Speaker 1: Kielda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Each year,
Speaker 1: around forty thousand New Zealanders are disconnected from the power
Speaker 1: supply for non payment. According to Consumer and Z they
Speaker 1: are surviving winter in cold, dark homes without access to
Speaker 1: a warm shower or a home cooked meal, sometimes for
Speaker 1: months at a time. It comes at a time when
Speaker 1: the main players in the power business are making huge profits,
Speaker 1: including charging hundreds for reconnections done by the touch of
Speaker 1: a button. So how do we ensure that the lights
Speaker 1: can stay on for everyone?
Speaker 2: Today?
Speaker 1: On the Front Page. Senior Research fellow at University of
Speaker 1: Otago's Department of Public Health, Kimberly O'Sullivan Kimberlieve, how extreme
Speaker 1: is the issue of energy hardship in New Zealand.
Speaker 3: Well, energy hardship is a really complex problem, and it's
Speaker 3: caused by a big combination of housing quality, where you live,
Speaker 3: how you pay for energy, what your household income is,
Speaker 3: and who lives at home what energy they need to
Speaker 3: use to keep healthy and comfortable. So that's why it's
Speaker 3: really hard to measure, because we can't really just ask
Speaker 3: one single question to understand how big the issue is.
Speaker 3: But from our interview and survey studies, as well as
Speaker 3: some research looking at electricity expenditure, we know that some
Speaker 3: people will ration energy severely rather than spend more, and
Speaker 3: others will go into debt. And due to the inefficiency
Speaker 3: of their homes, some people won't be able to get
Speaker 3: warm even if they do spend a lot. So using
Speaker 3: different estimates, we found about a quarter of the population
Speaker 3: we're experiencing energy hardship. Based on calculations about how much
Speaker 3: households would need to spend on electricity to keep homes
Speaker 3: to the minimum eighteen degree temperature recommended by the World
Speaker 3: Health Organization for Protecting Health, and our more recent estimates.
Speaker 3: Depending on how we measure energy hatship, the number ranges
Speaker 3: from about eighteen to thirty percent of households.
Speaker 1: You've been studying this for some years, hey, and I've
Speaker 1: been to the homes of those who have actually lost power.
Speaker 1: What sort of conditions are they living in?
Speaker 3: So we see a range of things. So cutting back
Speaker 3: on heating is very common. Other things like not using
Speaker 3: electricity when the children go out to school, so parients
Speaker 3: or caregivers might be sitting at home during the day,
Speaker 3: but they won't use any electricity, they won't use any heating,
Speaker 3: they'll save that up for when the kids come home.
Speaker 3: They've seen extreme rationing on hot water, so some people
Speaker 3: will switch off their hot water cylinder because they've worked
Speaker 3: out that if they have a shower and then they
Speaker 3: switch off their cylinder for the next few days and
Speaker 3: just use whatever is left and then switch it back
Speaker 3: on maybe four days later and have another hot shower,
Speaker 3: that will be cheaper for them in the longer run.
Speaker 3: So sometimes people do that. Generally, people prioritize keeping the
Speaker 3: lights on because you know, if the lights go off,
Speaker 3: then the neighbors can see that you're struggling. But if
Speaker 3: you can keep the lights on it, and if you
Speaker 3: can do the very very basic things like that, then
Speaker 3: people don't have to be so fuck am I shy
Speaker 3: about people knowing about this. There's a lot of people
Speaker 3: that feel really ashamed of not having enough electricity at home.
Speaker 3: One thing that people do is they all crowd into
Speaker 3: the living room and just heat up the living room together,
Speaker 3: and that functional overcrowding with everybody all together yeather or
Speaker 3: even sleeping in the living room means that it's easier
Speaker 3: for people to pass on colds and respiratory illness among
Speaker 3: the family, even though everyone feels a bit warmer and
Speaker 3: things can get a bit tense. So teenagers have told
Speaker 3: us that's a bit hard when they can't you spend
Speaker 3: time in their rooms as well.
Speaker 1: And I imagine this isn't a new issue either, is it?
