don't 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.479 know how hard it is for somebody else. And I 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.080 think people when they do talk about their successes, they're 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.440 not trying to brag about it or you know, rub 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.080 it in people's faces. I think the majority of people, 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:20.880 they're just saying, hey, I've achieved this thing and I 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.760 want to share it with you, and that should be okay. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.080 Yeah. I mean it's a great quality of New Zealand 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.200 as well, isn't it that we do respect that? Just 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:31.680 talking about that trip to the States, you know, I 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.520 think it's a very different mentality over there, and you 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.000 can see it. So I was there for a work event. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:42.960 We were at Stanford University, and there was just so 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.360 many people doing such great things, like actually on a 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.840 global scale, and so few of them were names that 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:53.120 we would know here in New Zealand. And like so, 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.400 I've been thinking a lot about the word ambition lately, 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:00.479 and I was speaking at a conference, the Young Elected 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.640 Members Conference, and one of the things we were talking 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.400 about there was how New Zealanders are actually really ambitious people. 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.040 Like you know, we're super competitive. We in sport, we 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.040 tend to outshine and a lot of things we do 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.040 to a greater things business. We're nine number eight wire 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.120 mentality and all this sort of thing. But there's something 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:19.960 that means that it's not always coming to the fore, 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.279 and there is something that happens right at start and 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.400 classrooms even where maybe it's not best to be the 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.520 most academic in the and so there's like a really 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.520 interesting line to draw there, which you know, I sort 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.080 of think flows a little bit into money as well. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.039 And some of the studies, like I found that like 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.839 half of key we would rather talk politics than money, 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.000 which surprised me. But where do you think that comes from? 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.640 Like is it shallow? Is it showy like if to 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.360 talk about money, or do you think it's like more embarrassment. 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.640 Yeah, the I noticed an obsession at the moment with politics. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.320 I feel like that has grown. I wonder if that 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.600 is just the wave of content that's been put in 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.040 front of people and so then they're getting absorbed in that. 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:04.920 But I do think sometimes if we replace some of 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:10.320 those negative stories with some positive ones around people doing well, 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.200 why do they not perform as well? And I do 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.760 notice even when I study content and see what's working 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.400 that that sometimes those stories don't perform as well as 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.400 I think that they may, or even if they do 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.800 perform well, a number of the comments will be, yeah, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.840 but this person had that, or yeah, I would prefer 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.000 if the interviewer focused on the upbringing or yeah, what 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:31.920 did their parents teach them all? So and so I 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.960 think we get lost down these ruts and reasons of 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.320 why we can't do something, and going back to, you know, 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:40.640 the earlier years, I do think I think it might 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.480 have died off a bit now, but you know, I 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.600 can still hear ringing in my ears people saying, oh, 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.520 you're a try hard and then you know, not just 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.000 to me, but that was sort of a thing, and 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:50.680 I kind of think as I've gotten older, yeah, I 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.560 still need to try pretty hard to get things to happen, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.440 but nothing really good comes of not trying very hard. 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.000 But I think we have a bit of that too. 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.520 We want to tell someone that they are trying a 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.920 little bit too hard, and then just with all of that, 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:06.640 it just compounds on us to perhaps aim for less. 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:08.440 And I'm noticed the same thing in the States. I 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.440 actually bumped into some very successful Kiwi people that I'd 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.040 never heard of before, was blowing away what they were 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.640 doing very ironically, had already transacted with one of their 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.080 businesses and gone seriously, like you, okay, I saw that 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.600 on my bank statement. So I'm really intrigued and then 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:27.640 I might have had a couple of Espresso Martinez at 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.760 one of the games. Mate, let's make a quick Instagram 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.240 snip of you know three things that you would love 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.160 ki people to know. No, no, no no no wah 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.319 war no, I'm not. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:35.760 What do you mean? 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.520 Why are you doing that on Instagram? Leave me away 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.280 from that. I kind of thought, oh, to me, there's 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.600 some success there. They've got some runs on the board. 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.960 This is fascinating, but there's still that hesitation. I've been 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.280 seen to be doing too well. And maybe it's just 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.000 because we do love to bring people down when they 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.680 do go a bit far, or have our opinions of 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.080 how people should be making money what they should be 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.920 doing along that due and maybe people have been beaten 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.400 up a little bit by that, so then they get 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.920 a bit shy, you know, continuing to demonstrate or talk 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:09.280 about how they have had success. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:14.440 It has flown into investing markets and stuff as well. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.199 New Zealanders love cash. Like if you look at the 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.199 amount of cash that sits around on balance sheets and 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.400 stuff around New Zealand, and that's by no means a 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.440 bad thing to have enough there to cover the tough 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:32.200 times and stuff. But it's not productive and it's not 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.240 growing the economy and stuff. But I think for people 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.679 that I speak to one it can be addictive, which 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:43.400 is you know, again, I guess quite a good thing 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.760 with regards to behavior. You get a little bit and 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:47.960 then you start to see the compounding impacts come through. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.160 It's very visible, it's re tangible. If you wanted to, 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.480 you could go spend it. But I think one of 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:55.679 the things that I've been thinking about in this economy 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.800 is like there's that much cash around. There are some 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.120 businesses that are starved for some custom right now, and 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.440 it does worry me a little bit how many people 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:06.600 are not spinning for the reasons you touched on right 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.440 at the start, which is purely they don't want to 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.760 be seen to be sort of showing off, and they 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.160 may feel like others can't keep up. But actually the 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.040 economy thrives by spinning, right. You need people out there 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.880 doing that, Like it can become this momentum thing gets 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:22.920 to get a bit of a roll on. And one 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.240 of the things I saw in a post you made recently, 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:29.080 which was which I just became for you to share now, 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.240 was some of the early thinking you had around the 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.640 survived to twenty five and you were unique and that 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.800 you sort of identified that as maybe a problem statement 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.520 back then. So what was it about then and what 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.680 is it now that makes you think you're probably right? 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.640 Well, I'd read about survived to twenty five coming out 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.559 of America and commercial real estate, and then all of 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.920 a sudden I heard our media talking about it, and 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:53.800 then I noticed clients started saying it. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:58.640 like this is not good because people were looking at 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.160 it as if it was some sort of mantra or 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.000 way to live. And we were saying to clients, you've 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.360 got to be really careful adopting that as your way 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.360 to operate this business. If you're just going to wait 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.520 till twenty twenty five, no one's going to ring you 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.560 on the first of January and say, hey, you know 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.480 you survived, let's go. And I think we've seen people 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.120 caught out by the fact that they thought it may 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.280 just get better. And maybe I've been beaten up a 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.240 little bit too much in life to learn that it's 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.800 not really how the world works. You know, things don't 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:28.520 just get better on a date. You've got to go 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.160 out there and try and make them better. Yes, of 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.920 course there are external factors as well, but I could 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.360 just see people were buying into a reason to then 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.439 maybe not take action, or let's delay this decision or 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.239 action taking until we get to twenty twenty five. And realistically, 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.679 all that it was was that the media and other 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.280 people were talking about the fact that it was kind 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.679 of catchy, you know, and I even saw some economists 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.120 like theming their keynotes about that. I'm going, you know, 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.480 this just doesn't seem like a way for us to 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.719 run our lives. That's going to see growing on the 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.679 other side. And interestingly, when I posted about it on LinkedIn, 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.679 you know two years ago, ninety percent of people were 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.640 like great posts. Yep, completely get it. And actually there 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.400 were a few people that come into being like, mate, 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.280 you're so far out of touch. Oh look at his profiles. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.320 You know, he just does well off of others people's success. 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.520 He's never done anything himself. And then I'm looking, I'm like, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.480 some of these people were, you know, had an order 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.080 of merit, for instance, And so I'm thinking, not everyone's 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.079 going to agree with those things, but I do think 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.439 we've got to be really careful about what we're putting 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.840 into our minds, because our inputs can often become our outputs. 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.640 So if you want to set yourself up for success, 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:40.960 you've got to start to weed through some of the 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.840 things that are coming at you and decide how you're 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:45.160 going to play on the front foot. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.200 Yeah, I think you put that nicely because it's not 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.400 just about it's not necessarily about spending or necessarily money 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.080 related with that mindset, is it. It's like this survive 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.480 to twenty five was very much like a financial mantra. 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:02.199 But the risk is then it becomes one of action 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.080 as well, and the sort of you can take action 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.199 without spending like that as possible, and you can make 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.679 changes and you can do the analysis you need to 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.760 to work out where the right investment is, whether that's 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:13.240 time or money. 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.240 And I guess the counter kind of what you were 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.960 saying is I was going out to the world at 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.200 the time saying there's so much money out there and 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.640 backing it up with data, and people were going hah, 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.920 like we're being told survives at twenty five or there's not, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.120 and the economy is contracting, and you're saying there's heaps 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.520 of money out there, So great for content because people 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.920 are then saying you're an idiot, you don't understand. But 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.320 from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty five, or maybe twenty 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.560 twenty six, there's been growth of one hundred and thirty 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.800 billion dollars of amounts of money sitting in the turn deposits. 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.080 Now that's more than the wealth of our entire rich list, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.200 which we get angry about. And hey, maybe rightly or wrongly, 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.760 but I was educating people or encouraging them. Hey, you know, 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.880 people are still transacting. A market transacts when value exceeds price. 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.840 So if you've got something good that somebody wants, then 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:01.960 don't feel like you can't do that, and you've got 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.160 to wait till back end of twenty five as we're 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.600 buying into all of these guesses from people. When market 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:13.360 principles are always there. If someone wants something and you 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.719 can provide it for them and they value it and 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.400 they're willing to have that in their life, then they 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.120 will transact with you. And we've seen actually a lot 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.640 of businesses still performing really well by continually putting themselves 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.080 in front of people who do want a problem solved 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.040 or do want value edited their life. 