WEBVTT - Broken trust, political divides and the world getting weirder — 2025 debriefed 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:06.000 Giuda. 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:09.039 I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:17.160 daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. From geopolitical 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.000 friction and climate chaos to a cost of living crisis 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.000 and consequences for a hukker heard around the world. 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.760 Twenty twenty five has been a huge year for news. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.440 Trump's return to the White House, sparks, trade wars, artificial 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.600 intelligence is getting well more intelligent, and we're rounding out 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.479 the year with no end in sight for wars in 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.400 Ukraine and Gaza. There's a lot to un pack for 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.320 our final episode of the year, and who better to 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.720 join me for a breakdown than two people behind the 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:53.280 scenes of every episode you listen to or watch every day. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.920 Today on the Front Page, our producers, Richard Martin and Jane. 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.920 Yee are here to wrap up the year that what. 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:03.800 So. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.600 Tom Phillips died after a shootout with. 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.080 Police in September after one thousand, three hundred and fifty 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.440 eight days in the bush with his children. It was devastating. 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.959 It was a devastating end to a massive, near four 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:21.880 year long saga, but thankfully all three children were found. 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.120 There's an inquiry underway at the moment Jane. A whole 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.800 lot of questions remain about how he was even able 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.600 to evade police at the time with his three children 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.200 for so long. What do you make of these whole events. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.760 It was a really interesting experience for me, being relatively 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.320 new to the newsroom and that breaking in the morning 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.840 and us sort of going, hey, lets it down to 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:45.520 pure and see what's going on. 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.840 It was a longer drive than we imagine. We got 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.280 down there and it was kind of it was just 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.720 quite a weird vibe. I found. It was a lot 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:55.960 quieter than I expected. 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.559 I expected a lot of locals, a lot of police present, 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.320 none of that. It was just like PGG writes, and 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.320 was shut and there was some tape across the front door, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:05.840 and that was that. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.600 It was very very quiet, and it. 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.640 Seemed really in contrast to all the fervor of the 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.800 coverage that was going on and had been going on, 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.280 you know, throughout this time. But it's also, you know, 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.360 a strange story, because they'd be a sighting and then 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:23.880 there'd be a story, and then it would go quiet 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.120 for such a long time, and I guess in the 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.160 public you just sort of you forget about it until 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.200 it's in your in your face again and when you 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.320 read out how many days they were in the bush, 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:34.520 it's quite astounding. 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.520 Yeah, it's incredible. It was four years nearly. 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.720 Being there in the small town, you get the sense 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:42.680 that there was just this relief that it was over, 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.440 and like because we went into stores to talk to 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.320 people about it, and like no one really wanted to 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.320 say anything, because it's like the nature of it is that, like, 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.079 you know, there's not much else going on down there 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:54.840 for the last four years, and like I'm sure there 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:59.440 were seck of journalists and reporters and everything showing our 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.080 basketing quis about this thing. Also for so long, it's like, well, 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.600 I've got nothing else to say about it because we 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.400 don't know anything. And now that the story like finally 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.880 came to a close, I just yet got the sense 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.799 that there was just relief that they weren't going to 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:16.000 be bothered anymore about us. 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.520 But also, I mean, the questions remain around if he 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.280 was helped. We can only we can only speculate until 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.120 you know, more information comes to light. 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.880 Which could be along you know, a really a few time. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.640 If ever, certainly we know there are details that will 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.200 be likely to be suppressed and we may never know, 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:40.080 you know, so it's hard to you know, we're going 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.880 down there and applying our lens of what we read 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.720 the situation to be, but really unless those details come 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:48.000 to light, we don't actually know. 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.680 How was it for you because that was your first time, Chelsea, 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.640 going down there, and you know, this is a story 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.720 that you've covered a lot closely than the two of us, 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:58.520 and the four years that he's been missing. 