Speaker 3: And no, this isn't. This is something that's been going
Speaker 3: on for a long time. And I think the improvements
Speaker 3: that we're making are very slow.
Speaker 4: And when you think about having to have a fun
Speaker 4: dinner of sandwiches and cereal because you're trying to save
Speaker 4: money to have power to keep them warm through the night,
Speaker 4: like that sounds like a lovely story to a lot
Speaker 4: of people, and it might even be Tarcherking, But for her,
Speaker 4: it's an absolute reality. What the story highlights is the
Speaker 4: impact that not having power has.
Speaker 1: What are some ways that people are almost punished when
Speaker 1: their power is cut off from power companies. I understand
Speaker 1: you almost get charged extra for reconnecting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So there are disconnection fees for a
Speaker 3: cost to the electricity company turning off your power if
Speaker 3: you have an outstanding bill and you get disconnected, and
Speaker 3: then there are often reconnection fees for having it turned
Speaker 3: back on, and those charges are really variable across different companies.
Speaker 3: And then also if you're using prepay metering, sometimes there
Speaker 3: are charges for checking the balance or topping that up
Speaker 3: as well. My view is that all of these charges
Speaker 3: are really quite unfair and they hurt the people who
Speaker 3: need support the most.
Speaker 1: Have you spoken to officials about this in your research?
Speaker 1: What has their response been.
Speaker 3: Yes, we've spoken to officials. We've spoken with electricity companies too.
Speaker 3: I would say that there's a growing understanding of the
Speaker 3: impact of these kinds of fees, and there's some movement
Speaker 3: towards reducing or even eliminating them. I would really like
Speaker 3: to see these eliminated and absorbed into the business costs
Speaker 3: of running an electricity retailing company, which is a company
Speaker 3: that's always selling an essential service that everyone is always
Speaker 3: going to need.
Speaker 1: The previous government introduced the Healthy Homes standards. Can you
Speaker 1: remind us of what that actually mandated?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: So, I guess the key things for this conversation is
Speaker 3: that insulation and the space heating needed to be brought
Speaker 3: up to a certain level. It's a little early to
Speaker 3: say exactly what the effect of the Healthy Home standards
Speaker 3: are so far, but for homes that have had their
Speaker 3: temperatures increased through having better heating and improve insulation, I
Speaker 3: would expect to see health improvements happening right now. We
Speaker 3: do know that there are problems with enforcing the standards
Speaker 3: because in a tight rental market, renters do not want
Speaker 3: to complain to their landlords, and now with no clause
Speaker 3: of actions coming back in, people prefer not to raise
Speaker 3: issues with their landlords about their rental housing quality so
Speaker 3: that they have a better chance of not having to
Speaker 3: move house, which is stressful and expensive for people. We
Speaker 3: also have to remember that these are minimum standards, so
Speaker 3: homes that meet the Healthy Home standards do not have
Speaker 3: to meet the minimum standards of the Building Code for
Speaker 3: new homes. So it's critical that we just keep raising
Speaker 3: the bar so that our housing needs less heating to
Speaker 3: keep us warm and healthy.
Speaker 1: How important is it that we continue to build houses
Speaker 1: to a quality standard to keep them warm.
Speaker 3: Our housing is relatively poor quality and our building standards
Speaker 3: are some of the weakest in the OECD. So when
Speaker 3: we measure indoor temperatures, what we find is that the
Speaker 3: indoor temperatures in new Zealand homes are really affected and
Speaker 3: tied quite closely what's happening with the outdoor temperatures. Our
Speaker 3: homes should be able to offer us better protection from
Speaker 3: the weather. We have the technology to be able to
Speaker 3: build to a much higher standard than the minimum Building
Speaker 3: Code standard, and if we continue to raise our expectations
Speaker 3: of what our homes can do for us, and keep
Speaker 3: raising those standards, then we should be able to kind
Speaker 3: of build this problem out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why does it seem like it's such a huge
Speaker 1: issue in New Zealand And that's a really good question.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure why we for so long haven't really
Speaker 3: valued properly the importance of being warm at home. And
Speaker 3: one of my frustrations is that when we look at
Speaker 3: the housing market, it seems often like we put more
Speaker 3: value on a nice done up kitchen or a new
Speaker 3: bathroom instead of is this a house that's going to
Speaker 3: be able to keep us warm in the winter and
Speaker 3: cool in the summer. And so one thing that we
Speaker 3: could do around that would be to introduce energy performance
Speaker 3: certificates that are used in some other countries, and these
Speaker 3: would help to tell people if they buy this house
Speaker 3: or if they rent this house, it's going to cost
Speaker 3: about this much to run it and to keep it
Speaker 3: to a comfortable and healthy temperature. I would really like
Speaker 3: to see a system like that put in place.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you've seen from other countries that
Speaker 1: you'd like to see implemented here.