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.000 Yeah, it's a cool thought as a country and just 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.760 how that mentality aspect can flow through. There is something cultural. 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.000 You know, there's geographic challenges, size challenges, no doubt, but 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.600 there is I think there is a culture challenge in 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.080 this stuff because we do we do tend to lag 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:52.240 recovery of other markets, and part of that is our 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.280 appetite to get going a bit sooner. 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.480 Or do we look back at nineteen eighty seven? 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.880 Yeah, yeah, well they you know, as they say most 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.240 because I read people are still scared off from investing, right, 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.560 But yeah, there is a generation change and that's real. 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.560 So there's been some other surveys. I found that one 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.240 in three This really surprised me by the way way 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.440 that one in three New Zealanders aren't even sharing their 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.040 finances with their families or their partners. What kind of 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.760 toll do you think that that's this like level of secrecy, like, 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.000 what's what sort of told do you think that takes? 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.040 Well, it's massive. And I'll tell you a story that 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:26.840 I think sums us up quite well where I had 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.240 a young lad reach out to me and this is 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:30.760 from a business side, and he was telling me about 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.080 some of the things that he was facing in his 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:36.160 business and I'm sitting there as the accountant being very transactional. Okay, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.200 you know, we've bitten off a bit more than we 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.600 can choose. Some things haven't gone so well. And I said, mate, 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.040 this is going to be a grind out of this. 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.800 And I said, you know, please tell me you've shared 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:47.440 this with your wife? Nah? 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:48.120 Nah? 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.120 Really? Why not? Mate? Well, I just I just don't 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.200 want her to have to worry about it. Might well, mate, 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.720 I'm now worried about you because it's all you're going 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.880 to worry about. And he eventually broke down and wasn't. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.160 And I think you can start to see this weight 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.960 that people carry. And I mean I was brought up. 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.040 We are sharing something, you know, it's a problem shared 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:10.760 as a problem. Half that things are probably a little 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:11.400 bit more normal. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:12.120 But I know not. 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:16.240 Everybody's had that upbringing. But the amount of times that 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.240 I speak to a business owner and they are going 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.640 through something and they are incredibly lonely about it or 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.000 want to offload and just talk about it, and I 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.880 think that's no different to what someone may be facing 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.400 in their personal life. You know, I've got myself into 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.920 credit card dept before, for instance, and I can still 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.280 remember the relief of talking to my brother about it, 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.360 where he's like, Okay, well you need to start paying 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.680 it back. So okay, a great plan, but at least 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:42.600 I've kind of got it off my chest to a degree. 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.240 And I think too many of us we're embarrassed, we 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.400 feel shame, but many of us are making the same 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.920 sorts of mistakes. And actually, what I've learned is that 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.800 people actually want to see people improve or better their situation, 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.240 or there are more solutions available to people than what 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.480 they realize. But it comes back to Okay, we've learned 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.760 that with physical health, we've learned that with mental health 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.320 to start putting our hand up. But with financial health, 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.440 I think we've still got a little bit to go. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.679 And so you know, I know some people will message 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.480 me and they've accessed financial education through the EAP systems 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.640 and things, and I think, again, go back to the top, 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.159 like maybe that's our next wave of encouraging more people 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.200 to say, hey, I have got into this financial situation. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.160 Let's not look at it as embarrassed, mentioned and emotional. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.280 It's just transactional and what does it tell us, Okay, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.240 what are my next steps from here? 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.000 One of the things I see a lot is people 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.600 looking for like the immediate outcome or the immediate resolution, 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.639 and most problems don't come from a like it le 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:45.680 doesn't just happen, you know, it normally took some time 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.480 to dig yourself a whole. So it's a fair expectation. 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.280 I think that you're going to take some time to 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.359 dig yourself out of it. And I love this idea 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.040 of sharing more on that because it's something I think 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.080 businesses do pretty well. Like a couple of examples for 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.760 shares is, So we came up through startup. You know, 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.040 we started the business without any money, sort of grow 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.640 that over time you raise capital. We got a bit 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:11.879 in our world they call it getting a bit of 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.120 hidierr skis, which is that your sort of spend gets 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.200 a bit ahead of the size of the business and 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.760 its revenues, and particularly if things start to go poorly. 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.919 So for us, that was when inflation started to come in, 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:27.640 interest rates started to go up, and interestingly, like those 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.880 are very lonely times as business people, but as soon 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.200 as you're brave enough to speak to anyone about it, 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.480 you find just how many people have been through that, 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.480 And like, like you, I've had some personal finance decisions 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.320 that were not ideal, and probably you know, in hindsight, 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.520 should have chosen to have those conversations because I know 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.879 other people have had that experience, and you can always 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.120 think that they haven't, and it's always better to learn 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.560