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:03.280 Yeah, I think after four years, I kind of, you know, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.760 I would always when there would be a sighting or something, 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:10.920 I would do crosses with ABC Australia and other Australian 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.880 outfits and UK outfits about this story because the rest 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:19.000 of the world really could not understand how he was 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.760 gone with his three kids for so long. And I 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.400 remember the day actually that it came out that he 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.400 was allegedly involved in an aggravated robbery and I nearly 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.120 fell off my chair because it's like, A it was 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.279 a new sighting of him, and B what do you 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:40.560 mean an aggravated robbery and that CCTV footage coming out 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:45.240 as well. I also remember distinctly the moment that they 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.240 were all seen by Peak Hunters together and that was 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.240 the first time that the mother had seen all of 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:56.240 her three children together, and the relief versus how scared 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.160 she was for their safety but also relieved that they 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.520 were still a lyve. That was a huge moment I 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.799 think as well of that story. So thankfully they all 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.200 were found by police as well in the end. Another 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:13.200 massive story this year, a huge blow for the New 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:17.160 Zealand Police after a damning report into Jevin mcskimming, a 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.960 former deputy police commissioner. Allegations from a woman were seen 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.680 to be ignored are The report said ambitions of a 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:25.120 senior police. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.400 Officer were put above the interests of a vulnerable woman. 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.640 During the course of this investigation, of course, detectives found 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:37.159 child exploitation material and beastiality on his work devices. 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:39.240 How do you think police. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.719 Handled this, Jane, and how do you think they handled 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:43.080 it in the aftermath as well. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.320 I can only come at it purely from a public 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.839 perception point of view because I'm not an expert in 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:54.400 this area. But distrust that something like this puts in 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.560 the police I think can't be overstated. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.719 Like it it is a huge As you say, it's. 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.960 Difficult to know how you pr something I did notice 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.800 a lot of the rhetoric was around you know, let 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.360 this not detract from the fifteen thousand men and women 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.320 who are hard at work every day. And yes, while 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.960 that is true, I think you also have to very 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:19.040 much face hit on the fact that you know, this 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.120 was a shocking event, it was a scandal, It wonn't 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.760 handlebell And I'm kind of curious to see if there's 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.760 going to be some more threads that come out of this. 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:31.919 It feels inevitable there there will be. 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:33.680 Yeah, I mean, because this hasn't happened. 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:35.680 You know, this isn't the first time something like this 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:37.520 has happened with the police, Hey Richard. 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:38.760 Yeah, yeah, I mean totally. 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.839 And it's like, it is interesting to see how they 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.280 spend it each time, because I think that, like if 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.600 you watch the press conferences and everything that they've been 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.480 doing about it, they you know, you could say that 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.920 they've actually done a pretty good job of being like, yeah, 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:57.279 this was messed up, and you know that we've we've 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.640 dealt with it, we got rid of them, They've done 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.320 all this stuff. But then more and more that comes 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.360 out about the reports about how you know, the complainant 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.680 was prosecuted for harassment and all these things, and that 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:15.400 it's like, yeah, it's seeing the inner workings that it's like, oh, 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.119 this wasn't handled very well. And it's just there's always 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.800 a thing about like the fact that this guy felt 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:26.920 comfortable enough to access this sort of material on his work. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.440 Computer must have felt like quite invincible. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:30.239 Heye, totally. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.360 And it just shows and like this happens every time, 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.800 like so often when like you're a powerful man like 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:39.360 this is found to be doing something that like it 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.560 speaks to a culture of like how did you think 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:43.280 this was okay? 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.120 How did you get away with this? 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.040 What does it say about the wider culture that you 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:48.200 weren't worried about this? 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.240 What's just truly out the gate for me is the 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:56.320 idea that you know, very very shocking, the you know, 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.000 the kind of stuff that he had on his on 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.360 his computer was on the cloud wear river that he 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.160 had been EXI saying through work wild to think that 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:09.000 their investigation that really really nearly didn't happen, the internal investigation, 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.160 if they hadn't happened, none of this, none of that 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.760 would have come out either. So you know, there's various 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:18.680 layers and levels here, and it's kind of not good 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:19.400 for anyone. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.880 It's just not well. Another massive scandal this year. 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.880 Green Party MP and New Zealand's first non binary MP, 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.000 Benjamin Doyle, came into controversy this year when their private 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:38.640 Instagram account at Bible Belt Bossy Bussy Bussy was exposed 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.600 featuring the phrase bussy galore, captioning a slideshow that included 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.840 a photo of their child. Now this blew up online. 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.960 Winston Peters called them out online a triggered hate, including 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.280 death threats towards their family, their child, and they resigned 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:54.679 in September. 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.640 First off, I mean, what do you make of this? 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.280 And did you know the term bussy before any of 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:02.000 this came out? 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:02.960 Because I did not. 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:08.880 I had heard the term, But yeah, it is. There's 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:10.679 one side of this that it's just there's a very 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.400 strange world that we live in that you're hearing, like 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:17.920 Winston Peter's demanding explanations for what bussy is and things 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.559 like that, and so Benjamin Doyle having to come out 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:25.559 and do these press conferences explaining that bussy Galore is 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.960 a play on the pussy glore, the bond girl, and 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.439 that that's sort of an alter ego that they had 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:36.880 and all these things that it's like, it does sound ridiculous, 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:37.520 and I don't. 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.640 Sounds ridiculous in retrospect, and. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:41.280 It felt ridiculous at the time. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.360 I don't think that Benjamin Doyle as any kind of 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:45.839 pervert or anything like that. 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.640 There's certainly no evidence to that effect. Truthfully, it shows 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:55.440 to me just a generation to divide. Peter's trying to 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.440 figure out the Internet and like getting it wrong. But 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.559 they're being quite full on cons aequaenceance for an individual totally. 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:03.880 But then at the same time, there is the thing 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.760 of like when you're a politician, when you're entering the 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.160 public eye, you do have to like go through your 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.040 social media. Like it's just a fact of the day 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:13.880 and age we live in that you have to go 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:15.679 through a social media the prefind to promit. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.160 There's also you know, I think about like my kids 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.199 in the way that they talk, perhaps some of the 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.360 young people in the office here, I think none of us, 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.680 none of us could be politicians if this is the 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.840 standard pint which we have to live because of the 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.800 amount of just stuff you say that is just in 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.520 the modern day vernacular, they're you know, out of context. 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.920 I'm I'm not defending anything that is legitimately offensive. But 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:42.480 you know, there's also this argument around Benjamin Doyle being 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.320 part of a certain community where the language is used 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.679 in a different way, and it's an internal kind of 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.640 understanding between people that like those outside of that community. 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.280 Particularly someone like Winston Peter's is just not going. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:58.320 To get a big one in New Zealand politics this year. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.960 Let's talk about the Treaty principle spill. Obviously the huk 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.160 I heard around the world late last year, and then 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:10.320 this year several MPs that Awdiytt, Debbie Nadowapaka and were 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:15.079 suspended for twenty one days each MP Clark seven days. Previously, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.280 the longest suspension for an MP had been three days, 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.040 and that was given to former Prime Minister Robert Muldoon 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.599 for criticizing the speaker. That was back in the eighties. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.000 Do you think that twenty one days was far too harsh? 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.920 Yes, yeah, I think we're all in a creementer. 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.440 I just don't see how you can objectively say something 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:35.480 seven times. 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.160 You know, there's a lot of history. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.360 Seven times the previous record, it seems. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.360 A lot, and that the previous record was so long 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.440 ago as well, like it's really no one done anything 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.120 bad in parliament that is kind of you know, deserving 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.520 of a suspension for sitting. 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.839 You know, do you reckon the do you reckon? 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.600 The worldwide press of the Harker heard around the world 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:07.360 prompted such a severe warning or severe suspension. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:08.880 Yeah, I mean it did. 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.600 But like it's interesting though, because like so much of 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.720 the response to I mean, I guess, you know, my 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.560 social media algorithms are different from other people's, but like 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.199 the things I was saying were all like, oh my god, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.800 this is so cool. You know, Native New Zealanders are 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.440 like willing to stand up for this. But you know, 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.480 I'm sure there were people ar go on the other side, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.160 but I think yet that there were a lot of 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:37.520 eyes on that. And what was the response to it 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.360 going to be? I think twenty one days? And so 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.600 the fact that it's seven times the previous record is insane. 