Speaker 3: There are other things that we could do to support
Speaker 3: people that are experiencing energy hardship, things like you know
Speaker 3: we have the winter energy payment, but perhaps looking at
Speaker 3: other ways of charging for electricity, and there are some
Speaker 3: examples of that starting to pop up in New Zealand.
Speaker 3: I know we have Toast Electric in the Pornekey region
Speaker 3: where they have a subsidized model for customers that are
Speaker 3: experiencing hardship that are referred through budgeting agencies and they're
Speaker 3: supported from the profits from regular customers, so that operates
Speaker 3: as a not for profit system that electricity retailerant. So
Speaker 3: that's one thing that we could try more of and
Speaker 3: see how that works. And there are other things too
Speaker 3: that other countries do, like when it is particularly cold
Speaker 3: or particularly hot, they will have effectively a ban on
Speaker 3: disconnections during those periods to ensure that people are able
Speaker 3: to access heating or calling when they need it most.
Speaker 3: To support their health at home.
Speaker 1: Is it quite disappointing that heating your home and being
Speaker 1: warm is classed as a nice to have?
Speaker 3: Yes, I think it is not just disappointing, but it's
Speaker 3: also a bit of an economically silly position for us
Speaker 3: to take in New Zealand because ultimately this results in
Speaker 3: public costs. We see people going to hospital for housing
Speaker 3: related illnesses that are caused by cold, damp, and moldy homes.
Speaker 3: This is costing us collectively a lot of money. And
Speaker 3: if we just supported people to be warm at home,
Speaker 3: then it would provide them with more dignity and it
Speaker 3: would enable them to be warm and well at home.
Speaker 1: Previously on the front page, we've heard that New Zealand
Speaker 1: could save a billion dollars a year from having warm,
Speaker 1: healthy homes if homes are insulated even to what is
Speaker 1: quite a minimum standard.
Speaker 2: Overseas, children have fewer days of school and adults have
Speaker 2: more time for their employment, less sick days off work
Speaker 2: and so forth. So overall costs to society are about
Speaker 2: a billion dollars a year.
Speaker 1: About right to you, I think so.
Speaker 3: I think currently we're saving around billion dollars a year
Speaker 3: with programs like ECHOS Insulation program, the Healthy Home Standards
Speaker 3: and to FUTO orders Healthy Homes initiatives. So I think
Speaker 3: easily there's another billion dollars to be saved by doing
Speaker 3: even more, because the things that we've done have really
Speaker 3: been the minimum.
Speaker 1: And Kimberly, what would you like to see changed? What
Speaker 1: can power companies do and what can they bring to
Speaker 1: the table to kind of alleviate this issue.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is a lot more that we
Speaker 3: could be doing to increase the efficiency of our homes
Speaker 3: and build out the problem of energy hardship. And at
Speaker 3: the same time, we could be supporting people to have
Speaker 3: better access to electricity at home, better supporting those people
Speaker 3: who are finding it difficult to pay their bills, and
Speaker 3: we could do other things to enable people to access
Speaker 3: off wadable renewable energy, including solar PV that would really help,
Speaker 3: particularly for those people that are home during the day.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Kimberly. That's it for this episode
Speaker 1: of The Front Page. You can read more about today's
Speaker 1: stories and extensive news coverage at enzedherld dot co dot z.
Speaker 1: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles with sound
Speaker 1: engineer Patti Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front
Speaker 1: page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
Speaker 1: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.