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:48.800 But there's a lot of that sort of parliamentary stuff, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.319 like because occasionally, you know, in the newsroom, we will 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.960 just have Parliament TV on in the background sometimesing and 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.240 you watch it and you actually sit down and watch it, 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.400 and there's a lot of like very sort of old 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.080 fashion and like the way that the amount of power 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.600 that the speaker holds, and like things like just insulting 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.079 the speaker can get you kicked out for three days 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.440 in the eighties. Is like, there's a lot of these 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.640 stuff that. Again, you know, you've said that we couldn't 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.120 be politicians, but I don't think i'd want to be, 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:17.280 to be. 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.000 Honest, No, it sounds pretty it sounds pretty full on 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.959 the I think, you know, when we went to. 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:28.440 The Privileges Committee and came you know, there's an argument 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.680 should the Privileges Committee be independent rather than parliamentary driven. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.160 It feels to me back to your question about you know, 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.160 the global attention that was on this, again hard to 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.880 say is a fact, but the sense to me is 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.559 that like it was highly embarrassing, you know, it was 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:51.280 highly embarrassing for the speaker, you know, making a mockery 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.719 of the parliamentary process and so on, and therefore this 0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:00.960 was the appropriate punishment. I tend to disagree. But the 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:03.280 other interesting thing was there was also a lot of 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.280 chat around. You know, they could have had a shorter 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.560 suspension had they apologized, and apparently it was just near 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.760 They were never asked to apologize. It was never suggested 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:15.959 in the Privileges Committee. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.120 Report that they should apologize. 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.120 So again you've got to kind of weed away at 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.240 all the details and just see exactly what it is 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:23.880 that's going on. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:33.360 And this year, obviously, we saw US President Donald Trump 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:39.160 push aggressive tariffs, sparking trade wars and an America first mindset. 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:44.000 All the while he ordered slashes to federal spending through DOGE, 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.160 which is something that I just wanted to say, it's 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:53.560 so weird to think. He also exited the Paris Agreement, 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.760 wanted to take over Greenland, and backed his health secretary 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.320 when he linked paracetamol use pregnancy to autism. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:05.400 That's all they want the ball on the ballroom of 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:06.120 course as well. 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:10.640 So first off, these tariffs obviously sent the world into 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.760 a tail spin. You know, leaders of every nation in 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.240 the world wanting to speak to Donald Trump about this. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.600 What do you think that says about how the US's 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.240 influence is still quite big? 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.880 Yeah, it's it is this annoying thing, Like you hear 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.360 the way that other countries talk about Donald Trump, and 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.120 it is like there's fear in it, you know, like 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.200 there's the thing just just sweet gone that the FIFA 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.960 at the drawer. They like made up a new prize 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.920 to be like and you get this that it's like 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.560 everyone just wants to keep them happy because the US 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.800 at the moment just feels so volatile and they're the 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.120 thing of the tariffs that like it was affected by 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:59.600 like personal grudges between Donald Trump and the world leader 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:01.440 of sending country that they would say, oh, well we're 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.440 going to do reciprocal tariffs or something like that, and 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:07.520 he's like, well, then I'm going to increase yours kids. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.400 Playing a board game, you know what I mean, And 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.160 they're making up the rules as they go along. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:12.760 It is. 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.960 It's a wild world that we live in at the moment. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:22.880 But I think you're being on. People don't necessarily necessarily 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.360 respect him, but they fear him because he does. He 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.600 does have power. And I think Donald Trump is far 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:32.680 more clever than people give him credit for. I think 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.120 he knows what he's doing in a lot of ways. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.640 He comes across as you know. 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.240 That he doesn't always know what he's doing, and you know, 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:45.760 and I think there is an argument there are people 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.920 talking about perhaps he's in cognitive decline. 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.240 I think both things could be true. I think he can. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.160 Be very powerful and kind of know how to work people, 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.160 know how to divert the conversation and all of those 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.360 things for a specific purpose, not just because he's ant, 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.480 but because he knows what he's doing. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:04.600 But I think he can also can be a bit of. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.360 An idea well, Like the thing about him is and 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.400 that he knows how to work a crowd. If you've 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.720 ever actually sat down and watched one of his rallies, 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.679 like because the thing is that you you see all 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.399 these clips out of context and it's like, oh, he 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.199 said the craziest thing, and you know, a lot of 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.800 it is insane, but he has this ability to tap 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.919 into like exactly what a crowd wants to hear that like, 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.840 and you know, for editing purposes and things like that. 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.240 I've sat down and watched like a forty minute hour 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:38.960 long rally of his and the way that he plays 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:40.679 off a grad more, I would say, more so in 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.080 twenty sixteen twenty twenty, I think he has lost a 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.240 bit of his speed, which you know, whether or not 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.919 it's cognitive declined, it comes with aging and also the 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:51.600 stress of being president, I'm sure. 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.840 And also not having to go on an election trail again. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.200 Really yeah, yeah, right, like you do as much as 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.280 you can be out there. 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:01.560 As you like, because this is your last year. 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.440 This is yeah, because we started off with the inauguration 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.320 this year, which seems so like so long ago. But 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.520 all of the tech bros in the front row, those 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.480 images of all of them, I mean. 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.719 Do you reckon that they've all stuck around? 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.280 Like obviously the famous one is. 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.280 It's crazy to think that in twenty twenty five, there 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.320 was a period of about six months where I heard 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.720 the name Elon Musk every day and. 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.200 It was like, oh, yeah, he's doing some other thing. 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.720 You have to email Elon Musk five things you've done 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.240 that week? That like, it's crazy that all the stuff 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:35.840 was this year. 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.920 But then email and five things you've done this. 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.560 Because he was in charge of the shopping that you 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:46.120 had to you had to send through what what were 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.880 five things you you did in last week to prove 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:55.399 your productive because nothing, you know, promotes productivity by like 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.960 adding a useless bit of admin wik. 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.200 Yeah. But yeah, there was like all these things. 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.360 And then like the Doge contract because of things about 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.159 let because he was an elected official, there was like 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.200 all these different things about that. The contract was only 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.000 going to be for a certain amount of time, and 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.200 then when it finished, it seemed like they didn't end 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.000 on the best of terms, because you know, it ended 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.840 with Elon Musk just tweeting Trump is and the Epstein 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:19.240 files that's why they won't be released. 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.800 Have fun with that, that's right. And then I think 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:26.320 that was later deleted, but was done. The damage was done. 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:27.840 And you know, obviously that's been another lot of the 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:28.720 big stories of the year. 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:39.080 Now, a standout TV show this year was a four 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:40.000 part series. 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:41.919 It was on Netflix. It was a drama. It was 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:43.080 called Adolescents. 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.800 Not only for its performances and how each episode was 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.239 actually filmed in a single take, which is extraordinary if 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.199 you've watched it, I just couldn't believe that that was 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:58.600 a thing, but also for the conversations around you know, 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:03.480 its release social media role in youth radicalization, for example, 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:08.240 the manner sphere, parental blind spots. Also when it comes 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.040 to kids online, what do you guys make of those conversations? 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:13.680 And Jane, this one's for you. 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:17.119 Because you do have children of an age who are online. 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.240 Yeah, yeah, and it's though they honestly could be anywhere 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.600 from two these days in Australia, they. 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.000 Can still be online. 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:27.880 No. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.200 Yeah, I've got a fifteen and a half year old boy, 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:36.200 so right in that space, and I haven't watched it, 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.560 and I've deliberately not watched it because I know it 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:44.280 will really disturb and upset me, and that, I guess 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.119 maybe makes me one of those people who has blinkers on. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.600 But I don't feel like like I've seen the conversation, 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.280 and I don't feel like I need to watch the 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.800 kind of very harrowing thing to know what it's about 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.240 and to engage in the conversations around it. 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:00.080 It's a little bit. 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.359